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TechieGuy
Guest
Surely you aren’t suggesting that non Catholics are incapable of love?
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Most priests know far more about marriage than most married people do
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Edward_H
Guest
No. I’m saying that the source of their love is God, spiritually and physically present in the Eucharist. Even though they don’t receive, the world benefits mystically from the presence of Jesus in the Mass and in the Tabernacles.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
“Subclass of cranks” now is it?
You say nothing intellectual about acts of charity, demonstrations of patience, acts of unity, acts of self-denial, acts open to life. By the very fact that you are speaking in generalities you make them abstract.
You say nothing intellectual about acts of charity, demonstrations of patience, acts of unity, acts of self-denial, acts open to life. By the very fact that you are speaking in generalities you make them abstract.
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Edward_H
Guest
Preposterous.
I think what is going on here is a bit of lasciviousness. There’s a crowd of people that that really do want to get into their own personal stories and issues…sort of in a sharing/gossipy way…they want names, dates, and other personal details.
Anything that stops short of titillating details is characterized as intellectualism or generalities or abstractions.
It’s clearer now what you want.
I think what is going on here is a bit of lasciviousness. There’s a crowd of people that that really do want to get into their own personal stories and issues…sort of in a sharing/gossipy way…they want names, dates, and other personal details.
Anything that stops short of titillating details is characterized as intellectualism or generalities or abstractions.
It’s clearer now what you want.
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ConstantLearner
Guest
“Routine kiss” is very abstract. What, exactly, is a “routine kiss?”There’s nothing intellectually abstract about “no routine kisses”…
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Edward_H
Guest
I describe the meaning above, with about 5 examples.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
That’s it for me. I wont tolerate insults.It’s clearer now what you want.
God bless you. I am done here.
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Elizabeth3
Guest
Obviously. You seem to relish disagreement for the sake of “winning” the argument.I can’t wait for the howls
Most married people know a lot about their own marriage and have been privy to a good amount of sharing from family, friends, co-workers & acquaintances about their own not to mention a lot personal observation and experience as the decades pass.Most married people know about precisely one marriage, their own.
There are always people who are a little clueless about personal relationships due to a variety of reasons.And some people in these marriages really haven’t put their shoulder into their own marriages,…
YesGood priests sit in confessions…anywhere they wear their collar they are open to be being asked to hear someone’s confession.
And what do they hear in confessions - and in spiritual direction and in marriage counseling sessions they may hold - they hear about married life in all of its marvelous good and ugly details.
They hear about our excuses, our self-justifications, our struggles, our lies,…our selfishness, our hopes, our desire to begin again, and again.
They often hear details about one’s marital relationship that some spouses don’t even discuss with their own spouses.
Sure. They aren’t in an intimate relationship with one specific person who they’ve fathered biological children with and raised them through all stages of growth, living in the same household, for 25 + years.They may not know about a few aspects of married life
…thousands might be an overestimation. They may hear of great detail from some couples, or from only one side of the equation or some people might share more generally but yes, priests do often hear from married people who are seeking advice about their marriages .but they hear and learn about thousands of marriages in great detail.
They, most likely, know about a broader range of issues that affect many marriages and may hear about some more private things that some people wouldn’t discuss with anyone but a priest. A lot of this is probably pretty subjective when you get down to individual priests though. They, like the rest of the Body of Christ, have a broad range of personalities, age, experience and open-ness. Some priests are more approachable than others so they would have more experience than ones who, just by their personality, age or even time demands, most people wouldn’t feel comfortable talking to or trust their ability to give good advice.They know in ways married people will never know.
A lot of priests can be an excellent source of advice or guidance for marriage and shouldn’t be discounted just because they aren’t married themselves. On the other hand, I wouldn’t say that every priest will always be a sure bet to handle all your marriage counseling.
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Edward_H
Guest
A good priest probably hears more than 50 confessions a week.
The priest that I know best hears probably more than hundred every week.
The priest that I know best hears probably more than hundred every week.
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Elizabeth3
Guest
In your estimation. Have you ever asked him? That seems a little high. That would be anywhere from 8-15 confessions a day, year round. How much time could they possibly spend listening to people in “great detail” along with all the other responsibilities in running a parish?A good priest probably hears more than 50 confessions a week.
The priest that I know best hears probably more than hundred every week.
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AugustTherese
Guest
It is only by, with, and through the Eucharist that provides real, sacramental intimacy and graces within a marriage!While Eucharist is also an intimate sacrament, it also cannot be compared to marriage to another mortal human being in a way that provides insight into marriage
“The entire Christian life bears the mark of the spousal love of Christ and the Church. Already Baptism, the entry into the People of God, is a nuptial mystery; it is so to speak the nuptial bath. which precedes the wedding feast, the Eucharist. Christian marriage in its turn becomes an efficacious sign, the sacrament of the covenant of Christ and the Church. Since it signifies and communicates grace, marriage between baptized persons is a true sacrament of the New Covenant.” CCC -1617
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Edward_H
Guest
I know his schedule very well. He gives 4 recollections a week, each recollection has about 30 men, or 30 women, most seek confession before, or in the break in the middle, or afterward. Assume only 20 men or 20 women do…that’s 80 just in the recollections…he spends several hours on Friday and Saturdays in the box…so another 30 each day…plus walkins, the people who live with him, other people who seek him for spiritual direction normally get a confession too…yes…well over 150 easily a week.
Our parish priests see likely 75-100 a week…3 hours on Saturday nonstop…1.5 hours on Wednesday, 1 hour on Tuesday, before Daily Mass, hospital hours, during office hours.
Easily.
