mother of God question?

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mercygate said:
Mary is not a detour on the way to God. Since we are all one in Christ, we go God hand-in-hand with all the Saints, among whom Mary is the foremost. Mary, in her earthly life, was more perfectly united to the will of God than any other creature. In the saints, she has thousands who share the perfection of her charity and who, in their love, encourage us on our way.

Where Jesus is, Mary is. Where Mary is, there is the Holy Spirit. Where any Person of the Holy Trinity is, there are the others.
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“Where any Person of the Holy Trinity is, there are the others” ; correct !!! That’s why …I go directly to Jesus …
 
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Huguenot:
True…the expression was not coined by me, that’s what a Catholic told me on a French forum ( You Protestants take the elevator, we take the stairs, or something like that … )

But I still intend to take …the elevator … :rotfl:
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We take both–the elevator and the stairs. The destination is the same. 👍
 
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k.Decker:
I have been pondering this for some time, I know the holy trinity is father, son, and holy ghost but I have developed a great respect for the virgin mary, is she in some ways considerd a Goddess in way,
she is chosen to be divine, so is there mother, father, and son, a holy family, God greated us in it’s image, male and female-the human race, then is it possible for god to exist in a femine divine state, thanks and please let me know, take it easy. 👍
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wrong, Mary is not a goddess in any way shape or form. Mary is not divine. She is fully and completely human, and the perfection of what humanity was created to be. She was free from stain of sin, original and actual from the moment of her conception. She reigns in heaven as queen because she is the mother of the King. Jesus is fully Divine as the Son, Second person of the Trinity, and fully human through her, his mother. If she were not fully human, he would not have a full human nature, which he does.

The Holy Trinity refers to the One God in Three Divine Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. All are referred to in masculine pronouns in Sacred Scripture. Mary is NOT a member of the Holy Trinity. She is human.

Any theology whether based on new age goddess worship or superstitious misunderstanding of Marian doctrine and popular piety, which describes her as divine or as co-equal with the Trinity, is heresy. All doctrine about Mary has developed to explain and defend doctrine about Jesus Christ–his full humanity, his full divinity, the truth of his incarnation, birth, life, death and resurrection. Her status as sanctified in her immaculate conception recalls the state of perfection in which our first parents were created, and which is the state God wills for us, which we will attain, hopefully, in heaven. Her sanctification is the result of the merits of Christ in his salvific act, not her own merits.
 
Huguenot said:
“Where any Person of the Holy Trinity is, there are the others” ; correct !!! That’s why …I go directly to Jesus …
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. . . and so do Catholics. Are you under the impression that our entire vocal prayer life is undertaken via Our Lady? Sometimes these discussions split along either/or lines when the reality is nothing of the sort. Go to a Catholic Mass – the central prayer of Catholic life. Not one prayer in the Mass is directed toward Our Lady. Not one.
 
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Mickey:
Mary is the daughter of the eternal Father.
Mary is the mother of the begotten Son.
Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit.
She is full of grace.
She is blessed.
She is the bridge between heaven and earth.
She deserves honor and veneration.
She is our mother.
She is an example for all Christians.
But she is not divine.
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Mary is also the new Eve and the new Arc of the Covenant.
 
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k.Decker:
I have been pondering this for some time, I know the holy trinity is father, son, and holy ghost

Father, Son, and Holy Ghost

When typing it, it should always be capitilized. 🙂
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itsjustdave1988:
There is a holy family. Yet, the Father is Divine. The Mother is human. The Son is human & Divine.
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this is not the holy family. the Holy Family is the human family of Joseph, Mary and her son Jesus, to whom Joseph was a foster-father.

The Holy Trinity is One God in three Divine persons, who as pure spirit are neither male nor female. However God reveals Himself in Sacred Scripture as 3 Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who are always referred to in masculine terms and whose personality attributes are masculine (not male which refers to physical sex traits). That is God initiates, God creates, God invites, God penetrates, God controls etc.

