MOVIES: 'Sicko'

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emily47017 said:
how about acts 4:32-37?

you don’t have to accept marx/engels wholecloth in order to advocate for economic justice.
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OK. I THINK that I see what you are saying. I would be happy to argue for economic justice. In point of fact, I like the term. However, let us never forget that it is not justice to take by force of law from those that make money to give to those that do not. Acts of charity should be…well…charitable.
 
estesbob said:
How could you possibly get that out of what sage said?
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I was using hyperbole. I did not bring up the “lifestyle” issue. My post was about how Catholics should view health care as a human right. Sage brought up the link to lifestyle and just know why that is relevant to whether someone is treated for sickness. Unless…

What do you suppose Sage’s point is?
 
sacredcello said:
BTW, one can advocate for a just and compassionate government AND give out of one’s own resources to the poor at the same time. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. 🙂
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The problem is the government is too many people with too much variation in the definition of just and compassionate. Not to introduce another controversy, but many people think government paid abortions are just and compassionate. Government based healthcare only make that more complicated.

Smaller, limited government is best.
 
orionsbelt said:
The problem is the government is too many people with too much variation in the definition of just and compassionate. Not to introduce another controversy, but many people think government paid abortions are just and compassionate. Government based healthcare only make that more complicated.

Smaller, limited government is best.
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I could not agree with you more!👍
 
Reminder to all participants in this discussion:

The topic is about Michael Moore’s movie as an appeal for health care reform in the United States. Try to keep your comments tied to the film or Michael Moore as producer/director of the film.

If you wish to discuss U.S. health care reform in and of itself please visit the Social Justice forum.

Thank you. :tiphat:
 
orionsbelt said:
Here is a link to what I think is a good article on Michael Moore’s way of thinking.

townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=freedom_and_benevolence_go_together&ns=JohnStossel&dt=07/11/2007&page=1
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Quite good. The bottom line is that Moore believes that the only reason that the Soviet Union did not work was that it had the wrong guy in charge of it. This is why he idolizes people like Castro and Hugo Chavez, as in the opinion of Moore they are a new breed of Communist…the kind that Moore would like to see in power here in the United States. So what is the problem with Moore’s thinking?

The problem is that it does not work out so well in the end. Castro, Chavez, and Lenin all had the same problem in the end. They could not figure out an infrastructure that was capable of providing for the needs of every person every day. Think, for a second here, about the magnitude of that task for a moment…you have to provide food, shelter, and health care for 260,000,000 individuals in the US on every single day of their lives. I got two words for you…good luck!

While we are here, and now that you understand the most fundamental flaw in Moore’s Communist thinking, let’s go on to look for a second at the other thing Moore is not going to like very much. He is going to have to say goodbye to that mansion that he owns in Beverly Hills for one. You see, when we are all equal and totally provided for, there is no upper class or middle class…just a lower class outside of government to which we would all need to become accustomed…even Michael. Woops, I do not think Mike is going to like that one. But, rest assured that he has thought of it. So what does Mike really want at the end of the day?

Mike wants the same thing that Al Gore wants. He wants the same thing that Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, and Ted Kennedy all want. They want a Communist state in which nobody has any power, wealth, or influence…except them. This, by the way, is the big flaw in the plan of Communism. You see, people really hate to have to eat bread every day while the people in power who are there to “take care of us” eat lobster.

Wake up America. I lived through the cold war, and I can tell you that you do not want any part of a Socialist agenda in which government has all the power and you have to take what they give you. If you have any questions on this point…take a trip to Florida and talk to some Cubans that swam 90 miles to eat out of the dumpster in America because it was better than what the government provided in Cuba. Talk to anyone who was alive and a citizen of the Soviet Union. Talk to the people of North Korea. When you do that, you will come to understand that the United States is the greatest country in the world, and that our personal commitment to freedom and personal responsibility is what has made us this great.

As to charity, ask a few homeless people where they get their food. They will not say that they get it from the government. They get it from citizens, Churches, and other privately funded organizations that are much more efficient at dealing with poverty than a government ever will be.

Now, if you want the cost of your health care to go down, I would suggest looking for ways to get government out of health care…not put them square in the middle of it.
 
sadie2723 said:
Quite good. The bottom line is that Moore believes that the only reason that the Soviet Union did not work was that it had the wrong guy in charge of it.
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What is ironic is that Michael Moore would not be allowed to make a movie critical of the Goverment in the old Soviet union todays Venezula or Cuba.
 
