Moving Out of State--Major Marital Struggle

[PPeterson]

Hello Wings,

I would suggest that no one who doesn’t have an airline pilot in their immediate family can fully appreciate your or your wife’s situation.

It takes a very special person to be a captain, and it takes the same to live with one. I don’t think it’s fair to you or to her to try and just apply what other internet people with distance or career success in their marriages do because it’s not the same.

 

[Irishmom2]

See a lawyer. This still looks like the set up of every divorce cliche ever told.

You’ve offered to look multiple cities, but she will only settle for the one a few hours from extended family. A specialist with a job that supports the home can’t just switch career and keep everything afloat. That just isn’t reasonable. A SAHP can move much more easily than a working person in a specific field can just make a switch. If she’s at all in touch with reality, she knows this. Adults have to move for their/their spouse’s career. That’s life, and from the sounds of it, she went into this recognizing that.

She’s telling you in no uncertain terms that she values being within a few hours of her family over living with her husband. She’s choosing to essentially be a single mom rather than allow you to be a part of your kids lives while you support the family. She’s putting you in an impossible position - the job that takes care of your wife and kids, or being a part of your own family.

Next time you’re out of town, send her a long email explaining how hard this has been for you, outline everything you’ve done from counseling to considering multiple cities, and make it clear that you love her and want to be there for your kids every day and are willing to do whatever you can. Will it make a difference? To her, probably not. To a court when you’re being painted as an absentee, aloof father? It’s a start.

I’m not telling you to file anything, but you should start documenting, and talk to a lawyer in your state who can help you do this effectively. I hope your marriage lasts and this is never necessary. But if the worst happens, you’ll be glad you did when it comes time to talk custody.

Hello Wings,

I would suggest that no one who doesn’t have an airline pilot in their immediate family can fully appreciate your or your wife’s situation.

It takes a very special person to be a captain, and it takes the same to live with one. I don’t think it’s fair to you or to her to try and just apply what other internet people with distance or career success in their marriages do because it’s not the same.

Yes, to both of these posts. Some posters want the OP to give up the career that supports his family to satisfy a wife that does seem to care about being with him.

 

[heidi_storage]

See a lawyer. This still looks like the set up of every divorce cliche ever told.

You’ve offered to look multiple cities, but she will only settle for the one a few hours from extended family. A specialist with a job that supports the home can’t just switch career and keep everything afloat. That just isn’t reasonable. A SAHP can move much more easily than a working person in a specific field can just make a switch. If she’s at all in touch with reality, she knows this. Adults have to move for their/their spouse’s career. That’s life, and from the sounds of it, she went into this recognizing that.

She’s telling you in no uncertain terms that she values being within a few hours of her family over living with her husband. She’s choosing to essentially be a single mom rather than allow you to be a part of your kids lives while you support the family. She’s putting you in an impossible position - the job that takes care of your wife and kids, or being a part of your own family.

Next time you’re out of town, send her a long email explaining how hard this has been for you, outline everything you’ve done from counseling to considering multiple cities, and make it clear that you love her and want to be there for your kids every day and are willing to do whatever you can. Will it make a difference? To her, probably not. To a court when you’re being painted as an absentee, aloof father? It’s a start.

I’m not telling you to file anything, but you should start documenting, and talk to a lawyer in your state who can help you do this effectively. I hope your marriage lasts and this is never necessary. But if the worst happens, you’ll be glad you did when it comes time to talk custody.

Yeah, I have to agree with BEL.

 

[pianistclare]

I agree with Peterson & BEL.

I live in a major airline hub. Most of our parishioners are pilots. All of the children my daughters went to Catholic school with were airline families. Some, with both parents employed by airlines. Male and female pilots, and male and female “stewards”.
What I would say, is that pilots tend to be very focused. They do one thing. Perfectly. They do the same thing the same way. Every time, in the same exact sequence. They tend to not be keen on “amendments.” They seldom veer from the plan.
This is what I read in his posts. He has a plan. A flight plan, if you will. She’s not on board with it on any level. He has a plan,.
I repeat. He has a plan.
I imagine, he himself has said “this is the plan.”

It’s not being adjusted, amended or changed from the original plan.
This is a pilot’s world view. It’s it fair? Is it reasonable given her depression?

We’ve been batting this about for pages.
But I can’t believe she didn’t know this about him, his career, or his life plan from the beginning.
Sure she’s depressed. She’s not on board with the plan on any level.
But she has chosen her folks over him. That’s no bueno.
Should he find out ASAP if she’s taking her meds? Absolutely.

