Mother Mary

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But it’s ok to call me a chauvinist because my views are different than yours. You started the name calling. when you wanna have a civilized conversation let me know.
First of all, you better check your sources. I did not call you a chauvanist, and I don’t particullary like being accused of something I did not do or say.

I’ll help you out on this. See post #26, which you quoted in post 54.
sounds like a double standard to me. but what do I know. I’m not Catholic.
No double standard, but you are right when you say “what do I know. I’m not Catholic”. You are demonstrating that you have a preconceived notion, and you are not willing to change, even with proof.

I will await your apology.
 
Crusin, take a look at the link below
Please show me where this special position was given to her. please be specific. Where did God say this? I really don’t want to miss it. I’m just an incompetent protestant. And please don’t use all the standard catholic talking points. they don’t fit.
time.com/time/magazine/ar…7624-1,00.html

This is a link to a Time magazine article on how Protestants are revisiting the role of Mary
 
Originally Posted by twopekinguys
When the word “Divine” is used in the Holy Catholic Church, it is in reference to God only. “Divine” is a word that is applied to the Creator, a Supreme Being. The Virgin Mary does not qualify for such a title.

Mary is not Divine. She is only Holy. At the same time, as some saints of the Church have received special titles such as “Doctor of the Church,” the Blessed Virgin Mary has received endless titles because of her God given position as Mother of God and her ongoing role of special intercession to God for mankind.
Please show me where this special position was given to her. please be specific. Where did God say this? I really don’t want to miss it. I’m just an incompetent protestant. And please don’t use all the standard catholic talking points. they don’t fit.
catholicdoors.com/faq/qu84.htm

So as you see, the writings are not trying to prove Mary’s divinity, that is your fallible interpretation.
Try reading Luke 1:48. I will even quote from the KJV since I am pretty sure that is the one you would use. Bolding Mine.

"For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

So you see, we have the Blessed Mother (Mother of Christ, Mother of God), we have the Bleesed Vigin Mary (She was a virgin), etc.
 
Originally Posted by twopekinguys
I am not sure how, or why you have brought fear into this.

It has absolutely nothing to do with fear, My point was that I have read many posts from catholics here on this board who pray to Mary and the saints because they are afraid to go to God directly. This is not what God wants or what the apostles taught.it has to do with getting a desired response to a request. so your intention is to manipulate God for selfish reasons?
That’s funny. In all the threads I have read, and been involved in, I have never run across a single post where a Catholic has stated they are afraid to pray to God directly. If you are going to make such a claim, you need to provide a link to a post or thread. Otherwise, you are merely grasping at straws with this, and it definitely lessens what credibility you might have
Originally Posted by twopekinguys
As a parent, I want my child to come to me, and he usually does. However, there are occasions where he knows that his mother and I will discuss an issue, and resolve it together. That is what parenting is about. If his mother can present a valid argument showing why I should accept her and my son’s request, I will do it. That shows my son a couple of things. 1. I value his mother, and her opinions as a parent. 2. I value her opinions as my wife, and it shows I respect her. 3. If it shows him that I value his mother, it will show him I value him and his opinions as well. I don’t think God needs to discuss anything with Mary to make a decision since He already knows our needs. Not our wants.

It is also disrespectful and insulting of you to say someone has a relationship dynamic problem because they don’t parent the same way you do.
Since Jesus granted Mary’s request at the wedding of Cana, and scriptures indicate that all generations will call her blessed, it is reasonable to believe that he would listen, or take into account the wishes of his mother.
I see nothing in the Holy scriptures that gives the supporting evidence to place Mary into the position that the Catholic church claims. Or that anyone in Heaven can hear anything from earth. I believe they are still aware of us, but no evidence that they hear us.
I’ve given you one reference already in Luke 1:48 for Mary.

As far as those in heaven, here you go. Bolding mine.

Revelation 5:8 and 8:3-4 . . . The four beasts and the four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and
golden vials full of odours, **which are the prayers of the saints. **

And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.

Do you think this only represents the prayers of those that are already in heaven, or do you think that the Saints are taking our prayers to the Throne?
but, If that is what you want to believe so be it. I will agree to disagree on the subject for now.
I have seen you use this statement before, on other posts. If you are OK, with what I and other Catholics believe, then why are you here?

Are you wanting to learn what Catholics really believe, or are you trying to reinforce false sterotypes of what people “think” Catholics believe?

As you can see, I and other posters on CAF have provided you scriptural references for what we believe.
 
It must truly be a great life you live, being so much smarter than 2000 years of history and all the most knowledgable people in the Church. I mean by just reading the bible you could figure out that the Church was, is and always will be destined for hell because we worship Mary.

We try constantly to explain the teachings of Mother Church but some of you people are just too smart for us lowly Catholics. I think I’ll just quit trying, I’ll never get it.