Jesus, Son of God, is both male and masculine in his human nature. There is no “feminine side” in the Godhead. All souls are feminine in relationship with God: receptive, cooperative, penetrated, etc. Mary is the perfection of the feminine in her total receptivity of God’s grace working within her. That is why all Christians, whether men or women, seek to emulate her trust and receptivity and openness in their own souls.
 
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Huguenot:
If she points us to her Son …then why not to directly to Him ?
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because as God reveals in Sacred Scripture in the OT events which prefigure the NT, and in the NT in which His plan of salvation is carried out, that He chose to send His Son, the fully divine perfect Second Person of the Trinity, to earth to fulfill the plan as a fully human person, and chose one human woman, whom He prepared from her immaculate conception for this role, in whom through the action of the Holy Spirit, her spouse, the son is incarnated as a fully human embryo, grows develops like any human fetus, is born and grows up like any human baby.

Since God chose to send Jesus his Son to earth through a human mother, Mary, that is how we are to approach the Son.
 
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mercygate:
. . . and so do Catholics. Are you under the impression that our entire vocal prayer life is undertaken via Our Lady? Sometimes these discussions split along either/or lines when the reality is nothing of the sort. Go to a Catholic Mass – the central prayer of Catholic life. Not one prayer in the Mass is directed toward Our Lady. Not one.
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I’ve already been to a Catholic Mass, several times : we all have Catholic colleagues , neighbours, friends, for some of us some relatives, since Catholics represent about 80% to 84% of the population of my country ( we Protestants forme a very small minority of about … 2% … !) ; I was not referring to Mass, but in some forms of popular piety Mary becomes even more important than God Himself, and not only in popular piety : some texts are published that really give her a very prominent role, on ( French ) forums some even say that she is Co-Redeemer or something like that …
Sometimes it really becomes superstitious, some people sell medals and other objects that are supposed to “protect you”, you know, it sounds quite “magical” to me …
It is specially true in places where , according to Catholics, Mary appeared, like the town of Lourdes in Southern France …
Even if these exaggerations do not correspond to “official” Catholic teaching, they put us off …
 
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Mickey:
I don’t think it’s a matter of speed. 😉
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That was just a silly joke, but honestly I really don’t see why I couldn’t approach Jesus directly …
 
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puzzleannie:
because as God reveals in Sacred Scripture in the OT events which prefigure the NT, and in the NT in which His plan of salvation is carried out, that He chose to send His Son, the fully divine perfect Second Person of the Trinity, to earth to fulfill the plan as a fully human person, and chose one human woman, whom He prepared from her immaculate conception for this role, in whom through the action of the Holy Spirit, her spouse, the son is incarnated as a fully human embryo, grows develops like any human fetus, is born and grows up like any human baby.

Since God chose to send Jesus his Son to earth through a human mother, Mary, that is how we are to approach the Son.
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But if Jesus is the “only Mediator”, why should I need another one ?
 
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Huguenot:
I’ve already been to a Catholic Mass, several times : we all have Catholic colleagues , neighbours, friends, for some of us some relatives, since Catholics represent about 80% to 84% of the population of my country ( we Protestants forme a very small minority of about … 2% … !) ; I was not referring to Mass, but in some forms of popular piety Mary becomes even more important than God Himself, and not only in popular piety : some texts are published that really give her a very prominent role, on ( French ) forums some even say that she is Co-Redeemer or something like that …
Sometimes it really becomes superstitious, some people sell medals and other objects that are supposed to “protect you”, you know, it sounds quite “magical” to me …
It is specially true in places where , according to Catholics, Mary appeared, like the town of Lourdes in Southern France …
Even if these exaggerations do not correspond to “official” Catholic teaching, they put us off …
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I hear you, Huguenot! A famous American convert, before finally coming into the Church once said: "I have only three problems left with the Catholic Church.
  1. Mary. 2) Mary. and 3) Mary."
That said, whatever the impression popular piety may give (and it can be dreadful), the Marian Dogmas themselves, and Marian devotions undertaken according to the teaching of the Church, are never superstitious.