I agree with BEL.
He’s being made to be the bad guy, and hey…he’s not terribly flexible. But I know plenty of airline families and they are tight, enjoy the perks of the career, and have provided excellent educations for their kids. The kids have received a bird’s eye view of historical places, rare art, monuments, natural wonders, and cultures.
.
Her place is with her kids and her husband. I moved with my family several times. It’s not the end of the world. Did I miss Mama & Daddy? You bet. But we had phones and we piled in to the van to go see them every summer and they flew out to see us.
Pilots have A LOT of time off, FWIW. The dads were very visible at the Home and School association. Running major fundraisers , coaching sports, and handling committee work for the principal. It can be done.

 

[Xantippe]

See a lawyer. This still looks like the set up of every divorce cliche ever told.

You’ve offered to look multiple cities, but she will only settle for the one a few hours from extended family. A specialist with a job that supports the home can’t just switch career and keep everything afloat. That just isn’t reasonable. A SAHP can move much more easily than a working person in a specific field can just make a switch. If she’s at all in touch with reality, she knows this. Adults have to move for their/their spouse’s career. That’s life, and from the sounds of it, she went into this recognizing that.

She’s telling you in no uncertain terms that she values being within a few hours of her family over living with her husband. She’s choosing to essentially be a single mom rather than allow you to be a part of your kids lives while you support the family. She’s putting you in an impossible position - the job that takes care of your wife and kids, or being a part of your own family.

Next time you’re out of town, send her a long email explaining how hard this has been for you, outline everything you’ve done from counseling to considering multiple cities, and make it clear that you love her and want to be there for your kids every day and are willing to do whatever you can. Will it make a difference? To her, probably not. To a court when you’re being painted as an absentee, aloof father? It’s a start.

I’m not telling you to file anything, but you should start documenting, and talk to a lawyer in your state who can help you do this effectively. I hope your marriage lasts and this is never necessary. But if the worst happens, you’ll be glad you did when it comes time to talk custody.

In the case of (God forbid) divorce, the OP would not be able to offer his kids much of anything. He’s out of town or in transit something like 2/3 of the time. He can’t have custody of the kids if he’s not there.

He probably also doesn’t have a very regular work schedule (compared to the 9-5 world), which would be a further impediment to being with his children or having much of a share of visitation. He would have a very hard time keeping to the terms of court-ordered visitation as his schedule would keep shifting.

Basically, he is up a creek unless he fixes his marriage. If he winds up divorced, he will probably have to choose between his kids and his career anyway.

 

[Xantippe]

This is a major major factor driving a move. How hard is it to “dig” out of depression in this scenario? Even when it happens, at some point we’ll need to take a “leap of faith” that yes, in spite of the challenges of moving, won’t having Dad at home and involved a great deal more help avoid future depression and overwhelming stress?

On the flip side, I’m functioning as a single person most of the month. Can’t we fix each other’s problem here by being TOGETHER more?

Trying to walk the tightrope of being supportive, being quietly resigned to sleeping in the recliner 70% of the time, and leading this family to what will provide the best environment for all of us over the long haul.

Keep doing your counseling and be more proactive about your wife’s depression. You need to know everything about depression and how to beat it.

I think that a key problem is that your wife doesn’t believe your increased presence at home is going to create a better life for her than she would have staying nearer to her family with you away much of the time. She doesn’t really believe that having more of you in her life will make it better, which is why you’re having such a hard time selling her on the idea of a move to have you around more.

There’s probably an element of depressive thinking in that (depressive people don’t think that anything will make them better and they reject solutions), but at the same time, maybe there’s something to that idea? Consider what your life is like when you are home. Does your wife enjoy your company? Does she want to spend more time with you?

I think the Italy trip is an interesting piece of evidence. Although it’s true that it is always much harder parenting on foreign turf, it’s a good example of how your wife is likely to deal with moving to a new area. You will be having a blast. She won’t. She’ll resent it. Believe me, if she thinks she’s going to be unhappy if she moves, she’s going to be unhappy if she moves. I’ve moved to follow my husband’s job, and it was hard at the best of times–and I’ve actually always been positive about our moves.

HD has made some interesting points about how the two of you seem to be living in different realities. I think it’s time for you to learn more about where your wife lives and what she thinks about you and your career now.

Also, three kids in 7 years is a big deal. You don’t have to answer this, but I think you should think about whether or not your wife happy with your original family planning ideas, whatever they were? Is she pulling back because she doesn’t want to deal with being pregnant or having another baby? That is definitely a possibility.