Angela_Tate said:
Reminder to all participants in this discussion:

The topic is about Michael Moore’s movie as an appeal for health care reform in the United States. Try to keep your comments tied to the film or Michael Moore as producer/director of the film.

If you wish to discuss U.S. health care reform in and of itself please visit the Social Justice forum.

Thank you. :tiphat:
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Yes. Back to the movie. Has anyone on this forum refuted ONE fact from the movie? Has anyone seen the movie? Also, if the movie promotes socialism, how is that inconsistent with our current policies. Social security was doing great before tax cuts and war mongering. Moore points out in the film that we HAVE socialism and it works well in the U.S…medicare, social security, etc. Let’s face it. When being a good Christian conflicts with being a good capitalist — most of us pick the latter.
 
WanderAimlessly said:
From the beginning, Moore took a hostile position and wanted to control the whole interview. With all the insults and name calling coming from him, no wonder it took three years for Moore to be back on CNN. :rolleyes: Moore comes off like the leftist bully that he is.
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Ok. So you don’t like him. Attack the issue, not the person. Did you see the movie? - and what is your refutation to his evidence and conclusions?
Address this question? Why are Canadians and Europeans not trying to copy our system?
 
dmcsherr said:
One never knows if Moore presents “true facts?” All one has to do is check the sources of his claims. All sources are listed and documented on his website. He has offered $10,000 to the first one to prove his facts are not accurate. Maybe you can show us where he goofed and collect the loot. Can you present EVIDENCE that his films are fiction? Is it possible that his point and his methods simply make you uncomfortable. Again, as a Catholic, I say that he is more pro-life than many of my Catholic friends. Health care for all - why is that controversial to Catholics?
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No Takers?
 
dmcsherr said:
Yes. Back to the movie. Has anyone on this forum refuted ONE fact from the movie? Has anyone seen the movie? Also, if the movie promotes socialism, how is that inconsistent with our current policies. Social security was doing great before tax cuts and war mongering. Moore points out in the film that we HAVE socialism and it works well in the U.S…medicare, social security, etc. Let’s face it. When being a good Christian conflicts with being a good capitalist — most of us pick the latter.
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Moores movie was almost all ancedotal evidence. For instance he interviews people who are happy that they only had to wait in line for 15 minutes at an emrgency room in cananda. Statistically people in Canada wait an everage of 4 hours for servcie in enrgency rooms. BUT since Moore didnt claim that the people he interviewd were the norm there is nothing that can be disporved.

Notice he didnt interview the Canadians involved in class action suit to force the Govt to allow them to pay for private health care-seems that waiting two years for elective surgery aggravates some people.
 
estesbob said:
Moores movie was almost all ancedotal evidence. For instance he interviews people who are happy that they only had to wait in line for 15 minutes at an emrgency room in cananda. Statistically people in Canada wait an everage of 4 hours for servcie in enrgency rooms. BUT since Moore didnt claim that the people he interviewd were the norm there is nothing that can be disporved.

Notice he didnt interview the Canadians involved in class action suit to force the Govt to allow them to pay for private health care-seems that waiting two years for elective surgery aggravates some people.
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Since people are triaged in ER rooms, a 4 hour wait for a non-life-threatening illness is probably about the norm for the US. Don’t have the stats at hand. But I have waited that long for an ear infection that caused excruciating pain (on a weekend night)

How about the dying woman that the staff stepped over and mopped around, just in the last week or two?
 
Indyann said:
Since people are triaged in ER rooms, a 4 hour wait for a non-life-threatening illness is probably about the norm for the US. Don’t have the stats at hand. But I have waited that long for an ear infection that caused excruciating pain (on a weekend night)

How about the dying woman that the staff stepped over and mopped around, just in the last week or two?
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But Moore presented interviews with people who happily told him they only waited 15 minutes-and left it that.

As long as we are playng the ancedotal evidence game -My Father-in-law was put in a corner and left to die over aa heart issue bcuase the British health Service detrermined it was not cost effective to treat him, . My Father had a similar condition ,had surgery and lived for another 15 years.
 
Indyann said:
But I have waited that long for an ear infection that caused excruciating pain (on a weekend night)
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yep, same here. i had a bladder infection and waited about 4 hours. i had absolutely no reason to complain: ahead of me were heart attacks, severed fingers and burned eyes. they got treatment promptly. isn’t that as it should be?
 
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