Mother Mary

[twopekinguys]

Proallen,

On this thread you have gone from trying to tell us what Catholics must “adhere to” regarding Mary. (Refuted)

to

"You also have to believe in every single title inferred upon Mary by the RCc. Co-mediatrix, co-redeptrix etc. ". (Refuted)

to

In my years as a devout practicing Catholic, I witnessed folks bowing to statues of Mary for hours on end asking her, petitioning her for special favors and praying to her. Crawling around on their hands and knees for hours praying the Rosary again petitioning her for special favors while never giving any reverance to Christ. I’ve seen the idolotry, the Mary worship and all of the things that Scripture teaches us are wrong regarding idols (hence Exodus 32 The Golden Calf). The Catholic church teaches that only God is to be worshipped, but we see something different that we see ONLY in Catholic churches regarding Mary. This is problematic and even moreso it is destructive.
(Still waiting on you to answer the questions posed to you about this.)

to

“Scripture clearly shows us that nobody, not even the Virgin Mary is worthy to stand before God alone without being cloaked with the Savior Christ.” (Refuted)

to

So when Scripture tells us that all have fallen short of the grace of God, you believe that excludes Mary? If so then why did Mary proclaim God as her Savior? Something doesn’t add up in your knowledge or lack there of of Scripture. (refuted)

You have accused several people of not answering your questions. (myself included).

Please answer the question(s) that have been asked of you regarding what you claim you saw.

 

[twopekinguys]

I totally agree.

 

[twopekinguys]

Bump.

I think we still need an answer from Proallen.

 

[Proallen]

Bump.

I think we still need an answer from Proallen.

And I am still waiting for a decent and logical response from you. I told you what I saw. Do you think anyone would go up to someone bowing and crying and petitioning in front of a statue of Mary and ask them whether they are worshipping Mary or the statue?? Come on. How stupid is that?? And what does it matter. IT’S IDOLOTRY!! If anyone ever did that in my church, they would be thrown out and asked NEVER to come back. That is the point!! This exists in your church alone because Rome refuses to take the proper action to stop it. That speaks volumes about how your church REALLY believes and practices. Who cares what Rome says when they do something totally different.

 

[Proallen]

Where’s your refutation???

 

[regression]

And I am still waiting for a decent and logical response from you. I told you what I saw. Do you think anyone would go up to someone bowing and crying and petitioning in front of a statue of Mary and ask them whether they are worshipping Mary or the statue?? Come on. How stupid is that?? And what does it matter. IT’S IDOLOTRY!! If anyone ever did that in my church, they would be thrown out and asked NEVER to come back. That is the point!! This exists in your church alone because Rome refuses to take the proper action to stop it. That speaks volumes about how your church REALLY believes and practices. Who cares what Rome says when they do something totally different.

If I saw someone who I believed was worshiping Mary, I would not just stand there and say tisk tisk. I would talk to them. Try and show them the truth. Maybe they will listen and maybe they would not.

So if someone makes a mistake in your church, no one tries to correct them, they are just thrown out?

 

[Proallen]

Proallen,

On this thread you have gone from trying to tell us what Catholics must “adhere to” regarding Mary. (Refuted)

 

[Proallen]

If I saw someone who I believed was worshiping Mary, I would not just stand there and say tisk tisk. I would talk to them. Try and show them the truth. Maybe they will listen and maybe they would not.

So if someone makes a mistake in your church, no one tries to correct them, they are just thrown out?

If you saw someone physically committing adultery in your church, you would not throw them out?? Why is idolotry any different?

 

[regression]

If you saw someone physically committing adultery in your church, you would not throw them out?? Why is idolotry any different?

I don’t think that is what Jesus did with sinners. He didn’t disregard them and throw them out. Try and help them.

 

[twopekinguys]

And I am still waiting for a decent and logical response from you. I told you what I saw. Do you think anyone would go up to someone bowing and crying and petitioning in front of a statue of Mary and ask them whether they are worshipping Mary or the statue?? Come on. How stupid is that?? And what does it matter. IT’S IDOLOTRY!! If anyone ever did that in my church, they would be thrown out and asked NEVER to come back. That is the point!! This exists in your church alone because Rome refuses to take the proper action to stop it. That speaks volumes about how your church REALLY believes and practices. Who cares what Rome says when they do something totally different.

What decent and logical response are you asking for? You’ve gotten them all along. If there is a question that has not been answered, please post it, and I’m sure someone will address it.

You have proven by your statement that what you say you saw was either a fabrication, or an assumption on your part.

Your post said that you witnessed this for years, so I am assuming this happened on more than one occasion. That should have given you ample opportunities to 1. Talk to the priest.
2. Talk to the person (s) involved. It is obvious that you didn’t do either one. It is however clear that you have either made a really big assumption, or that the incident(s) didn’t happen.

I’m sorry, but your story just doesn’t add up. You claimed to have been a “devout” Catholic, but you witnessed this for years?

We have asked for more details on the incident(s), yet all you keep coming up with is that you witnessed it. You made an accusation, you need to substantiate it.

