mother of God question?

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joshua_b:
Greetings once again Huguenot. There is no problem whatsoever with going “directly to Jesus”. We do it all the time as Catholics. But, as human beings, occasionally we need a little help in finding him I guess is the best way I can put it. Mary helps us by pointing us in the direction of Jesus…by showing us how to reach him if we are feeling a little lost. Mary’s role is basically to point us to Jesus and the step out of our way. Mary only gave one command in the Bible “Do as he says…”.

Maybe I can give you a personal example. Just last week I was in a general state of malaise, and not really sure why. I was even (because of my state of emotion) having a difficult time praying. Whenever that happens, I just pray a few Hail Marys and let Mary pray for me. I actually find it very comforting to know that Mary will go to Jesus on my behalf if I am too wrapped up in myself to be able to do it “directly”. I think the problem with most Protestants and Marian teaching is that the Protestants feel that a devotion to Mary is a distraction from Jesus. Catholics feel, however, that a devotion to Mary will ultimately lead us into a deeper and more profound relationship to Jesus.
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That’s precisely what I think : devotion to Mary or any other saint is distraction from Jesus ; and I don’t understand how one can be too wrapped up in oneself to go directly to Jesus but, at the same time, be able to go to Mary …if I am too wrapped up in myself , I probably won’t be able to go to Jesus, but not to Mary either … :banghead: 😛
 
Semper Fi:
There is no problem. Where’s the problem if I ask a saint (in Heaven or on this Earth) to pray for me to God? 🙂

She is because of her “Yes,” to the Lord when He asked her to bare His son. She is because she was the first Christian. She is because she made it possible for you to be saved. 🙂
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Jesus made it possible for me to be saved, do you consider Mary a co-Redeemer or something of that kind ???
She is NOT my mother …she is the mother of my Saviour … :confused:
 
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Huguenot:
Well the expression still sounds strange, since God is eternal how can He have a mother ???
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Theotokos simply means “God-bearer,” and in English it is rendered as “Mother of God”. God has no beginning or end, but when His son was incarnate, that was when He was revealed to the world. Because Jesus is true God and true man, she is the Theotokos, because neither of Jesus’ natures (divine or human), are divided.
 
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Huguenot:
Jesus made it possible for me to be saved, do you consider Mary a co-Redeemer or something of that kind ???
She is NOT my mother …she is the mother of my Saviour … :confused:
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She made it possible for you to be saved because she was faithful to God. 🙂 Without her “Yes,”, by her own free will, where would Jesus be? Still in Heaven, right?
 
Semper Fi:
Theotokos simply means “God-bearer,” and in English it is rendered as “Mother of God”. God has no beginning or end, but when His son was incarnate, that was when He was revealed to the world. Because Jesus is true God and true man, she is the Theotokos, because neither of Jesus’ natures (divine or human), are divided.
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Well, “God-bearer” sounds as strange as “Mother of God”… 😃 😃 😃
 
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Huguenot:
Well, “God-bearer” sounds as strange as “Mother of God”… 😃 😃 😃
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And Jews would say it sounds just as strange to consider that God would become Incarnate in the womb of a woman… Is Jesus not true God and true man???
 
Semper Fi:
She made it possible for you to be saved because she was faithful to God. 🙂 Without her “Yes,”, by her own free will, where would Jesus be? Still in Heaven, right?
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But there are other people, then, who made it possible for me to be saved : all those who have written parts of the Bible, since I became a believer by reading it, and all the people who have spoken to me ; it doesn’t make them mothers ( or fathers ? ) of God … 👍
 
Semper Fi:
And Jews would say it sounds just as strange to consider that God would become Incarnate in the womb of a woman… Is Jesus not true God and true man???
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Maybe I have some Jewish tendencies as well, who knows ? 😃
 
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Huguenot:
But there are other people, then, who made it possible for me to be saved : all those who have written parts of the Bible, since I became a believer by reading it, and all the people who have spoken to me ; it doesn’t make them mothers ( or fathers ? ) of God … 👍
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Of course not, because they did not bear Him. Did not Mary have the free will to say “no”? Or did she do it because she trusted in Him? If so, she is the first Christian and our spiritual mother because of her faithfulness to God?
 
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of they womb Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and in the hour of our death, Amen.