I think you guys need to do a lot more talking and doing stuff together, so that she sees you as her partner and her friend, not the boss visiting from out of town.

Good luck!

 

[AClaire11]

Keep doing your counseling and be more proactive about your wife’s depression. You need to know everything about depression and how to beat it.

I think that a key problem is that your wife doesn’t believe your increased presence at home is going to create a better life for her than she would have staying nearer to her family with you away much of the time. She doesn’t really believe that having more of you in her life will make it better, which is why you’re having such a hard time selling her on the idea of a move to have you around more.

There’s probably an element of depressive thinking in that (depressive people don’t think that anything will make them better and they reject solutions), but at the same time, maybe there’s something to that idea? Consider what your life is like when you are home. Does your wife enjoy your company? Does she want to spend more time with you?

I think the Italy trip is an interesting piece of evidence. Although it’s true that it is always much harder parenting on foreign turf, it’s a good example of how your wife is likely to deal with moving to a new area. You will be having a blast. She won’t. She’ll resent it. Believe me, if she thinks she’s going to be unhappy if she moves, she’s going to be unhappy if she moves. I’ve moved to follow my husband’s job, and it was hard at the best of times–and I’ve actually always been positive about our moves.

HD has made some interesting points about how the two of you seem to be living in different realities. I think it’s time for you to learn more about where your wife lives and what she thinks about you and your career now.

Also, three kids in 7 years is a big deal. You don’t have to answer this, but I think you should think about whether or not your wife happy with your original family planning ideas, whatever they were? Is she pulling back because she doesn’t want to deal with being pregnant or having another baby? That is definitely a possibility.

I think you guys need to do a lot more talking and doing stuff together, so that she sees you as her partner and her friend, not the boss visiting from out of town.

Good luck!

I reread the first page earlier tonight and the OP apparently used to be emotionally abusive in past years and would take out job frustrations on his wife. He said that’s a reason she doesn’t want to move; she doesn’t feel like she’ll be able to rely on him and lean on him.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

In the case of (God forbid) divorce, the OP would not be able to offer his kids much of anything. He’s out of town or in transit something like 2/3 of the time. He can’t have custody of the kids if he’s not there.

He probably also doesn’t have a very regular work schedule (compared to the 9-5 world), which would be a further impediment to being with his children or having much of a share of visitation. He would have a very hard time keeping to the terms of court-ordered visitation as his schedule would keep shifting.

Basically, he is up a creek unless he fixes his marriage. If he winds up divorced, he will probably have to choose between his kids and his career anyway.

That is exactly why he needs to document. Pilots, if that’s what he does, make very good money. If his wife is doing what it looks like she’s doing, he needs to be able to show a few things: a constant desire and effort to be a good dad, that he can support them, and that he has a child care plan that will work with his job.

It will be much harder for her if she’s unemployed and didn’t make an effort to keep the family together. Sure, he may not have a traditional every weekend arrangement, but he may and up with entire summer and Christmas breaks.

Depressed or not, past marital problems or not, it doesn’t matter. She’s acting like a spoiled princess. It’s beyond the pale to expect the OP to work and support a SAH lifestyle she refuses to making living together and him being a dad a real priority. He is her husband, and it is well past time for her to leave and cleave.

Can you really imagine treating your husband like this? I can’t. And I can’t imagine being on the receiving end, either. It’s just so disgusting and abnormal. He has to hope and work for the best. But given his unconventional lifestyle, he needs detailed plans for the worst.

 

[ConfusedLucy]

Because it means she will have to move somewhere unfamiliar with no support and still be a single parent a lot of the time. She isn’t a spoiled princess for not wanting to do that. I think until her mental health improves its hard for her to see what’s best for the family.

 

[Xantippe]

I reread the first page earlier tonight and the OP apparently used to be emotionally abusive in past years and would take out job frustrations on his wife. He said that’s a reason she doesn’t want to move; she doesn’t feel like she’ll be able to rely on him and lean on him.

Ooooooh!

That’s a really important point that may well be the elephant in the room.

The OP and his wife have only been married 7 years or so–any emotionally abusive behavior has to have been fairly recently.

 

[Xantippe]

That is exactly why he needs to document. Pilots, if that’s what he does, make very good money. If his wife is doing what it looks like she’s doing, he needs to be able to show a few things: a constant desire and effort to be a good dad, that he can support them, and that he has a child care plan that will work with his job.