 

[twopekinguys]

twopekinguys;6414516:

Proallen,

Wrong, it was never refuted. Try again, the Catechism was quoted to you

.

to

It’s in the catechism, is it not?? You cannot refute it. I think you need to reread it, or possible read it for the first time. Nowhere does it say that a Catholic is required to believe in every title conferred on Mary. But try going back and actually reading the information that was provided.
to

.) You won’t address it because your church won’t take a stand against something that it actually condones and encourages.

1. We keep trying to address it, however, you won’t give any details of when, where, how, etc. 2. it has been shown to you in the Catechism that Catholics are not to worship statues, Mary, etc. 3.Show us where the Church encourages or condones this practice. You’ve made an allegation here, it is up to you to prove it. to

Wrong. You cannot refute the truth of Scripture. Again, you need to read, or reread the information

.
to

Again, you can’t refute the words of Scripture.

Again, you need to read, or reread the information

You know, when you throw things out for discussion, it is up to you to actually read the responses. Then if you disagree with them, it is up to you to provide a rebuttal of some sort.

All of the questions you have asked, have been answered. If one has been missed, then repost it, and it will be addressed.

If you are going to make accusations, or allegations, then it is up to you to provide evidence or proof. Making a pronouncement and refusing to give information is dishonest at best.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Where’s your refutation???

Proallen, Why can you not tell the truth,its not that hard tell us the name of the church and the city,you are bashing the RCC and can not telling the truth.,You know what they said about some one that can not tell thetruth,do I need to tell you.
Its not that HARD the church and the city,if you can not or will not,well thats what you are a l
I think you can spell the rest

 

[Proallen]

I don’t think that is what Jesus did with sinners. He didn’t disregard them and throw them out. Try and help them.

In a place of worship?? What did St. Paul say about folks who perverted the Gospel?

 

[Proallen]

Proallen, Why can you not tell the truth,its not that hard tell us the name of the church and the city,you are bashing the RCC and can not telling the truth.,You know what they said about some one that can not tell thetruth,do I need to tell you.
Its not that HARD the church and the city,if you can not or will not,well thats what you are a l
I think you can spell the rest

I am a Protestant. Why does it matter to you beyond that. None of us contain complete truth like you do right?

 

[Proallen]

Proallen;6417602:

Again, you need to read, or reread the information

You know, when you throw things out for discussion, it is up to you to actually read the responses. Then if you disagree with them, it is up to you to provide a rebuttal of some sort.

All of the questions you have asked, have been answered. If one has been missed, then repost it, and it will be addressed.

If you are going to make accusations, or allegations, then it is up to you to provide evidence or proof. Making a pronouncement and refusing to give information is dishonest at best.

And you are being completely dishonest. You have not answered and refuted as you say that you. Again, I told you of blatant and abject idolotry and you have sidestepped it and asked ridiculous questions regarding it instead of dealing with the issue.

 

[regression]

In a place of worship?? What did St. Paul say about folks who perverted the Gospel?

I am not saying I wouldn’t be upset with that. But God can forgive all sins. That was my point. Should we not try and help people who have gone astray?

 

[Bill_Pick]

I am a Protestant. Why does it matter to you beyond that. None of us contain complete truth like you do right?

Proallen, I was just looking for the truth,why do you have a probem with the truth,is it that hard to name a church and a city

 

[Bill_Pick]

twopekinguys;6417671:

And you are being completely dishonest. You have not answered and refuted as you say that you. Again, I told you of blatant and abject idolotry and you have sidestepped it and asked ridiculous questions regarding it instead of dealing with the issue.

Proallen, When you say some thing about the RCC that I think is not true then I will be asking questions,so if it makes you happy to dance around a question then I can see what kind of person you are or not

 

[twopekinguys]

twopekinguys;6417671:

And you are being completely dishonest. You have not answered and refuted as you say that you. Again, I told you of blatant and abject idolotry and you have sidestepped it and asked ridiculous questions regarding it instead of dealing with the issue.

Try reading the thread. Let’s look shall we?

Your post #7, was answered by Trallius in post #8

Your post #9 was answered by BrianH in post #10, and by Vile servant in post #17,

Your post #11 somehow turned Brian’s response into having to believe every title of Mary. I responded to you in post #12, and further clarified in post #14.

Post 15, you decided to switch gears and go into refuting language in the Catechism without reproach. Whatever that meant. In fact, I asked you what you wanted to refute in post 16. I even included several links for you to check out.

This only covers the first 17 posts of this thread. Do I really need to go on with showing you where your statements have been refuted throughout the rest of the thread?
Also you have made an **unsubstantiated **statement about Idolatry, without any proof.

Are we supposed to believe everything you post just because **you **are the one who posted it?

Sorry, that is not how it works. You made a claim, you back it up. It is as simple as that.

Your continued refusal to provide any information other than what you think is idolatry simply reinforces the fact that you misinterpreted what you saw. Assuming it happened at all.

If the event happened, then you shouldn’t have any problems giving more of a description now should you? Why are you being so difficult in providing details on something you supposedly witnessed for years?

 

[Proallen]

I am not saying I wouldn’t be upset with that. But God can forgive all sins. That was my point. Should we not try and help people who have gone astray?

Then why doesn’t the Catholic church rebuke such behavior?? There has to be a reason.