moving on to Islam

[Kouyate42]

Islam has as I understand it two basic groups. The group that believes that leaders are based on descendants of mohammed, the shiite, and others that do not agree with that, the suni. Suni represeent 90% of Islam. The Shiite minority is concentrated in Iran, Iraq and Lebanon.

The Suni would be the equivalant of Protestant denominations.

Whilst the main split IS between Shia and Sunni, the splitting of the various schools of Islam goes beyond that. Here’s a Wikipedia article:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches

 

[CopticChristian]

Whilst the main split IS between Shia and Sunni, the splitting of the various schools of Islam goes beyond that. Here’s a Wikipedia article:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches

This is good. I refrain from using Wikipedia however I see that there is relevant information. This tree appears to look like as referenced before Protestant denonimations and in a sense mirrors the division of private interpretation of a book and what it can do.

It suggests that what we talk about as it concerns “sola” whatever the outcome has similar results. Protestants could learn by studying the divisions of Islam to understand their own divisions. There is no central authority. It reminds me of one of my favorite verses.

20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse

If we look in the world we can discern the work of God and the work of men.

If we were to hold up the Protestant family tree and the Islamic family tree and put symbols and no names and ask a 7th grader what the similarities were we would get better answers than the ones we get from the many that are in those divisions provide.

 

[dzheremi]

Islam is basically sola scriptura for people who like to blow things up.

 

[Kouyate42]

Islam is basically sola scriptura for people who like to blow things up.

Except Islam doesn’t rely purely on Qur’an, but also on the Hadeeth (sayings of the Prophet Muhammad) and the works of the major scholars.

 

[CopticChristian]

Islam is basically sola scriptura for people who like to blow things up.

You are aware that there are extremists of sola scriptura that have blown things up.

 

[dzheremi]

Geez, tough room…

 

[Trebor135]

This is good. I refrain from using Wikipedia however I see that there is relevant information. This tree appears to look like as referenced before Protestant denonimations and in a sense mirrors the division of private interpretation of a book and what it can do.

It suggests that what we talk about as it concerns “sola” whatever the outcome has similar results. Protestants could learn by studying the divisions of Islam to understand their own divisions. There is no central authority. It reminds me of one of my favorite verses.



If we look in the world we can discern the work of God and the work of men.

If we were to hold up the Protestant family tree and the Islamic family tree and put symbols and no names and ask a 7th grader what the similarities were we would get better answers than the ones we get from the many that are in those divisions provide.

Ironically, fundamental Sunni Islamic notions are widespread in Protestant denominations and Protestant-derived sects. Here’s a tentative list:

• Failure of God to protect the true faith from corruption–leading to someone openly calling himself a “prophet” (for Muslims) or concealing his true identity under the title “reformer” (for Protestants in general as well as Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons)
• Ignoring and distorting history to suit own interests–acting as if the Early followers of Jesus would have welcomed and easily accepted the few unfamiliar doctrines of Muhammad (for Muslims) or applauded the “Reformation” as bringing back previously-held but since-discarded doctrines (for Protestants in general as well as Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons)
• No visible, authoritative clerical hierarchy (for Muslims, Lutherans, Calvinists, Anabaptists, Baptists, and Pentecostals)
• No grace-conveying sacraments (for Muslims, Anabaptists, Baptists, Pentecostals, Campbellites, Seventh-Day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Mormons)
• ?Fatalistic view of God (for Muslims, Calvinists, and Reformed Baptists)
• Maintenance of some Jewish “rules and regulations” in some form (for Muslims and Seventh-Day Adventists)
• Denial of the trinity and deity of Christ (for Muslims and Jehovah’s Witnesses)

Edit: As noted by CopticChristian, Oneness Pentecostals belong in this list as well (the final category).

 

[Trebor135]

Except Islam doesn’t rely purely on Qur’an, but also on the Hadeeth (sayings of the Prophet Muhammad) and the works of the major scholars.

1. The Qur’an is best compared to Jesus himself; both are regarded as the “word of God” and “eternally coexisting with him in heaven” among Sunni Muslims and Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant Christians, respectively.
2. The Hadith are most aptly compared to the Bible; they both contain reliable records of the sayings and doings of the figure who founded the religion they espouse.
3. Sola scriptura Protestants rely on “the works of [their] major scholars” for their fundamental doctrines too, e.g., Luther and Calvin.

 

[CopticChristian]

Ironically, fundamental Sunni Islamic notions are widespread in Protestant denominations and Protestant-derived sects. Here’s a tentative list:

• Failure of God to protect the true faith from corruption–leading to someone openly calling himself a “prophet” (for Muslims) or concealing his true identity under the title “reformer” (for Protestants in general as well as Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons)

 

[Steven_John]

I honestly don’t know how important you are, but you are the one who has chosen to post in this thread and make your views heard. Considering the nature of this forum and the topic, you should expect to be questioned.

Given the nature of this forum one would expect to get answered, not have genuine questions avoided with other questions unless they seek clarification of the question asked.
Or people could say plainly i don’t want to answer.