Our parish priests see likely 75-100 a week…3 hours on Saturday nonstop…1.5 hours on Wednesday, 1 hour on Tuesday, before Daily Mass, hospital hours, during office hours.
Easily.
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Edward_H
Guest
GREAT quote.
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AugustTherese
Guest
Thanks! I do not mean to be abrasive towards anyone on this thread, but it saddens and baffles me how people, inadvertently or wittingly, are alluding to this idea that the Sacrament of Marriage is somehow more intimate than Holy Orders, and/or even Holy Communion!!! There is absolutely nothing more intimate than our union with God in the Eucharist, absolutely nothing! Any real and sacramental intimacy in any sacramental marriage flows from the source of all intimacy, the self-giving of Our Blessed Lord on the Altar for us to be One with Him.
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gracepoole
Guest
Priests have knowledge that often can help married couples. Married couples have unique experiences that likely are foreign to some extent to priests.
Why is it impossible for these two realities to co-exist? Why the dogmatic insistence that priests know far more about marriage? Folks have already acknowledged that priests can be an important part of successful marriages. Continuously asserting that married couples really don’t know jack about their own relationships is just…ignorant. And demanding others agree with the assertion that it’s all or nothing – agree that priests know more about marriage or admit we’re all idiots regarding marriage – is to demand that people accept a logical fallacy.
Why is it impossible for these two realities to co-exist? Why the dogmatic insistence that priests know far more about marriage? Folks have already acknowledged that priests can be an important part of successful marriages. Continuously asserting that married couples really don’t know jack about their own relationships is just…ignorant. And demanding others agree with the assertion that it’s all or nothing – agree that priests know more about marriage or admit we’re all idiots regarding marriage – is to demand that people accept a logical fallacy.
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Edward_H
Guest
Why the strength of my point?
Because it’s true. They do know more about marriage than most married people.
Most mechanics know a lot more about the inner workers of a car than race drivers let alone normal car drivers.
That doesn’t mean that married people may not know much about their own marriage…they may. But most married people don’t know that much about other people’s marriages.
So my statement is the truth.
There need not be some sort of false, fuzzy wuzzy…can’t everything be equal softening of a wonderful truth, and available resource.
Because it’s true. They do know more about marriage than most married people.
Most mechanics know a lot more about the inner workers of a car than race drivers let alone normal car drivers.
That doesn’t mean that married people may not know much about their own marriage…they may. But most married people don’t know that much about other people’s marriages.
So my statement is the truth.
There need not be some sort of false, fuzzy wuzzy…can’t everything be equal softening of a wonderful truth, and available resource.
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Xantippe
Guest
Right. You can and will get real time feedback from your spouse.But what is missing is the daily face to face, in the flesh encounter with something that is not a matter of faith and belief so much as it is another person who can give us immediate response whether we desire it or not.
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gracepoole
Guest
Except it’s not true. Multiple people have demonstrated why it’s a faulty claim. You seem to be completely resistant to hearing anyone else’s views and even entertaining the possibility that they may have merit. Worse, you claim that if anyone disagrees with your assertion, their marriage clearly is not solid. It takes a certain sort of audacity to make such a declaration.
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Xantippe
Guest
Names and dates???There’s a crowd of people that that really do want to get into their own personal stories and issues…sort of in a sharing/gossipy way…they want names, dates, and other personal details.
I don’t know about “titillating,” but there’s a level of abstraction that does make the reader wonder if the writer knows what he is talking about.Anything that stops short of titillating details is characterized as intellectualism or generalities or abstractions.
Yes–priests and laypeople, single and married.There are always people who are a little clueless about personal relationships due to a variety of reasons.
Yeah.Sure. They aren’t in an intimate relationship with one specific person who they’ve fathered biological children with and raised them through all stages of growth, living in the same household, for 25 + years.
Right. And they might never get to the bottom of what was going on, just for incomplete information.…thousands might be an overestimation. They may hear of great detail from some couples, or from only one side of the equation or some people might share more generally but yes, priests do often hear from married people who are seeking advice about their marriages .
Right.A lot of this is probably pretty subjective when you get down to individual priests though. They, like the rest of the Body of Christ, have a broad range of personalities, age, experience and open-ness. Some priests are more approachable than others so they would have more experience than ones who, just by their personality, age or even time demands, most people wouldn’t feel comfortable talking to or trust their ability to give good advice.
Yes.On the other hand, I wouldn’t say that every priest will always be a sure bet to handle all your marriage counseling.
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Edward_H
Guest
No one has touched the argument. Look back. Show the work. It’s you that’s resistant.
Priests are exposed to far more situations and cases each week, more hearing of problems than any married couple.
They are exposed to very intimate details that - as others have pointed out above in this very thread - aren’t communicated EVEN to their own spouse!
They are trained in matters of the spiritual life, in depth; they are taught about the human virtues in great detail, they are taught how to “listen for the dominant defect”; how to suggest resolutions to help people work on their defects, how to prioritize defects, etc.
They are taught how Original Sin can cloud the intellect of a person, how sin can weaken the will to pursue the good, etc.
No one has touched these points.
Priests are exposed to far more situations and cases each week, more hearing of problems than any married couple.
They are exposed to very intimate details that - as others have pointed out above in this very thread - aren’t communicated EVEN to their own spouse!
They are trained in matters of the spiritual life, in depth; they are taught about the human virtues in great detail, they are taught how to “listen for the dominant defect”; how to suggest resolutions to help people work on their defects, how to prioritize defects, etc.
They are taught how Original Sin can cloud the intellect of a person, how sin can weaken the will to pursue the good, etc.
No one has touched these points.
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