Most priests know far more about marriage than most married people do

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A doctorate makes you an authority in your particular specialty. It does not make you an expert on everything.

Or more generally, smart is area specific. Being smart in one fi
Actually, it really doesn’t even do this. Mine gave me so much experience in designing experiments that it helps me evaluate the approach to experimentation - the rigor - to experiments in just about any field. In the end experimentation is about good logic.
 
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Mine gave me so much experience in designing experiments that it helps me evaluate the approach to experimentation - the rigor - to experiments in just about any field. In the end experimentation is about good logic.
How did you establish that neither childbirth nor breastfeeding is that painful?
 
Come to think of it, how did you establish that it’s possible to train newborns to be patient and wait to be fed?
 
I never said it can’t be painful. But lots and lots of things in life are painful. Being in an IED blast is painful, humping a 120 pound pack in the desert for 25 miles at force march pace is painful, watching your son undergo biopsy is painful.

But we don’t need to make a big deal of these things…we don’t need to turn everything into a point of “identity politics”, “only the breast feeders know!!!”, etc. It’s below a hardy Christian to make such a stinking fuss over such naturally occurring events. It’s trying to seek “internet commenter” power. And it’s embarrassing…or it should be so embarrassing that it causes one to temper their tendencies.

I said waiting 30 seconds isn’t that big a deal, and you spent 20 posts trying to tell me without success that it was. That tells me you’re more interested in winning internet points than arriving at truth in its full.
 
I said waiting 30 seconds isn’t that big a deal,
30 seconds for what?

How do you get from an inappropriate location to an appropriate location in 30 seconds with a baby and all accoutrements, including perhaps other small children? And where is this magical appropriate location? Is it like the secret room in Harry Potter that appears whenever you need it?
I never said it can’t be painful. But lots and lots of things in life are painful. Being in an IED blast is painful, humping a 120 pound pack in the desert for 25 miles at force march pace is painful, watching your son undergo biopsy is painful.

But we don’t need to make a big deal of these things…we don’t need to turn everything into a point of “identity politics”, “only the breast feeders know!!!”, etc. It’s below a hardy Christian to make such a stinking fuss over such naturally occurring events. It’s trying to seek “internet commenter” power. And it’s embarrassing…or it should be so embarrassing that it causes one to temper their tendencies.
It doesn’t actually make sense to take that approach. The Bible is not a document produced by especially stoic people–our Hebrew relatives are not famous for their stiff upper lip. David complained a lot (see the Psalms). Jeremiah complained A LOT (see Jeremiah and Lamentations). Job complained. St. Paul complained. And they all got into the Bible. Plus, there’s a lot of stuff in the Bible about childbirth–it’s a requiring biblical metaphor for suffering for a good purpose. (See St. Paul in Galatians 4:19, where he’s talking about himself suffering the pains of childbirth for his readers until Christ is fully formed in them.) So it’s weird to be as dismissive as you have been, because it’s not even biblical–childbirth is the biblical writer’s go-to image for severe pain.

Besides that, talking about our experiences is essential for figuring out what the situation is and how to do things better next time. If we don’t talk and think, we’ll just keep doing the exact same dumb things over and over again.
 
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You should read St Paul to get a better sense for the life of the early Christians, how joyful they were, how striving they were.

And read the life of the early fathers.

It’s a shame.
 
You should read St Paul to get a better sense for the life of the early Christians, how joyful they were, how striving they were.
St. Paul is joyful–and he also complains a fair bit. Both of those things are true.

Some thoughts on complaining about distress:
  1. If the complaint is true, then it’s true, and that truth has value and utility. You would not believe how many young women go into motherhood believing that labor won’t hurt much if you breathe correctly and think happy thoughts or that breastfeeding will be immediately easy and idyllic or any number of unrealistic ideas. It is helpful if people go into new experiences with more realistic expectations, and this is more feasible if people are frank about their experiences.
  2. If somebody is in severe distress and expresses their distress, it’s more likely that they will be noticed and helped. If they are in severe distress but don’t express it, it’s more likely that they will be overlooked and neglected. Day to day, it’s harder to deal with my more expressive older child, but at the same time, it’s very unlikely that she has any troubles I don’t know about. Day to day, it’s easier to deal with our more stoic child, but at the same time, if he has any serious trouble, I might not realize it. There are trade-offs.
  3. Within marriage, it’s important to know what is going on with one’s spouse in order to do one’s duty to them. You may find it difficult to believe, but I am from an uber-WASP background and I was brought up to believe that the 11th commandment was THOU SHALT NOT COMPLAIN. There was a time where this caused some misunderstandings in my marriage, as my husband is ethnic and has virtually no unexpressed sensations. Hence, if I wasn’t keeping up a steady stream of complaints, he didn’t realize that I was in distress. I’ve gotten more expressive, as I realized that my family-of-origin stoicism was not doing our marriage any favors.
I can’t overemphasize how important knowledge is in marriage, and what a gift it is to make sure that one’s spouse understands the situation at home.
 
