T
tkdnick
Guest
I also saw the thing on Apple Trailers, and knew what it was right away. I could not bring myself to actually watch the trailer. I was too disappointed. Seems Catholics are the last acceptable people to “bash”.
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P
Primitive
Guest
Just my thought, but…
Couldn’t this be just as destructive, if not more, than that DaVinci Code trash?
Couldn’t this be just as destructive, if not more, than that DaVinci Code trash?
L
Liberalsaved
Guest
But I watch movies to escape from reality.
J
josemaria
Guest
I watched the trailer and it is severely disturbing. Apparently, a large portion of the documentary consists of an interview with Oliver O’Grady, a priest and pedophile, who speaks shockingly about his crimes against children. The trailer shows him hanging out at a playground. A Cardinal is also briefly shown defending assignment of sexual perverts to ministry in the Church in what appears to be a judicial interview.
Of course, the trailer also impugnes the Holy Father by quickly showing his face near the end.
Based on the trailer, this modern documentary is formulaic: using some shocking true footage to encourage suspicion and then extrapolating illogically to unrelated claims. In this case, it appears that the entire hiearchy of the Church is to be slandered. It appears that it will only have a limited release in theaters before it shows up at Blockbuster.
Unfortunately, the interview footage is so horrifying that I do not imagine that most viewers will be able to calmly consider the scope of the claims made. Even this late in the propaganda game, it remains wrenching to watch these fallen priests. Corruptio optimi pessima.
St Francis, pray for us
Of course, the trailer also impugnes the Holy Father by quickly showing his face near the end.
Based on the trailer, this modern documentary is formulaic: using some shocking true footage to encourage suspicion and then extrapolating illogically to unrelated claims. In this case, it appears that the entire hiearchy of the Church is to be slandered. It appears that it will only have a limited release in theaters before it shows up at Blockbuster.
Unfortunately, the interview footage is so horrifying that I do not imagine that most viewers will be able to calmly consider the scope of the claims made. Even this late in the propaganda game, it remains wrenching to watch these fallen priests. Corruptio optimi pessima.
St Francis, pray for us
D
davy39
Guest
I believe the Cardinal in the trailer is Cardinal Mahoney of Los Angeles. It also say that there have been 100,000 people molested by priests. Where they got that figure, I have no idea. But the film could be very bad for the Church and for all Catholics. It’s another try at driving another nail in the Churches coffin.
D
DWPC
Guest
And who’s providing the nails? It wasn’t the media or Hollywood that systematically shielded pedophiles in cassocks while serving up generations of boys to feed their perversions. Too many Catholics are still in denial about the historic level of self-inflicted and deserved damage done to the Church by its “leaders” and the perverts they protected for generations. *This *stain will be visible for a long long time.
As a pre-VCII Catholic, I’ve had it with the whole bunch of Sixties relativists that’s risen to high posts in the Church. Didn’t Paul VI say something about the “…the smoke of Satan in the Church”?
Too bad our Lord didn’t have Law’s or Mahoney’s armies of lawyers when he went before Pilate.
D
davy39
Guest
Yes, I agree with you to a point. But I also believe that the media and hollyweird has a vendetta against Christians in general. Yes, there have been some awful mistakes made by even the leaders of our Church. I think that the Church has been providing some nails for its own coffin. I, too am a pre-vc11 Catholic, and I am really getting tired of all of this. I’d like to see the end of this in my lifetime, but I’m afraid I won’t. Pray for wisdom in the Church.
C
cheese_sdc
Guest
You’ll get wisdom in the church when the leadership is forced to suffer the consequences of their decisions.
H
Hastrman
Guest
How about a movie with a teacher molesting students? 10 times as likely as a priest. How about a movie with a shrink molesting patients? 5 times as likely. How about one with a Protestant minister or a rabbi molesting his flock? Twice as likely.
Oh, wait, they’re all protected species in Hollywood. But priests are fair game. Hypocritical SOBs. Is there a hell low enough for filmmakers who act self-righteous?
Oh, wait, they’re all protected species in Hollywood. But priests are fair game. Hypocritical SOBs. Is there a hell low enough for filmmakers who act self-righteous?
C
curiousone
Guest
Have you seen studies that validate your statistics you are throwing out there? I am not saying you are right or wrong but to just throw out numbers like that is as irresponsible as what others say about the church
D
DWPC
Guest
Which of your examples are associated with a trusted major religious organization found to have an institutional history of systematically protecting pedophiles and rapists? One can argue that the pedophiles are sick and in need of treatment and prayer. But the perverts are just a symptom of a deeper infection in the American Church.