Peace and blessings

 

[AngryAtheist8]

Given the nature of this forum one would expect to get answered, not have genuine questions avoided with other questions unless they seek clarification of the question asked.
**Or people could say plainly i don’t want to answer.**Peace and blessings

If that’s what you want to say your free to do so.

 

[CopticChristian]

Given the nature of this forum one would expect to get answered, not have genuine questions avoided with other questions unless they seek clarification of the question asked.
Or people could say plainly i don’t want to answer.

Peace and blessings

Hey mate,

Gday, Gday…help me understand the question that you have not gotten answered. I have reviewed your posts and rather than guess I ask you pleast to put it out there.

What question do you have that has not been answered. I ask anyone and everyone to honor Steves request if you are able.

 

[MontChevalier]

1. The Qur’an is best compared to Jesus himself; both are regarded as the “word of God” and “eternally coexisting with him in heaven” among Sunni Muslims and Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant Christians, respectively.
2. The Hadith are most aptly compared to the Bible; they both contain reliable records of the sayings and doings of the figure who founded the religion they espouse.
3. Sola scriptura Protestants rely on “the works of [their] major scholars” for their fundamental doctrines too, e.g., Luther and Calvin.

You’re joking, right?

To compare the Koran, that which is built on blood and aggression, to the peaceful Jesus Christ is like putting a lamb in a lion’s den.

The Hadith is “reliable”? In the Koran it states that Abraham and Ishmael were both in Mecca, there is no evidence of that, at all. And you really believe that something like the Hadith can also be reliable? After the many of the Koran’s huge foul-ups? i.e. Jesus was a Muslim, Ishmael was a Muslim. Muslims today even believe that the famous Basilius, Heracles of the Byzantine Empire, was a Muslim too, but there’s evidence pointing that that’s also wrong.

 

[Steven_John]

Hey mate,

Gday, Gday…help me understand the question that you have not gotten answered. I have reviewed your posts and rather than guess I ask you pleast to put it out there.

What question do you have that has not been answered. I ask anyone and everyone to honor Steves request if you are able.

Gday mate,
bless you a bunch for your caring.
Your care to me is an image i hold of Yahooshua (pbwh), may G-d bless you and yours.

I think we long passed where i was

Originally Posted by AngryAtheist8 View Post
Saudi Arabia and the Taliban are theocracies, their policies are explicitly religious and Islamic!

How do you define Islamic?
peace and blessings

I was inspired to share something from this post but to ensure i was inspired by the true spirit sought clarification from the poster as to what is their basis for defining Islamic belief.
To be truthful many people of the Islamic religion come from differing perspectives, and with an intention of being fair to the poster sought clarification of where they were coming from.

Form this start we can follow questions being answered by questions from other posters also.

I tired best to answer of me to them but was accused of avoiding their questions.

But for your post and others not involved i feel my relationship with G-d is something best hidden away.

Fair enough as i am not worthy to speak for anything of G-d, and given this thread dont want to.

I have posted kindly to bloved and after a pm that went unanswered asked how she and her friend were going here in the thread.

For me the thread has long lost bloveds question, so to be up fornt to you have pulled away but to ensure i answer any questions asked of me.

Bless you a bunch for showing love to me, i am inspired of your post you appear of the true religion.

 

[Trebor135]

You’re joking, right?

It looks like the meaning of my original post went right over your head. Da’wa-ganda is the last thing on this devoted Christian’s mind.

To compare the Koran, that which is built on blood and aggression, to the peaceful Jesus Christ is like putting a lamb in a lion’s den.

The Hadith is “reliable”? In the Koran it states that Abraham and Ishmael were both in Mecca, there is no evidence of that, at all. And you really believe that something like the Hadith can also be reliable? After the many of the Koran’s huge foul-ups? i.e. Jesus was a Muslim, Ishmael was a Muslim. Muslims today even believe that the famous Basilius, Heracles of the Byzantine Empire, was a Muslim too, but there’s evidence pointing that that’s also wrong.

1. I didn’t compare the Qur’an to Christ because of similarities in their “character”.
2. Although you deem the Hadith unreliable because of the Qur’an’s blunders–and I understand why you would make that inference–I haven’t investigated whether the Hadith are demonstrably inaccurate on matters of history. For the purposes of smoother discussion with Muslims on faith, I prefer to take the Hadith as they are rather than get into attempting to disprove their historicity. Some of the Hadith’s content is so damning, there would be no reason to dispute their authenticity and accuse Muslims long ago of embellishing dull or distressing accounts of Muhammad’s words and actions.
3. Let’s revisit the relevant posts preceding and precipitating my comments:

Islam is basically sola scriptura for people who like to blow things up.

Except Islam doesn’t rely purely on Qur’an, but also on the Hadeeth (sayings of the Prophet Muhammad) and the works of the major scholars.

1. My aim was to refute the statement that Islam does not teach sola scriptura because it employs the Hadith in addition to the Qur’an by pointing out the following:

a) the Islamic view of the Qur’an approaches the Christian conception of Christ more than the latter’s view of the Bible

and

b) the Hadith (sayings and doings of the claimed prophet), in terms of their content, resemble the Bible (more specifically, the Gospels) more than they do the Qur’an.