By the way Mr Bible man, what kind of vehicle do you use to get around? Donkey or camel, as cars and trucks cannot be found in the bible.:rolleyes:

“Not all is written…” can you find where I found this?
Computers aren’t mentioned either. Maybe he should turn his off now…:p:D
 
sounds like 2000 year of reading between the lines to me… Johns purpose for writing this was to prove Christs divinity not Mary’s.
I said that Mary is a great example for us to imitate Christ. Did I say that Mary is divine?
 
As a father myself and the head of the house, I find this approach inapropriate, disrespectful and manipulative to my God given position as head of the house

If you want the boss to give you a raise at work, I suppose you go ask his/her secretary, as well?

If you read the whole account of the wedding at Cana, Mary was repremanded from Him as well. I bet she never did that again.
Jesus :eek:dissed His mother?? So He broke one of the 10 Commandments, and that means----
  1. That means that He was not without sin.
  2. Since Jesus was not sinless, His sacrificial death on the cross was of no effect.
  3. Since Christ’s death & resurection are of no effect, we a=have no Saviour.
  4. Since we have no Saviour, we are all of us, Catholic, Protestant, EO, etc, etc,** :eek:all of us are going to hell**.
    Hey, break out the barrels, folks;🤷 eat, drink & be merry, tomorrow we die. And it doesn’t matter how much we carry on; we’re all going to hell anyhow.
    How do I know? :rolleyes:“Cruisin” told me so.Oh, wait…:rolleyes:“Some poster named Cruisin”?🤷
    I guess I will stick with Jesus Christ. Somehow He just seems to have things so together…
Wait a sec. This isn’t about intercessory prayer. This is about praying to Mary in hopes that your petitions to Christ will have a greater likelihood of being heard and answered. I believe in intercessory prayer. I do not believe that Mary is the only way to Jesus.
** It is ALL about intercessory prayer.**
You are just trying to give me orders about whose prayers I can ask for.
And I am over here in the Methodist Amen Corner with my fingers in my ears, going “neener–neener–neener”. 'Cause you (nor Cruisin) are NOT going to tell this Cranky Little Old Irish Lady who she can ask for prayers.
[SIGN1]
Not now.
Not here.
Not ever.
[/SIGN1]
 
Proallen,

I see that you are new to the forums, having joined just two days ago. So, welcome! 🙂

Many Protestants hit the forums with “guns blazing” eager to show Catholics the “error of their ways.” I had a bit of an attitude, myself, when I first came to the forums. That attitude was duly adjusted over time. I learned a great deal about Christian charity from the Catholics on these forums.

Ask questions, debate issues, state your beliefs, agree, disagree. The forums are designed for this. However, I would urge you to, at least, consider what others have to say. You don’t have to agree.

Keep in mind that most people will give your posts greater consideration, if you post with Christian charity and respect–which will not diminish the passion of your beliefs.

Christ called us to love one another. It is easy to forget that, when discussing the issues. I know, because I have had to go back and apologize to people a number of times. And I’m sure there were apologies due, that I never gave.

Just a few words of “unsolicited advise.” 🙂

In Christ,
Anna
http://bestsmileys.com/hugging/4.gif
 
40.png
cruisin:
Please show me where this special position was given to her. please be specific. Where did God say this? I really don’t want to miss it.
http://bestsmileys.com/textinbubble1/15.gif

[bibledrb] Luke 1:28[/bibledrb]
[bibledrb]Luke 1:39-45[/bibledrb]
[bibledrb]Ephesians 6:2[/bibledrb]
I’m just an** incompetent **
protestant.:tsktsk:
Did nobody ever teach you, when you were growing up, that you should never take names to yourself? Because someday, :whistle:somebody is going to :whistle:take you at your word???:coffeeread:
And please don’t use all the standard catholic talking points. they don’t fit.
http://bestsmileys.com/movingeyes/4.gif :doh2::dts:
 
Jesus :eek:dissed His mother?? So He broke one of the 10 Commandments, and that means----
  1. That means that He was not without sin.
  2. Since Jesus was not sinless, His sacrificial death on the cross was of no effect.
  3. Since Christ’s death & resurection are of no effect, we a=have no Saviour.
Roses are reddish
Violets are blusish
If it weren’t for Christmas
We’d all be Jewish

It’s not so much that we may hold to the eat, drink, & be merry mentality as much as we’d be under the Old Covenant, I’D think…
 
Proallen,

I see that you are new to the forums, having joined just two days ago. So, welcome! 🙂

Many Protestants hit the forums with “guns blazing” eager to show Catholics the “error of their ways.” I had a bit of an attitude, myself, when I first came to the forums. That attitude was duly adjusted over time. I learned a great deal about Christian charity from the Catholics on these forums.

Ask questions, debate issues, state your beliefs, agree, disagree. The forums are designed for this. However, I would urge you to, at least, consider what others have to say. You don’t have to agree.

Keep in mind that most people will give your posts greater consideration, if you post with Christian charity and respect–which will not diminish the passion of your beliefs.

Christ called us to love one another. It is easy to forget that, when discussing the issues. I know, because I have had to go back and apologize to people a number of times. And I’m sure there were apologies due, that I never gave.