It will be much harder for her if she’s unemployed and didn’t make an effort to keep the family together. Sure, he may not have a traditional every weekend arrangement,** but he may and up with entire summer and Christmas breaks.**

Depressed or not, past marital problems or not, it doesn’t matter. She’s acting like a spoiled princess. It’s beyond the pale to expect the OP to work and support a SAH lifestyle she refuses to making living together and him being a dad a real priority. He is her husband, and it is well past time for her to leave and cleave.

Can you really imagine treating your husband like this? I can’t. And I can’t imagine being on the receiving end, either. It’s just so disgusting and abnormal. He has to hope and work for the best. But given his unconventional lifestyle, he needs detailed plans for the worst.

Not as a pilot he won’t.

I have two commercial pilots in the extended family. Interestingly, the older one–who had been living about 60 miles away from his wife’s family for years–eventually flew the coop and moved back to his home turf a couple states away. He didn’t even attempt to divorce until the kids were all out of the house years later–and there was not even an attempt to get custody (of course the two youngest were in high school at the time). Before that, his normal commute was a three hour drive plus an 800 mile flight–very similar to the OP’s situation (I believe they call it deadheading). The wife’s parents have always been a big part of the children’s lives to the present day. I never heard complaints specifically about the commute, but he did eventually fly the coop. He had started out as a pilot in a now defunct small airline in his wife’s area but got on with a major national airline. The geography of that situation was eerily similar to the OP’s. The younger pilot relative has just finished paying his dues like the OP, has three little kids like the OP, and has recently moved his family to the same region as his wife’s family, which is one that he has no prior ties to–but it also happens (very fortunately) to be within easy commuting range of a major airport hub–I believe he’s able to just drive to work rather than drive/fly. Of course, it’s early days for them (they’re 30-something and haven’t hit the same age stage where the older couple had problems), but it’s interesting that my young relative has made that choice.

The OP is in a bad situation, but it didn’t appear out of thin air and it didn’t all start yesterday. Presumably they got here one step at a time. Also, they’ve somehow managed to have three kids in seven years–which is a significant stressor all by itself.

I would not encourage the OP to make any sort of “detailed plans” until he has made the sort of sustained effort on her depression that it doesn’t sound like has happened yet. This is a relationship that has suffered a lot of neglect while he has been climbing the ladder and they’ve been having babies, and it’s not clear that he is making full use of his time at home in terms of repairing the relationship. I would discourage the OP from overdoing home projects that are not in some way relational (unless they are especially important to your wife), especially ones that can be outsourced. Think hard about what tasks can be outsourced–lawn, yard and housecleaning are easy ones to outsource. Do not let yourself be eaten up with household minutiae when the main thing that is broken at home is your wife and your marriage!

I have actually had a few brushes with what had to be depression, and while I would not make the particular choices the OP’s wife has made, I would say that I can’t imagine moving while depressed, particularly (unless special arrangements are made), she will bear 80% of the brunt of moving. We once moved with a 4-year-old and a 2-year-old and it took literally years to finally get unpacked because my husband was busy with other (important!) stuff immediately after we arrived. And that was “only” with two little children! And I was actually feeling pretty good! Until our youngest was in 3-day pre-k, I just never had that kind of leisure–and I also found myself unpacking boxes that had been untouched since a move 8 years previously…

One of the times when I was probably depressed (although I didn’t know it at the time), although I was all about the baby, I was indifferent to and annoyed by the other members of the family, namely my husband and the toddler. There’s no way I would have agreed to a move at that point, and even if I had agreed to a move, there’s no way I could have coped effectively with it.

Also, the more troubled their marriage is, the less sense it makes for her to be willing to move.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Also, if the emotional abuse was recent it’s well within reason to try to extend power by isolation. If her family is seen to take her side, he may want to remove her from that influence. It’s a sign of extending control in an unequal relationship.

I realize that is really reading between the lines and is probably not accurate but it’s something to consider.
I really don’t want this to turn into a thread where we further demonize the OP. Jumping wildly into speculation of a situation we have no way of knowing, but rather working from the limited info.

I’m close friends with 3 pilots of some sort. 1 worked two weeks on two weeks off for oil companies in the Gulf of Mexico, he lives in the northwest. The “commute” is not that bad and is paid for by his company. One flies for fed ex. He is in China one day and Europe the next. He too travels back for free and is around enough to coach his kid’s soccer (bleah) team. The third has a sweet gig. He is a pilot for a private jet and can use the jet for personal use which sometimes includes my nice little family. He is gone but rarely even overnight.

