Most priests know far more about marriage than most married people do

[PeterT]

Most married people know about precisely one marriage, their own. And some people in these marriages really haven’t put their shoulder into their own marriages, and so they know surprisingly little about even their own marriage.

What really upsets people is to realize that counter to the secular/dissenter myth, most priests know more about marriage than nearly any married person, who only knows - at best - about their own marriage.

You keep repeating this, that at BEST a husband or wife only knows about their own marriage. That’s a simplistic statement that is fundamentally false. Most married people know quite well at least two marriages: their own and that of their parents.

In fact bad habits and bad attitudes of a husband or wife is often picked up from what they saw in their own parents’ behavior.

Also — depending on the circumstances — a married person might know well the circumstances of other people’s marriages too: their aunts or uncles, their siblings marriage, and the marriages of their very close friends.

That said, you do make a good point that most parish priest probably have a far wider perspective on marriage for all your reasons you’ve already stated. So you shouldn’t weaken your point by repeating a basically false statement, that a married person only knows one marriage well: their own. Most people know well the marriage of their parents too (for better or for worse), and some even more than that.

 

[Edward_H]

You keep repeating this, that at BEST a husband or wife only knows about their own marriage. That’s a simplistic statement that is fundamentally false. Most married people know quite well at least two marriages: their own and that of their parents.

The only marriage that a married couple knows about is their own (+1 over the priest).
A priest knows about his own parent’s marriage just as a married couple does! (add ZERO for the married couple).
But a priest knows about hundreds of marriages. (add hundreds for the priest).

 

[gracepoole]

Others have also (rightly) pointed out that priests aren’t exposed to many intimate details that spouses choose not to share with them. The best you can possibly assert is that priests know some details, spouses know some, and perhaps no party knows all.

Yes, priests are trained in matters of the spiritual life, taught about human virtues in great detail, taught to listen for defects, taught how to suggest resolutions, etc. This is why spouses should turn to priests for advice. They should also recognize that priests aren’t going to provide every answer. In no way does that diminish what priests offer. It’s reality.

 

[gracepoole]

It’s pretty incredible that many here report having happy and successful marriages despite the fact that they reject the all-or-nothing claim made in the OP. Either we’re all living in fantasies that don’t correlate with reality or the original claim is flawed.

 

[Edward_H]

And I just reminded someone else that in this very thread someone, other than me, pointed out that some spouses share with a priest details they don’t even share with this spouse.

So on the intimacy points, it’s even. Some do/some don’t. but then add all the experience that priests get that married couples have NO way of getting.

 

[Edward_H]

There aren’t that many on this thread. It’s quite a very very very limited sample.

 

[gracepoole]

The fact that any exist seem to highlight a flawed premise.

 

[Xantippe]

I know his schedule very well. He gives 4 recollections a week, each recollection has about 30 men, or 30 women, most seek confession before, or in the break in the middle, or afterward. Assume only 20 men or 20 women do…that’s 80 just in the recollections…he spends several hours on Friday and Saturdays in the box…so another 30 each day…plus walkins, the people who live with him, other people who seek him for spiritual direction normally get a confession too…yes…well over 150 easily a week.

That sounds like a specialist.

Most mechanics know a lot more about the inner workers of a car than race drivers let alone normal car drivers.

Priests aren’t marriage specialists in the same sense that mechanics are car specialists.

Priests are exposed to far more situations and cases each week, more hearing of problems than any married couple.

They are exposed to very intimate details that - as others have pointed out above in this very thread - aren’t communicated EVEN to their own spouse!

Although particular priests might be especially gifted, the average priest doesn’t necessarily have a lot of insight into how to resolve a marital disagreement, how to get a spouse to do something that he or she does not wish to do, or how to do a budget and stick to it, share a home and parent together. For something like that, it’s helpful to have experience doing those specific things.

I think you underestimate how much of a happy home depends on having particular skills and systems.

They are trained in matters of the spiritual life, in depth; they are taught about the human virtues in great detail, they are taught how to “listen for the dominant defect”; how to suggest resolutions to help people work on their defects, how to prioritize defects, etc.

Marriage is about two different people working together to accomplish common goals–getting two people to cooperate is quite different than tinkering with the innards of one of them, although it might be necessarily.

And I just reminded someone else that in this very thread someone, other than me, pointed out that some spouses share with a priest details they don’t even share with this spouse.

Some do, some don’t.

There aren’t that many on this thread. It’s quite a very very very limited sample.

The same is true of who shows up at confession–it’s a limited sample.

 

[Edward_H]

huh? sorry my standards of evidence and proof are a lot higher. I’m not as easily swayed.