Marian apparitions are subject to rigorous and lengthy authentication before accepted as “approved” – and even after they are approved, they do not constitute a matter of belief de fide. No Catholic is obliged to incorporate any of that into his own devotional life.
 
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mercygate:
I hear you, Huguenot! A famous American convert, before finally coming into the Church once said: "I have only three problems left with the Catholic Church.
  1. Mary. 2) Mary. and 3) Mary."
That said, whatever the impression popular piety may give (and it can be dreadful), the Marian Dogmas themselves, and Marian devotions undertaken according to the teaching of the Church, are never superstitious.

Marian apparitions are subject to rigorous and lengthy authentication before accepted as “approved” – and even after they are approved, they do not constitute a matter of belief de fide. No Catholic is obliged to incorporate any of that into his own devotional life.
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Well, I have other problems with the Catholic Church, but it doesn’t prevent me from having good relationships with Catholics …
 
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Huguenot:
But if Jesus is the “only Mediator”, why should I need another one ?
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Why did God send His Son to earth through the agency of a human mother? I don’t know, ask Him. Why for that matter was it necessary for Him to take on human form, to be fully incarnated, to be like us in all things except sin in order to redeem the human race? Why did He choose to work through the physical world and its natural laws to attain and operate in His plan of salvation? But the fact is He did so choose.
 
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puzzleannie:
Why did God send His Son to earth through the agency of a human mother? I don’t know, ask Him. Why for that matter was it necessary for Him to take on human form, to be fully incarnated, to be like us in all things except sin in order to redeem the human race? Why did He choose to work through the physical world and its natural laws to attain and operate in His plan of salvation? But the fact is He did so choose.
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I agree with you , but I don’t see any connection between what you say and the fact of coming to Jesus through Mary…
Through Him we have direct access to God, He has opened the way …that’s how I understand Hebrews chapters 9 and 10 anyway …
And other texts too …

When Jesus says : “I am the the truth, the way, the life… NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME”, for me it is very clear, it is one of the verses that enabled me to find God ( I am of atheist background ).
 
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Huguenot:
When Jesus says : “I am the the truth, the way, the life… NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME”, for me it is very clear
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But asking one person to pray for you in no way violates Christ’s mediatorship, as can be seen from considering the way in which Christ is a mediator. First, Christ is a unique mediator between man and God because he is the only person who is both God and man. He is the only bridge between the two, the only God-man. But that role as mediator is not compromised in the least by the fact that others intercede for us. Furthermore, Christ is a unique mediator between God and man because he is the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15, 12:24), just as Moses was the mediator (Greek mesitas) of the Old Covenant (Gal. 3:19–20).

The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something “good and pleasing to God,” not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.
(Excerpt from Catholic Answers article)
 
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puzzleannie:
this is not the holy family. the Holy Family is the human family of Joseph, Mary and her son Jesus, to whom Joseph was a foster-father.

The Holy Trinity is One God in three Divine persons, who as pure spirit are neither male nor female. However God reveals Himself in Sacred Scripture as 3 Persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who are always referred to in masculine terms and whose personality attributes are masculine (not male which refers to physical sex traits). That is God initiates, God creates, God invites, God penetrates, God controls etc.

Jesus, Son of God, is both male and masculine in his human nature. There is no “feminine side” in the Godhead. All souls are feminine in relationship with God: receptive, cooperative, penetrated, etc. Mary is the perfection of the feminine in her total receptivity of God’s grace working within her. That is why all Christians, whether men or women, seek to emulate her trust and receptivity and openness in their own souls.
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What Dave is saying is that the Blessed Virgin, as daughter of the Father, spouse of the Holy Spirit, and Mother of the Incarnate Word forms a type of spiritual Holy Family… I’m sure he knows that the technical Holy Family is Our Lord, Our Lady, and the Foster Father of Christ.
 
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