All of this and I’m not sure that the op is a pilot. Wouldn’t he be more forthcoming about that. Perhaps it’s in a post I missed.

The point is that these people made family a priority and live where thier kids and wife feel most comfortable.

 

[Xantippe]

Also, if the emotional abuse was recent it’s well within reason to try to extend power by isolation. If her family is seen to take her side, he may want to remove her from that influence. It’s a sign of extending control in an unequal relationship.

I realize that is really reading between the lines and is probably not accurate but it’s something to consider.
I really don’t want this to turn into a thread where we further demonize the OP. Jumping wildly into speculation of a situation we have no way of knowing, but rather working from the limited info.

I’m close friends with 3 pilots of some sort. 1 worked two weeks on two weeks off for oil companies in the Gulf of Mexico, he lives in the northwest. The “commute” is not that bad and is paid for by his company. One flies for fed ex. He is in China one day and Europe the next. He too travels back for free and is around enough to coach his kid’s soccer (bleah) team. The third has a sweet gig. He is a pilot for a private jet and can use the jet for personal use which sometimes includes my nice little family. He is gone but rarely even overnight.

All of this and I’m not sure that the op is a pilot. Wouldn’t he be more forthcoming about that. Perhaps it’s in a post I missed.

The point is that these people made family a priority and live where thier kids and wife feel most comfortable.

Here’s a thought–would it be possible to make a “local” move that would still improve his quality of life a lot?

Thinking of my older relatives, they could theoretically have lived a lot closer to the airport he deadheaded out of. That would have put the wife and kids further away from her family (which would have been a bummer) but would have eliminated a three-hour drive for him on each end of his commute, which could have produced a significant stress reduction.

 

[UbiCaritas]

I know I’m really, really late to the thread, but I wanted to toss in my two cents.

First, I have a close friend who’s a pilot’s wife. She did know what she was getting in for, but what she hadn’t counted on was a) the airline for which her husband worked going toes-up, leading him to essentially start anew with another company and b) the sheer isolation of living in the middle of nowhere with several small kids. OP, I don’t know where you’re situated, so this might not apply to you. However, in her case, her husband would be gone for 7-14 days at a time, have a chunk of time off (3-5 days), and then repeat. Their house was in the middle of nowhere, and she says the worst off she ever was was when she would get snowed in for a week at a time with a toddler and a colicky baby. shudder

Second, I moved to where my husband lived when we got married. I knew no one in the area. A bit over a year later we had our first baby, and I embarked on what I consider to be the worst 12 months of my life–and I say that as someone who grew up in a home with an alcoholic mother who literally used her as a punching bag!

I didn’t know anyone. DD was a really hard baby–didn’t sleep, didn’t want to eat, just wanted to scream all. the. time. I couldn’t even call my friends from home to talk because DD wouldn’t stop screaming long enough. DH’s car had died, and while we could have easily afforded another, he decided that he didn’t want to get another car. He also didn’t help at all with DD, and even got irritated when I’d ask him to just hold her for ten minutes while I started a load of laundry or put the dishes in the dishwasher. We had nothing to do within walking distance.

So, in short: no one to talk to or even give me enough of a break to take a shower, nowhere to go, nothing to do, a baby who never stopped screaming and fought me about everything…I came very, very close to killing myself. Depression is no joke.

Today, we have a 2-year-old and a 6-month-old. DH is much, much better at helping with the kids, and I got help for my depression. Nonetheless, things are hard. I lucked out this time with DS being a FANTASTIC sleeper, but my schedule still consists of me getting up at 5 in order to pray/eat breakfast/start the laundry/put away the dishes, and I rarely sit down again, feeding the kids excepted, until 10 or 10:30 at night. (I’ve typed this in ten minutes, which is longer than I’ve sat down in days.) That’s what’s required in order to stay on top of the housework, laundry, cooking, etc. I’m not talking about “frills”-type stuff: I’m talking about sweeping the crumbs off the floor/being able to walk through the house without tripping and falling level of cleaning. I do have some local friends, and that makes a huge difference. Ditto having DH put the toddler to bed.

For a while–and this is a vibe I’m getting, perhaps mistakenly, from the OP–DH’s parenting of DD consisted of playing games with her or taking her to the golf course. That was nice, and I know she enjoyed it, but from my perspective it all meant a lot of extra work for me while he got to be Dad of the Year for doing fun stuff with her: I’d have to rearrange dinner plans, get her ready to go, get her cleaned up afterwards, handle the resultant mess from whatever game they played, deal with the resultant tantrums from an overtired toddler while he watched sports or played on the computer…I didn’t really see that as a bonus for me, while I recognized the value of it for her.