What of our bishops who knowingly shuffled these pervs from parish to parish and school to school, giving them access to fresh victims? What of our cardinals; publically ever so pious but repeatedly sacrificing the innocence of children to protect their ambitions? What of the millions we put in the Sunday collection baskets that they used as hush money? What of the refusals to cooperate with law enforcement? What of the Vatican’s lack of strong response to the malignancy in the American Church?
Didn’t the Pope just say something about the need for faith **and **reason a couple weeks ago? Defensiveness by Catholics over this scandal is natural, but we need to recognize that this threat to the Church is from the inside.
C
CathCentrist
Guest
Yes - especially since this is based on actual events. It wouldnt have happened if the Church didnt do so much covering up. Its not the fact people fall, but its when people lie and coverup for the fallen is what causes the biggest strife.
C
CathCentrist
Guest
This sounds like one of those arguments “well, they did it as well so where is their punishment”
Priests are more culpable then teachers soley because they claim to have the truth of life and are supposed to ensure the care of our souls. Sure teachers do this as well. Faith is gonna get the bigger coverage and I think it should.
J
josemaria
Guest
I believe that those who are already subtly supporting this movie with the subtext that “the Church deserves it” are misguided. What exactly does the Church deserve? Justice for the victimized cannot by separated from the Church’s mission to seek and save the lost; they are one in the same. Justice and peace are only possible through the Church - and so punishing her instead of seeing her as another authentic victim of the scandal is to misunderstand exactly what a scandal is.
To characterized the Church as an institution dedicated to promoting criminal behavior is preposterious, regardless of the fact that many bishops are negligent in their duty of protecting the flock in a variety of ways. This is not a post-Vatican II issue – obviously. The overnight, reckless pseudo-implementation of the council was carried out by clergy of the pre-Vatican II period.
This movie is not about justice. It is another component to a carefully crafted propaganda machine designed to kill the Catholic Church and to make money.
firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0605/opinion/chaput.html
In the very short preview, it impugnes the Holy Father, as well as the Church herself in the glory of her liturgical life, instead of focusing on the criminals and THEIR CRIMES - THEIR SINS. It continues to shift the focus of too much of the Church’s resources from evangelically proclaiming Jesus Christ to defensively isolating the clergy.
In my diocese, the only certification that one needs to teach catechism is to take a sexual abuse prevention workshop. Hence future generations of Catholics will continue to know more about sexual abuse than our Lord Jesus Christ.
To characterized the Church as an institution dedicated to promoting criminal behavior is preposterious, regardless of the fact that many bishops are negligent in their duty of protecting the flock in a variety of ways. This is not a post-Vatican II issue – obviously. The overnight, reckless pseudo-implementation of the council was carried out by clergy of the pre-Vatican II period.
This movie is not about justice. It is another component to a carefully crafted propaganda machine designed to kill the Catholic Church and to make money.
firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0605/opinion/chaput.html
In the very short preview, it impugnes the Holy Father, as well as the Church herself in the glory of her liturgical life, instead of focusing on the criminals and THEIR CRIMES - THEIR SINS. It continues to shift the focus of too much of the Church’s resources from evangelically proclaiming Jesus Christ to defensively isolating the clergy.
In my diocese, the only certification that one needs to teach catechism is to take a sexual abuse prevention workshop. Hence future generations of Catholics will continue to know more about sexual abuse than our Lord Jesus Christ.
C
CathCentrist
Guest
The Church itself doesnt deserve it - but those in charge of keeping her free from this evil certainly do and I look forward to this documentary.
D
DWPC
Guest
There’s a big difference between “promoting” and “systematically protecting” (my words). I believe the facilitating cardinals and bishops did more damage to our church than the perverts themselves did. Its one thing for predators to take advantage of their institutional positions. Its entirely another when that institution decides to protect them at the expense of its most innocent. The latter is what has so shocked the non-Catholic world and broken the hearts of Catholics.
First things first. Few are going to listen to a Church that’s destroyed its own credibility and synically abused the trust of its faithful. Ask Jimmy Swaggart. Trust must be re-earned.
I’ll agree to the extent that future generations of Catholics will know far more about sexual abuse in the Church than they wish to. This stain will last a long, long time.
J
josemaria
Guest
The purpose of my post was to make a distinction between the Church and individual members who are sinners. The preview does not attempt such a distinction and that is dishonest; that is why I am so disgusted with this type of sensationalization of this particular scandal. This movie is not about the truth. It is about making money and hurting people who are not connected to the scandal. Its about agitating the general climate of anti-catholicism in this country.