Let’s look at that for a moment if we could please. The first two sentences are directly from Scripture. The greeting of the angel Gabriel, and a recounting of the moment when Mary said “yes” and God became flesh and blood to dwell amongst us. And then, the words of Elizabeth at her reception of the news. The last sentence is merely a request for Mary to pray for us. In my case, I couldn’t last week find it within myself to pray, but this simple little prayer helped by focusing me on God becoming human to redeem the world (which is ultimately what Christianity is based on isn’t it ?), and then a simple request that someone pray for me since I couldn’t seem to find strength to do it myself. Oddly enough, it worked (just like it always does) and now I’m right back to going “directly to Jesus”. Without her help, I could very well still be in a spiritual rut. Huguenot, do you understand the concept of the Communion of Saints ? I think to understand (I’m not trying to convert you, just to explain this to you) how this leads us deeper into Christ, understanding the Communion of Saints is imperative.
 
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Huguenot:
She is NOT my mother …she is the mother of my Saviour … :confused:
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We may be parsing words here, but there can often be power and Truth in figurative language (Scripture is a perfect example of that, as I am sure you will concur.) Being Christians, we are ALL brothers and sisters in Christ. Mary is the mother of Christ, and since we are all the brothers and sisters of Christ, Mary is our mother too. Being a mother, Mary wants what is best for her children. And since naturally Mary knows that Jesus is what is best for us, that is what she as our mother (remember were talking figuratively here, just as we are not literal “brothers” of Jesus) will do for us is help us find our way to Jesus. Obviously, being a Bible believing Protestant, you recognize Mary as being a real person, so my question is, given what you know and accept of Mary and her life, do you believe that Mary would do anything to distract you from Jesus ? (Please don’t read anything into that, its simply a question.)
 
Semper Fi:
There is no problem. Where’s the problem if I ask a saint (in Heaven or on this Earth) to pray for me to God? 🙂

She is because of her “Yes,” to the Lord when He asked her to bare His son. She is because she was the first Christian. She is because she made it possible for you to be saved. 🙂
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. . . and she is because Jesus became man so that all of us would be his brothers. And if he is our brother, she is our mother.
 
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Huguenot:
But if Jesus is the “only Mediator”, why should I need another one ?
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I know you posted this quite a while ago, but I simply wanted to correct you. Mary is not a mediator. She is an intercessor, along with all of the saints, whether in Heaven or on Earth. She’s a traffic cop… she just points you in the right direction… 😉

Jesus is the only one that died for us, hence He is the only Mediator. This does not mean the saints do not pray for us in Heaven or on Earth.

We don’t believe Mary negotiates our salvation or that she in any way decides who is going to be saved or not. For judgment alone is Christ’s. This is the time of Mediatorship the Bible was speaking of. Dialogue is good, and I hope you understand our position a little bit better now, because it’s always good to get rid of those misconseptions. 😉
 
Semper Fi:
Of course not, because they did not bear Him. Did not Mary have the free will to say “no”? Or did she do it because she trusted in Him? If so, she is the first Christian and our spiritual mother because of her faithfulness to God?
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Because of her faithfulness she is an EXAMPLE to follow, but it still doesn’t make her my mother … 😃 ( I’m a very stubborn Protestant … 😛 )
 
Hugenot:

The Catholic love for Mother Mary is rather simple:
  1. Christ being the perfect man is also a perfect son—he fulfilled the commandment HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER to perfection—He loves Mother Mary, his mother.
  2. Since we love Christ, we love what he loves: therefore we become closer to Him by loving his Mother.
  3. John representative of faithful Christians is granted the sonship of Mary…we join in on that relationship…SON BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER. WOMAN BEHOD YOUR SON. Christ gives us his mother as one of the final act before He dies.
  4. Since Mother Mary’s FIAT brought about Christ in her womb. Our FIAT when we say AMEN when receiving the Most Holy Eucharist is the perfect simile to Her reception of the Son in her body…so it is with us when we receive His body into ours.
Many more point but this is the most basic that I would like to add.

Thanks.

in XT.
 
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Huguenot:
Because of her faithfulness she is an EXAMPLE to follow, but it still doesn’t make her my mother … 😃 ( I’m a very stubborn Protestant … 😛 )
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So are you saying also that Jesus is not your brother, even though he repeatedly emphasized this point (“who is My brother…?”) or that you and I are not brother and sister in Christ ?