His wife may well be seeing this stuff through depression glasses (the fact that the OP doesn’t know what’s going on with that speaks volumes, though), but to her, being alone in a strange city with a husband who has taken away her support system while he’s gone and gives her a lot more work while he’s there may not sound like a really awesome solution. And adding in another 6-8 hours of work minimum per day of homeschooling while somehow entertaining a toddler and baby…? That sounds like a recipe for a total breakdown, given the circumstances.

 

[Xantippe]

So, in short: no one to talk to or even give me enough of a break to take a shower, nowhere to go, nothing to do, a baby who never stopped screaming and fought me about everything…I came very, very close to killing myself. Depression is no joke.

[snip]

His wife may well be seeing this stuff through depression glasses (the fact that the OP doesn’t know what’s going on with that speaks volumes, though), but to her, **being alone in a strange city with a husband who has taken away her support system while he’s gone and gives her a lot more work while he’s there may not sound like a really awesome solution. And adding in another 6-8 hours of work minimum per day of homeschooling while somehow entertaining a toddler and baby…? ** That sounds like a recipe for a total breakdown, given the circumstances.

Right.

 

[Xantippe]

Using the terminology of a different profession, the OP’s wife has gone into screen-saver mode.

She needs a reboot and she cannot (in the place she is today), reboot herself.

(Apologies for any totally mistaken ideas about computers.)

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Not as a pilot he won’t.

I have two commercial pilots in the extended family. Interestingly, the older one–who had been living about 60 miles away from his wife’s family for years–eventually flew the coop and moved back to his home turf a couple states away. He didn’t even attempt to divorce until the kids were all out of the house years later–and there was not even an attempt to get custody (of course the two youngest were in high school at the time). Before that, his normal commute was a three hour drive plus an 800 mile flight–very similar to the OP’s situation (I believe they call it deadheading). The wife’s parents have always been a big part of the children’s lives to the present day. I never heard complaints specifically about the commute, but he did eventually fly the coop. He had started out as a pilot in a now defunct small airline in his wife’s area but got on with a major national airline. The geography of that situation was eerily similar to the OP’s. The younger pilot relative has just finished paying his dues like the OP, has three little kids like the OP, and has recently moved his family to the same region as his wife’s family, which is one that he has no prior ties to–but it also happens (very fortunately) to be within easy commuting range of a major airport hub–I believe he’s able to just drive to work rather than drive/fly. Of course, it’s early days for them (they’re 30-something and haven’t hit the same age stage where the older couple had problems), but it’s interesting that my young relative has made that choice.

The OP is in a bad situation, but it didn’t appear out of thin air and it didn’t all start yesterday. Presumably they got here one step at a time. Also, they’ve somehow managed to have three kids in seven years–which is a significant stressor all by itself.

I would not encourage the OP to make any sort of “detailed plans” until he has made the sort of sustained effort on her depression that it doesn’t sound like has happened yet. This is a relationship that has suffered a lot of neglect while he has been climbing the ladder and they’ve been having babies, and it’s not clear that he is making full use of his time at home in terms of repairing the relationship. I would discourage the OP from overdoing home projects that are not in some way relational (unless they are especially important to your wife), especially ones that can be outsourced. Think hard about what tasks can be outsourced–lawn, yard and housecleaning are easy ones to outsource. Do not let yourself be eaten up with household minutiae when the main thing that is broken at home is your wife and your marriage!

I have actually had a few brushes with what had to be depression, and while I would not make the particular choices the OP’s wife has made, I would say that I can’t imagine moving while depressed, particularly (unless special arrangements are made), she will bear 80% of the brunt of moving. We once moved with a 4-year-old and a 2-year-old and it took literally years to finally get unpacked because my husband was busy with other (important!) stuff immediately after we arrived. And that was “only” with two little children! And I was actually feeling pretty good! Until our youngest was in 3-day pre-k, I just never had that kind of leisure–and I also found myself unpacking boxes that had been untouched since a move 8 years previously…

One of the times when I was probably depressed (although I didn’t know it at the time), although I was all about the baby, I was indifferent to and annoyed by the other members of the family, namely my husband and the toddler. There’s no way I would have agreed to a move at that point, and even if I had agreed to a move, there’s no way I could have coped effectively with it.

Also, the more troubled their marriage is, the less sense it makes for her to be willing to move.