I ask, is there anyone who reads the NYT that doesn’t regularly read about this scandal? No, because it is the lingua franca of anti-catholic rhetoric in this country. Is it true that children and adolescents were molested? Is it true that men tried to hide the truth about it? How could it not be true. You will never be able to completely irradicate any sin from any group of fallen humans this side of eternity. Does it make it any less despicable: obviously not. But what does that have to do with the Church as such?
Has the Church tried to implement reform? Judging by the way the average layman contracepts, fornicates, divorces, etc… what could possible lead anyone to believe that Catholics take sexual chasitiy seriously. Committees, workshops, and mock-u-mentries are not the way back to Christ. There is only one way to Christ and that is repentance - as a Church. You want reform – then each and every person must repent in their heart and from within the heart of the Church.
I ask, is there anyone who reads the NYT that doesn’t regularly read about this scandal? No, because it is the lingua franca of anti-catholic rhetoric in this country. Is it true that children and adolescents were molested? Is it true that men tried to hide the truth about it? How could it not be true. You will never be able to completely irradicate any sin from any group of fallen humans this side of eternity. Does it make it any less despicable: obviously not. But what does that have to do with the Church as such?
Has the Church tried to implement reform? Judging by the way the average layman contracepts, fornicates, divorces, etc… what could possible lead anyone to believe that Catholics take sexual chasitiy seriously. Committees, workshops, and mock-u-mentries are not the way back to Christ. There is only one way to Christ and that is repentance - as a Church. You want reform – then each and every person must repent in their heart and from within the heart of the Church.
DWPC, your words where a bit more abrasive that this, as your post shows. To “serve up” innocent people IS to promote the abuse and that was exactly the force of your argument.
There is a problem when the institutional solution to this problem does not involve repentence and conversion.
B
blessedtoo
Guest
Yes, and our dear friend Rosie O’Donell was the first to jump on the bandwagon. I can’t find the video clip online but O’Reilly aired it tonight on his show. She’s already making comments about B16.
D
DWPC
Guest
I think “serve up” aptly describes what our bishops commonly did when they transferred known sexual predators to different parishes where they had normal duties and contact with children. We are to be forgiving, but that doesn’t mean we’re to offer the innocent to those who prey on them. As far as I know, criminal prosecution and rightful imprisonment is not in conflict with Church teaching. For the child molesters and those who shielded them, repentance and conversion should be from behind bars.
The American Church’s disgrace and the assaults on it by the likes of O’Donnell and the maker of this film should have been plainly predictable by the hypocritical fools that thought concealment was a solution. First, it was their duty as clergy to put the welfare of our children ahead of Church (institutional) wealth and image. Second, anyone living in the age of modern media knows such scandals simply can’t be concealed, and that such attempts always make it worse.
O’Donnell and her ilk are part of the shame Catholics must now endure.
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
I think it is time to remind people that until the late 1980s pedophiles were considered TREATABLE by the medical association, and (like alcoholics before them) PART of their treatment was that they SHOULD be ‘permitted’ (under supervision) to demonstrate their putative ‘rehabilitation’. Now, of course, we ‘know’ differently. . .but we cannot ‘retroactively’ assign our current knowledge to the people of the past, can we?
Let’s put it this way. If Cardinal X is assured by Dr. Z, Psychiatrist S, Father A (the accused), Father B (another sinner who supposed was cured through therapy), Lawyer C, fellow Cardinals E and F (who supposedly had success in THEIR diocese with ‘cured’ priests over the last decade or so), that Father A SHOULD be given a ‘clean slate’ since he is supposedly ‘cured’. . .why is ONLY Cardinal X in the hot seat when Father A sins again?
Why are we not asking for the medical and legal communities who gave incorrect information to share in the blame? Can the good Cardinal read minds? Can he predict the future to know that in x years the diagnoses made on pedophilia will be REVERSED?
Real, knowing sin is one thing. Doing what one is assured by EXPERTS is the ‘right thing’ and having that, sadly, turn out badly is quite another.
Let’s put it this way. If Cardinal X is assured by Dr. Z, Psychiatrist S, Father A (the accused), Father B (another sinner who supposed was cured through therapy), Lawyer C, fellow Cardinals E and F (who supposedly had success in THEIR diocese with ‘cured’ priests over the last decade or so), that Father A SHOULD be given a ‘clean slate’ since he is supposedly ‘cured’. . .why is ONLY Cardinal X in the hot seat when Father A sins again?
Why are we not asking for the medical and legal communities who gave incorrect information to share in the blame? Can the good Cardinal read minds? Can he predict the future to know that in x years the diagnoses made on pedophilia will be REVERSED?
Real, knowing sin is one thing. Doing what one is assured by EXPERTS is the ‘right thing’ and having that, sadly, turn out badly is quite another.
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