Just a few words of “unsolicited advise.” 🙂

In Christ,
Anna
I understand and I thank you for you advise. However, Scripture can never be diminished in the light of anything, whatever or whoever it may be. In this particular instance, this is exactly what is at hand.
 
Catholic who actually know and practice the CF, reverence Mary and Worship God alone.

It’s not what you say, but what you do as a church. In my years as a devout practicing Catholic, I witnessed folks bowing to statues of Mary for hours on end asking her, petitioning her for special favors and praying to her. Crawling around on their hands and knees for hours praying the Rosary again petitioning her for special favors while never giving any reverance to Christ. I’ve seen the idolotry, the Mary worship and all of the things that Scripture teaches us are wrong regarding idols (hence Exodus 32 The Golden Calf). The Catholic church teaches that only God is to be worshipped, but we see something different that we see ONLY in Catholic churches regarding Mary. This is problematic and even moreso it is destructive.
 
Catholic who actually know and practice the CF, reverence Mary and Worship God alone.

It’s not what you say, but what you do as a church. In my years as a devout practicing Catholic, I witnessed folks bowing to statues of Mary for hours on end asking her, petitioning her for special favors and praying to her. Crawling around on their hands and knees for hours praying the Rosary again petitioning her for special favors while never giving any reverance to Christ. I’ve seen the idolotry, the Mary worship and all of the things that Scripture teaches us are wrong regarding idols (hence Exodus 32 The Golden Calf). The Catholic church teaches that only God is to be worshipped, but we see something different that we see ONLY in Catholic churches regarding Mary. This is problematic and even moreso it is destructive.
If Mary was your Mother,what would you do, honor Her are Not, The Cathloic DOES not worshipp Mary we Honor Her as the Mother of God.
I look at a picture of MY Mother I do not worship Her I honor Her
 
If Mary was your Mother,what would you do, honor Her are Not, The Cathloic DOES not worshipp Mary we Honor Her as the Mother of God.
I look at a picture of MY Mother I do not worship Her I honor Her
 
If Mary was your Mother,what would you do, honor Her are Not, The Cathloic DOES not worshipp Mary we Honor Her as the Mother of God.
I look at a picture of MY Mother I do not worship Her I honor Her
I do not bow to my mother and ask for things that only God can grant. That’s the big difference.
 
Catholic who actually know and practice the CF, reverence Mary and Worship God alone.

It’s not what you say, but what you do as a church. In my years as a devout practicing Catholic, I witnessed folks bowing to statues of Mary for hours on end asking her, petitioning her for special favors and praying to her. Crawling around on their hands and knees for hours praying the Rosary again petitioning her for special favors while never giving any reverance to Christ. I’ve seen the idolotry, the Mary worship and all of the things that Scripture teaches us are wrong regarding idols (hence Exodus 32 The Golden Calf). The Catholic church teaches that only God is to be worshipped, but we see something different that we see ONLY in Catholic churches regarding Mary. This is problematic and even moreso it is destructive.
Unfortunately, it appears you are putting your interpretation on what other people are doing.

Bowing in front of a statue is veneration, and showing respect, not worship.

Praying “to” her is asking her to intercede for us, not worship.

Crawling around on their hands and knees praying the Rosary? I doubt it, but I would imagine it was more like kneeling in prayer.

How do you **know **what you’ve seen is idolatry and worship?

Did you **ask **these people if they were worshipping the statue?

Did you **ask **if they were worshiping Mary?

Are you **assuming **these things based on your observations?

Your post is somewhat confusing. Early in the post you state that “In my years as a devout practicing Catholic,”, yet further down in your post you state, “Crawling around on their hands and knees for hours praying the Rosary again petitioning her for special favors while never giving any reverance to Christ”. If you were actually a devout Catholic at one time, then you would know that when praying the Rosary, you are meditating on the Life of Christ.

Sorry, but your comment really doesn’t hold water with this.
 
Unfortunately, it appears you are putting your interpretation on what other people are doing.

Bowing in front of a statue is veneration, and showing respect, not worship.

Praying “to” her is asking her to intercede for us, not worship.

Crawling around on their hands and knees praying the Rosary? I doubt it, but I would imagine it was more like kneeling in prayer.

How do you **know **what you’ve seen is idolatry and worship?

Did you **ask **these people if they were worshipping the statue?

Did you **ask **if they were worshiping Mary?

Are you **assuming **these things based on your observations?

Your post is somewhat confusing. Early in the post you state that “In my years as a devout practicing Catholic,”, yet further down in your post you state, “Crawling around on their hands and knees for hours praying the Rosary again petitioning her for special favors while never giving any reverance to Christ”. If you were actually a devout Catholic at one time, then you would know that when praying the Rosary, you are meditating on the Life of Christ.

Sorry, but your comment really doesn’t hold water with this.
What is it with you?? I told you what I witnessed for years and you are calling me a liar. How much more in denail can a person be? Bowing to statues, crawling around for hours crying and petitioning Mary for special favors while ignoring Christ is the ultimate display of idolotry.
 
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