By not moving, she’s making it clear that she doesn’t care about trying to make it work. Maybe I’m wrong, but no harm can come from documenting thoroughly in either case.

And yes, pilots, truckers, and other people who travel for work can and do qualify for great custody arrangements. Especially when the other parent isn’t working.

I’m dumbfounded so many Catholics think it makes sense for her to stay within a several hour drive of her family of origin than under the same roof as her husband. Only been married 7 years??? I’ve only known my husband 7 years, and again, I couldn’t imagine doing this to him.

Depressed or not, the good of the family still matters as she’s recovering. The kids need their dad, dad deserves to be a part of the family he’s supporting. They can look into childcare or housekeeping services, but unless she actually moves in with her husband and chooses that family over the comfort her parents bring, I’m not convinced she’s invested here.

 

[Xantippe]

By not moving, she’s making it clear that she doesn’t care about trying to make it work. Maybe I’m wrong, but no harm can come from documenting thoroughly in either case.

**And yes, pilots, truckers, and other people who travel for work can and do qualify for great custody arrangements. ** Especially when the other parent isn’t working.

I’m dumbfounded so many Catholics think it makes sense for her to stay within a several hour drive of her family of origin than under the same roof as her husband. Only been married 7 years??? I’ve only known my husband 7 years, and again, I couldn’t imagine doing this to him.

Depressed or not, the good of the family still matters as she’s recovering. The kids need their dad, dad deserves to be a part of the family he’s supporting. They can look into childcare or housekeeping services, but unless she actually moves in with her husband and chooses that family over the comfort her parents bring, I’m not convinced she’s invested here.

I think it could cause a lot of harm to “document” if his wife ever finds that. Plus, it’s not actually a federal offense for a mother of three little kids not to want to move.

I think it’s true that she “doesn’t care”–but that’s the nature of depression. When I had what was probably postpartum depression after my second kid was born, I didn’t care at all about my husband or older child (and occasionally wasn’t that crazy about the baby, either, as he had colic). In fact, as I’ve mentioned before on CAF, when my middle child was an infant, I remember looking at his toddler sister (probably not even 3 at the time) and thinking, “Hey, kid, isn’t it time for you to get a job and an apartment and move out?” I was just done dealing with the toddler, after being utterly besotted with her until I got pregnant again. You can imagine what I had left over for my husband, under the circumstances…Now that that toddler is 14 and still very much in need of her mommy, that whole episode astonishes me, but I was in a really weird place at the time.

I got over that eventually, given time, sleep, the end of breastfeeding, babysitter help, lots of date nights, preschool, time away from the baby, pre-k, a stimulating social schedule, etc, but I can easily imagine going into that state and not coming out again. Unfortunately, my husband didn’t really know what was going on (I certainly didn’t share the “job and apartment” thought with him), and he was in a very demanding phase of his career when we were having our second child (when we’d go on our only vacation of the year to visit family, he’d take work and work through the entire trip–while I was just barely keeping it together). I had to arrange all the stuff that ultimately helped pull me through–it’s actually kind of astonishing to me now that I managed to do any of it.

The OP is not going to get a “great custody arrangement” if he’s only in town 10 days a month and his schedule changes regularly (which it probably will for some time). This is like the mines of Moria in LOTR–there is no way out going backward, the only way out is going forward.

I just don’t see moving a depressed lady who doesn’t want to be moved being a fantastic idea–a move with little kids is very stressful and demanding, even under ideal circumstances and a lot of people fall into depression after a move (for example UbiCaritas and Hoosier Daddy), especially when living as SAHPs with no local ties or support. The OP has to be prepared for her collapsing after a move. Plus, if she isn’t willing to move, it doesn’t really matter what we think is ideal or non-ideal. If she were here, she’d get very different advice (including from me). It simply is a fact that the OP can’t just pull her strings and make her do stuff, so there’s not a lot of point saying what she should or shouldn’t do.

(Quick note for OP: I strongly advise waiting on having a new baby until your youngest can go to either PDO or preschool. Your wife’s level of functioning is only going to get worse with another baby until she’s on a more even keel.)

 

[Xantippe]

I was just looking at this:

quora.com/What-is-an-airline-pilots-work-schedule-like

"A pilot’s schedule depends greatly on (1) seniority and (2) whether they are a commuter or not. "

"The primary consideration for anything in an airline pilot’s life is seniority. A pilot who is at the top of the seniority list can generally get whatever they want in terms of schedule, while a junior pilot will have little ability to gain desireable days off (weekends, holidays, family events, etc). "

"At most major US airlines, a large portion of the pilot group based in a particular city does not actually live in that city. For instance, a pilot may live in Minneapolis, MN, but be based in Houston, TX. Given some of the undesirable locations that airlines locate hubs, it is little wonder that upwards of 50% of pilots in some hubs choose to commute.