Again, I’m not trying to convert you, but I am attempting to get you to perhaps understand the Catholic position on this and hopefully at least acknowledge that it does have some validity on some level. We believe as Catholics that the “Body of Christ” is not separable. Physical death does not separate us from those left here on earth. Just as God is not separated from us on earth, so too, those who have joined God and share in his Kingdom are not separated from us. Those who share in His Kingdom also share in his Glory, and being in his presence, we are able to communicate with them (don’t ask me HOW this is possible, I have no clue as to the mechanics of it) just as we are able to communicate with Jesus. We hold that each of us has a purpose, and that purpose WILL carry on with us into the next realm. Mary’s purpose is to lead us to her Son, and we hold there is no problem in asking her to help us get to him. It is not a matter of going to Jesus OR going to Mary, but rather of getting to Jesus through her. This does not mean we MUST go to Mary to get to Jesus, simply that we CAN if we feel the need for whatever reason. This simple practice is in no way in violation of Scripture; Jesus often granted healing and forgiveness to an individual based on the requests of a third party. Not once did Jesus ever tell anyone who went to him on behalf of another that the third party MUST come to him themselves. Please feel free to bring up any point of this on which you are unclear or take exception to. God bless…
 
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AquinasXVI:
Hugenot:

The Catholic love for Mother Mary is rather simple:
  1. Christ being the perfect man is also a perfect son—he fulfilled the commandment HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER to perfection—He loves Mother Mary, his mother.
  2. Since we love Christ, we love what he loves: therefore we become closer to Him by loving his Mother.
  3. John representative of faithful Christians is granted the sonship of Mary…we join in on that relationship…SON BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER. WOMAN BEHOD YOUR SON. Christ gives us his mother as one of the final act before He dies.
  4. Since Mother Mary’s FIAT brought about Christ in her womb. Our FIAT when we say AMEN when receiving the Most Holy Eucharist is the perfect simile to Her reception of the Son in her body…so it is with us when we receive His body into ours.
Many more point but this is the most basic that I would like to add.

Thanks.

in XT.
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  1. I also honour my mother and my father—though not to perfection of course, since I am a sinner.
  2. I never said I don’t love her, but I don’t pray to her, that’s all …( and there are other people in the Bible I feel closer to than Mary … )
    And why don’t you “love” Lazarus as much as you love Mary ? Jesus cried when he died, before raising him from the dead, it shows He really loved him, doesn’t it ?
  3. He asked John to look after His mother, it doesn’t make her the mother of all Christians.
  4. I don’t understand ANYTHING ; for me the Eucharist is symbolical, and anyway, each time I obey God in my daily life, I do the same as Mary : I submit myself to God 's will, but Mary was not the only person who did so, we can follow her example but also other people’s examples …
 
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joshua_b:
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of they womb Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and in the hour of our death, Amen.

Let’s look at that for a moment if we could please. The first two sentences are directly from Scripture. The greeting of the angel Gabriel, and a recounting of the moment when Mary said “yes” and God became flesh and blood to dwell amongst us. And then, the words of Elizabeth at her reception of the news. The last sentence is merely a request for Mary to pray for us. In my case, I couldn’t last week find it within myself to pray, but this simple little prayer helped by focusing me on God becoming human to redeem the world (which is ultimately what Christianity is based on isn’t it ?), and then a simple request that someone pray for me since I couldn’t seem to find strength to do it myself. Oddly enough, it worked (just like it always does) and now I’m right back to going “directly to Jesus”. Without her help, I could very well still be in a spiritual rut. Huguenot, do you understand the concept of the Communion of Saints ? I think to understand (I’m not trying to convert you, just to explain this to you) how this leads us deeper into Christ, understanding the Communion of Saints is imperative.
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No, I don’t think I understand what you mean by “communion of saints”, but I don’t see why going directly to Jesus would leave in a spiritual rut as it is precisely how I became a believer …
Is it a problem if I pray only to God ?
 
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joshua_b:
We may be parsing words here, but there can often be power and Truth in figurative language (Scripture is a perfect example of that, as I am sure you will concur.) Being Christians, we are ALL brothers and sisters in Christ. Mary is the mother of Christ, and since we are all the brothers and sisters of Christ, Mary is our mother too. Being a mother, Mary wants what is best for her children. And since naturally Mary knows that Jesus is what is best for us, that is what she as our mother (remember were talking figuratively here, just as we are not literal “brothers” of Jesus) will do for us is help us find our way to Jesus. Obviously, being a Bible believing Protestant, you recognize Mary as being a real person, so my question is, given what you know and accept of Mary and her life, do you believe that Mary would do anything to distract you from Jesus ? (Please don’t read anything into that, its simply a question.)
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You’re right, I don’t think that Mary would want me to do anything that would distract me from Jesus, that is why I don’t think she wants me to pray to her ( or other saints ).
It’s true that we are Jesus Christ’s brothers and sisters, but it still doesn’t make Mary our mother : I am also my minister’s sister, but this doesn’t make his mother become my mother either…
 
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