Moto Propio not what we think it is?

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If harvey’s report is true - and the priest in this liberal diocese says nothing to worry about the MP with a wink and a nod - then I think you will see a split in the Catholic church again - as in the Reformation times - over this issue. Harvey’s report would, if true, be a total sellout to Traditionalists.
 
I agree, it would be a complete waste of time if the TLM were corruped in such a way. Have we not had enough innovation already?!
 
First, thanks for posting my cartoon there, Ms. Golden Girl 👍

The comment about the TLM being corrupted is something I’ve worried about also.

I liken it to giving a 2 - year old a glass to drink from - you just know they’ll find a way to break it.

Releasing the TLM is nice - but what’s the reality of it on the ground level? There are many churches that have been “renovated” to make it logistically difficult to celebrate a TLM.

Let’s say you’ve got one of those churches where the tabernacle is kept in the janitor’s closet. A priest there would like to say the TLM. But the pastor has forbidden the tabernacle being moved back to the altar for any reason. So in this case, the priest would be out of luck. I foresee alot of these types of logistical roadblocks being setup by the enemies of the Faith, [edited by Moderator].

Personally, I welcome it ( the MP ), but it’s not a time for celebration because I’m sure [edited by Moderator] are not going to be caught unprepared.
 
PaulN420 said:
Releasing the TLM is nice - but what’s the reality of it on the ground level? There are many churches that have been “renovated” to make it logistically difficult to celebrate a TLM.

Let’s say you’ve got one of those churches where the tabernacle is kept in the janitor’s closet. A priest there would like to say the TLM. But the pastor has forbidden the tabernacle being moved back to the altar for any reason. So in this case, the priest would be out of luck. I foresee alot of these types of logistical roadblocks being setup by the enemies of the Faith, [edited by Moderator].
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There is actually no requirement in the TLM for the tabernacle to be on the high/main altar (or any altar) at which the priest offers the Mass.
 
AJV -

Thanks - I wasn’t aware of this. But I’m sure the bad guys will look for other ways to prevent any type of smooth sailing.
 
At first while reading thru this thread, I was just thinking that it’s just a rumor based on misinformation. But then the thought occured to me, what if it’s just a expemption(for lack of a better term) for parishes, that no longer have high altars(:mad: )…and just a table. But then again maybe not, because an altar table could be move or set up in a proper way for the TLM. So now I am back to my first thought, just a rumor based on misinformation. 🤷
 
I know of a parish that still has the rear altar, and is one of the prettiest churches I’ve ever seen. BUT, mass there is quite relaxed with tons of altar girls. Once, the altar girl wore her Girl Scout uniform instead of the standard dress. And even then, the altar “servers” look like they’ve been hanging out at the 7-11.

Now, I imagine a TLM being offered there. Would it be offered with any dignity? I think the priest would have enough respect, if he were so inclined to offer it, but would altar girls be allowed? Would they still dress like they were going to a party?

I believe that “they” will allow the TLM to be said, but “they” will also allow it to be offered in same undignified manner as the Novus Ordo is offered.

At this same parish, the music is completely modern and disgusting. No classic hymns, and practically everything is post-1970’s stuff. Can you imagine this group offering music to accompany a TLM? I can’t imagine it.

It’s almost as if they’ll say “Sure, you can have your TLM, but you’ll get it the manner in which WE allow you to have it”.
 
PassthePeace1 said:
At first while reading thru this thread, I was just thinking that it’s just a rumor based on misinformation. But then the thought occured to me, what if it’s just a expemption(for lack of a better term) for parishes, that no longer have high altars(:mad: )…and just a table. But then again maybe not, because an altar table could be move or set up in a proper way for the TLM. So now I am back to my first thought, just a rumor based on misinformation. 🤷
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Your idea about he altar could make sense. I know I went home for a visit awhile back and went into the parish I grew up in, and they had put in this new altar, that is no way could work (well maybe if they turned it around I’m not sure) with having the priest facing away. Kind of sad, but I will admitt that it looks pretty.
 
countertenor said:
Your idea about he altar could make sense. I know I went home for a visit awhile back and went into the parish I grew up in, and they had put in this new altar, that is no way could work (well maybe if they turned it around I’m not sure) with having the priest facing away. Kind of sad, but I will admitt that it looks pretty.
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But we could always do this
 
I’m sure the bad guys will look for other ways to prevent any type of smooth sailing.
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Watch out, though, the “bad” guys can come from behind either side of the fence. 😉
 
SnorterLuster said:
Paul Harvey (Long time radio newsman/commentator on ABC Radio) is reporting that the announcement from Pope Benedict will allow priests to say the TLM in the vernacular. Further, they will be allowed to say the TLM at the “Table” facing the people.

I couldn’t believe I heard Paul correctly on his morning newscast, so I listened to his Noon broadcast and he repeated what he said this morning.

Won’t that be a kick in the pants if he is right. Can you imagine what other innovations will occur if that door is opened, If he is right, I would just as soon the Pope not issue the M.P.
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Even if that would be true why is that an innovation? The form of the Liturgy is not a doctrine. Its a discipline and can be changed by any Pope.
 
Even if that would be true why is that an innovation? The form of the Liturgy is not a doctrine. Its a discipline and can be changed by any Pope.
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A couple of non-sequitors here. And perhaps a misleading assumption as well. Can you clarify?

A Pope CAN do or say a lot of things but the question is, is it always for the good of the Church and is it always clear? Hopefully in the future we won’t need a study made by 9 Cardinals appointed by still another Pope to overturn what a previous Pope was perceived to have done. The MP should be clear enough to avoid any such controversy. :coffeeread:
 
PaulN420 said:
First, thanks for posting my cartoon there, Ms. Golden Girl 👍

The comment about the TLM being corrupted is something I’ve worried about also.

I liken it to giving a 2 - year old a glass to drink from - you just know they’ll find a way to break it.

Releasing the TLM is nice - but what’s the reality of it on the ground level? There are many churches that have been “renovated” to make it logistically difficult to celebrate a TLM.

Let’s say you’ve got one of those churches where the tabernacle is kept in the janitor’s closet. A priest there would like to say the TLM. But the pastor has forbidden the tabernacle being moved back to the altar for any reason. So in this case, the priest would be out of luck. I foresee alot of these types of logistical roadblocks being setup by the enemies of the Faith, [edited by Moderator].

Personally, I welcome it ( the MP ), but it’s not a time for celebration because I’m sure [edited by Moderator] are not going to be caught unprepared.
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  1. You do not need the Blessed Sacrament reserved on the Altar in order to celebrate the TLM.
  2. No matter how the Sanctuary is you can still roll out a portable altar in front of the “Cramner table”, or put one on the empty wall behind it and totally bypass the table… or make a makeshift one up at the Tablernacle if it still is there.
  3. You do not need a communion rail either- people would kneel in the front pews or at the beginning of the Sanctuary.
As someone who has brought the TLM to these types of environments here in NJ I KNOW that these things MAKE NO DIFFERENCE. If JPII can celebrate the TLM in a field on Christmas Eve in Poland, as he did, then we can surely celebrate one anywhere on earth.

Ken
 
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