“Pilots who commute generally will want to do multi-day trips, where they can arrive for work on one day, spend several days flying, and then commute home at the end of that trip. On the other hand, a pilot who lives in his base will often prefer to do day trips or turns, where they can spend every night at home. But again, seniorty will dictate whether a pilot will be able to get the type of trips desired. A junior pilot would be very unlikely to be scheduled for day trips that would allow him/her to be home every night.”

Apologies for any inaccuracies!

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I think it could cause a lot of harm to “document” if his wife ever finds that. Plus, it’s not actually a federal offense for a mother of three little kids not to want to move.

I think it’s true that she “doesn’t care”–but that’s the nature of depression. When I had what was probably postpartum depression after my second kid was born, I didn’t care at all about my husband or older child (and occasionally wasn’t that crazy about the baby, either, as he had colic). In fact, as I’ve mentioned before on CAF, when my middle child was an infant, I remember looking at his toddler sister (probably not even 3 at the time) and thinking, “Hey, kid, isn’t it time for you to get a job and an apartment and move out?” I was just done dealing with the toddler, after being utterly besotted with her until I got pregnant again. You can imagine what I had left over for my husband, under the circumstances…Now that that toddler is 14 and still very much in need of her mommy, that whole episode astonishes me, but I was in a really weird place at the time.

I got over that eventually, given time, sleep, the end of breastfeeding, babysitter help, lots of date nights, preschool, time away from the baby, pre-k, a stimulating social schedule, etc, but I can easily imagine going into that state and not coming out again. Unfortunately, my husband didn’t really know what was going on (I certainly didn’t share the “job and apartment” thought with him), and he was in a very demanding phase of his career when we were having our second child (when we’d go on our only vacation of the year to visit family, he’d take work and work through the entire trip–while I was just barely keeping it together). I had to arrange all the stuff that ultimately helped pull me through–it’s actually kind of astonishing to me now that I managed to do any of it.

The OP is not going to get a “great custody arrangement” if he’s only in town 10 days a month and his schedule changes regularly (which it probably will for some time). This is like the mines of Moria in LOTR–there is no way out going backward, the only way out is going forward.

I just don’t see moving a depressed lady who doesn’t want to be moved being a fantastic idea–a move with little kids is very stressful and demanding, even under ideal circumstances and a lot of people fall into depression after a move (for example UbiCaritas and Hoosier Daddy), especially when living as SAHPs with no local ties or support. The OP has to be prepared for her collapsing after a move. Plus, if she isn’t willing to move, it doesn’t really matter what we think is ideal or non-ideal. If she were here, she’d get very different advice (including from me). It simply is a fact that the OP can’t just pull her strings and make her do stuff, so there’s not a lot of point saying what she should or shouldn’t do.

(Quick note for OP: I strongly advise waiting on having a new baby until your youngest can go to either PDO or preschool. Your wife’s level of functioning is only going to get worse with another baby until she’s on a more even keel.)

Yes, custody or great visitation is very possible for him. And again, if he’s a pilot, there’s a good chance he can rework his schedule to have extra time off when he has the kids, and take them with him when he does have to travel. This is doable. Even a quick Google has tons of resources for pilots looking for variable possession orders. His wife is in for a shock if she thinks there’s no way he can have the kids 10-15 days a month.

I don’t think divorce is the answer. But I don’t think his wife sees herself being married 2 years from now and he can’t fix that. Heartfelt written communication about what a dedicated father he is and every way he has tried to make this work for the kids’ sake is a good start. A lawyer specializing in family law in his state will be able to tell him more.

If she finds out, how much worse could it possibly get? Maybe she needs to hear that she’s been acting like she’s planning on leaving and he won’t let her take the kids without a fight. Maybe that would help her see what she’s doing.

All I’m hearing is how hard this is on her, but she’s living the dream. No compromise, a begging husband never around, and a nice standard of living. She needs to budge. A total unwillingness to even consider it is a red flag and he needs to protect himself and the kids.

Look at it this way - military families tend to have lots of kids and move away from family…even postpartum. This woman either has a princess complex or just doesn’t value having a present husband. Either way, there’s nothing wrong with making sure he’s protected.