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But we don’t need to make a big deal of these things…we don’t need to turn everything into a point of “identity politics”, “only the breast feeders know!!!”, etc. It’s below a hardy Christian to make such a stinking fuss over such naturally occurring events
The question at hand is "Who should bear the pain or inconvenience, if you will, in a particular situation? Should the man bear the inconvenience or awkwardness he may feel when a mother needs to feed her child by having to avert his eyes or should it be the woman who is already pained by engorgement/letdown and the baby by hunger pangs, who should also bear responsibility for the man’s comfort by finding a place to hide herself because he might have an impure thought by her doing something that is not in the least sinful?
 
The question at hand is "Who should bear the pain or inconvenience, if you will, in a particular situation? Should the man bear the inconvenience or awkwardness he may feel when a mother needs to feed her child by having to avert his eyes or should it be the woman who is already pained by engorgement/letdown and the baby by hunger pangs, who should also bear responsibility for the man’s comfort by finding a place to hide herself because he might have an impure thought by her doing something that is not in the least sinful?
Yes. We hear a lot about how much Catholic men and fathers want to do for women–how they want to guard us and protect us, how much they cherish the unborn and little children, how eager they are to fight for us, how their hearts thrill with chivalry and desire to sacrifice for us, etc., etc.

But then it turns out that some Catholic men can’t even cope with being in the same room as a nursing baby, and all of those other promises start sounding pretty hollow.
 
We need more “what’s that?” in our dialog, shrugging off the normal ordinary difficulties of life.

Not all pain harms us.
Not every offense needs to be commented on, much less elevated to the city hall, or to a lawsuit.
Not every inconvenience needs to be solved and removed from our lives.
Not ever “type of person” needs to be classified and named, and supported by an identity politics activist lobby.

We are here to do one thing. Love God by doing His will. And that might be effortful. So what. “What’s that?”

Complaint is normally an early sign of either pride or love of comfort, especially interior complaint.
 
I never said women should hide. Here we go again with the stuffing of words down someone else’s throat.
That was the question of discussion on the thread on which you were commenting. People who do say women should hide or go off to find a private place.
I said that every act of ours should be done with the maximum of love and virtue, for the greatest good of all.
Of course. But within the context of the question at hand in that discussion your #2 statement should be directed to the men who want women to leave to prevent them from having impure thoughts.
In some circumstances where a small child may disrupt an event…that may mean that the mother needs to “optimize” her actions…and leave in order to solve the problem for the child and for the greater enjoyment of others.
We weren’t talking about a disruptive child. We were talking about a child who needs to eat, who if fed at the first signs of discomfort don’t really reach fever-pitch in terms the amount of noise they are making. (especially if mom can feed him/her right there on the spot.

I didn’t bring up the breastfeeding topic. I responded to the conversation that was already going on.
 
That was the question of discussion on the thread on which you were commenting. People who do say women should hide or go off to find a private place.
Maybe you can move this to the appropriate thread. It’s not part of this topic.
 
Maybe you can move this to the appropriate thread. It’s not part of this topic.
Maybe you shouldn’t have discussed it here in the first place yourself…funny how you’re ready to talk about it when pontificating to others about taking up their cross.

If I start a new thread on the topic, would you like to continue the discussion to respond to my last points?
 
so breastfeeding needs to be in a topic called “most priests know far more about marriage than most married people do”???
 
We need more “what’s that?” in our dialog, shrugging off the normal ordinary difficulties of life.

Not all pain harms us.

Not every offense needs to be commented on, much less elevated to the city hall, or to a lawsuit.

Not every inconvenience needs to be solved and removed from our lives.

Not ever “type of person” needs to be classified and named, and supported by an identity politics activist lobby.

We are here to do one thing. Love God by doing His will. And that might be effortful. So what. “What’s that?”

Complaint is normally an early sign of either pride or love of comfort, especially interior complaint.
How can we love God by doing his will when we don’t even know that our fellow Christians are in need because we’ve told them not to tell us?
 
I said that every act of ours should be done with the maximum of love and virtue, for the greatest good of all.
That’s physical impossible for a finite human mind to figure out–especially if we’ve told others to zip it and not tell us that they are suffering.
It may also mean the loving husband may have already scouted out a private place for the mother and child, has already carried and secured what the mother and child needs…perhaps getting a cold drink for his dear bride…found a chair for her…etc.
You’re making the assumption that women go everywhere accompanied by their husbands, which we don’t.

A lot of the time, we have to do for ourselves, while caring for multiple children.
 
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Maybe you shouldn’t have discussed it here in the first place yourself…funny how you’re ready to talk about it when pontificating to others about taking up their cross.
That was probably my fault–but I did want to point out to Edward_H that he has a lot of views on women and children that aren’t based on rigorous research.
 
I didn’t bring breastfeeding into this thread…someone else did. I don’t care to engage with you anymore; your discursive and cherry picking approach is too annoying to deal with, just pesky.

You haven’t touched a single assertion I have advanced why a priest knows far more about marriage than most married people.
 
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