 

[gracepoole]

And you deny outright experience that married couples share that priests don’t have? I don’t know you and your marriage, and you don’t know me and mine. I’m quite comfortable asserting that we both have experiences the other doesn’t. Why is this such a distasteful reality? What would it mean to accept this? What part of the sky will fall?

 

[Edward_H]

Although particular priests might be especially gifted, the average priest doesn’t necessarily have a lot of insight into how to resolve a marital disagreement, how to get a spouse to do something that he or she does not wish to do, or how to do a budget and stick to it, share a home and parent together. For something like that, it’s helpful to have experience doing those specific things.

Proof? Where’s the substantiation for this sweeping assertion? It’s false.

 

[gracepoole]

But you don’t offer evidence and proof. You offer conjecture.

 

[Edward_H]

I have offered many examples. And better, I’ve offered facts that can be reasoned over…that in a confessional, under the seal of confession, one is exposed to intimate details and importantly motives of action that aren’t commonly or as frequently surfaced anywhere.

 

[gracepoole]

That’s not evidence. That’s conjecture. You don’t really know what happens in every confessional, you can’t say what “most priests” know or don’t know, and your claim can’t be substantiated as a result.

 

[Edward_H]

I think you underestimate how much of a happy home depends on having particular skills and systems.

No, In fact, I’ve pointed out that the very skills and insights a priest has can help him make suggestions to one or both of the spouses about developing 'particular skills and systems".

A priest might say…“have you tried to offer up the annoyance you sense as a gift to God? He might also have reason to be a bit annoyed with you at times, no?..so offer that moment up as an act of reparation for all the times that you slept in while your wife took care of the family on Saturday morning…offer it up as an act of love for your wife, who has brought life into the world with you…do it”.

A good priest has hundreds of such points and nudges, and can get them across with a smile and a push.

 

[Elizabeth3]

I know his schedule very well. He gives 4 recollections a week, each recollection has about 30 men, or 30 women, most seek confession before, or in the break in the middle, or afterward. Assume only 20 men or 20 women do…that’s 80 just in the recollections…he spends several hours on Friday and Saturdays in the box…so another 30 each day…plus walkins, the people who live with him, other people who seek him for spiritual direction normally get a confession too…yes…well over 150 easily a week.

Our parish priests see likely 75-100 a week…3 hours on Saturday nonstop…1.5 hours on Wednesday, 1 hour on Tuesday, before Daily Mass, hospital hours, during office hours.

Easily.

That’s highly unusual compared to most parishes.

 

[Edward_H]

I agree. He’s over 80 and never stops working or smiling. He gave me the
best marital advice I’ve ever heard anywhere, almost off the top of his head.

He said, smiling, “it’s much simpler than that. Your job is to make (mentioning my wife’s name who he also knows) the happiest woman on the face of the earth - every day!” continuing to smile, as is his way.

And he was so right.

When I focus on her true happiness I have no time to engage in self pity, selfishness, worry, ‘my needs’, you name it.

God makes it simple not necessarily easy but quite surprisingly joyful.

 

[Elizabeth3]

That’s highly unusual compared to most parishes.

I agree. He’s over 80 and never stops working or smiling. He gave me the

best marital advice I’ve ever heard anywhere, almost off the top of his head.

That’s great but my point was that that is not “most” priests. Two parishes in my area have one priest each and they each have 1/2 hr scheduled for confession per week. A third parish offers confession 1 hr each week for one priest.

Like I said, some priests can be really great at offering marriage advice and counseling. They should not be overlooked as a source of help just because they aren’t married. Other priests, not so much.

 

[Edward_H]

You’d be surprised at how much time the average priest spends in the box whether the box is his confessional or whether it’s his office or the curbside. Or hospital room.

A great service and a great tool for his learning the pastoral arts.

 

[Xantippe]

Proof? Where’s the substantiation for this sweeping assertion? It’s false.

I’m pretty confident saying that the average priest is not going to be the go-to person for figuring out how to do a budget for a large family or figuring out how to solve parenting problems or how to most effectively renovate a house–because he’s not a specialist in those areas.

For help with those problems, it would make the most sense to listen to or go to a specialist in those subject areas.

I have no doubt that choosing among solutions and executing them will involve a lot of virtue on the part of the spouses, but a couple additionally needs actual subject area expertise, not free floating disembodied virtue. Naked virtue alone will not tell you whether to spank or use a time out or ignore the disagreement with a child or go for a psychological evaluation, or how much you can safely borrow for a house, or how much to spend on the kids’ activities.

Again, skills are very important.