MP Signed and Ready

[rlg94086]

Every body brush up on your Latin. Salve Regina, Mater Misericordiae.

For me it isn’t brushing up…born in 1965…converted to Catholicism in 1990. The only Latin I knew until recently is commonly used terms from debate, biology, etc.

However, our parish has already added a ton of Latin to our liturgy, so I am learning. If I’m not mistaken, a parishioner to have a better understanding of Latin for a Pauline Latin Mass than you do a Traditional Latin Mass.

 

[Like]

I’ve got to say, my priest has said the same to me. Who knows…:dancing:

I’ve asked our 2 priest, but can’t get an answer as they are on loan from another diocese. They either won’t give an answer or they truly don’t know. A bit off topic but, does anyone know: Are all dioceses under an archdiocese?
Thanks

 

[rlg94086]

I’ve asked our 2 priest, but can’t get an answer as they are on loan from another diocese. They either won’t give an answer or they truly don’t know. A bit off topic but, does anyone know: Are all dioceses under an archdiocese?
Thanks

I don’t think so. IIRC an Archdiocese is usually determined by size…or historical significance? I know that diocese are sometime attached to an Archdiocese, but that is not always the case.

For example: I am in the Archdiocese of Seattle (which includes Western Washington), but there is a Diocese of Spokane. I don’t believe that the Bishop of Spokane “reports” to our Archbishop.

 

[KofC660]

Quite frankly, I don’t see enough people that care enough about the Faith to make a difference.

The only people that care about the Faith are already attending a Mass they find reverent, or they are so out-numbered by the various “scoundrels” at their Novus Ordo Mass that they and their fellow traditionalists won’t be enough people to rationalize changing anything.

To paraphrase Gresham’s Law: bad liturgy drives out good.

 

[obadiah]

Quite frankly, I don’t see enough people that care enough about the Faith to make a difference.

The only people that care about the Faith are already attending a Mass they find reverent, or they are so out-numbered by the various “scoundrels” at their Novus Ordo Mass that they and their fellow traditionalists won’t be enough people to rationalize changing anything.

To paraphrase Gresham’s Law: bad liturgy drives out good.

Have you seen a N.O. Mass telecast from the Vatican lately?
St. (I mean Pope) Benedict XVI does the N.O.Mass in Latin. I have seen a few on TV and on the Internet. Very reverent.

 

[rlg94086]

Quite frankly, I don’t see enough people that care enough about the Faith to make a difference.

The only people that care about the Faith are already attending a Mass they find reverent, or they are so out-numbered by the various “scoundrels” at their Novus Ordo Mass that they and their fellow traditionalists won’t be enough people to rationalize changing anything.

To paraphrase Gresham’s Law: bad liturgy drives out good.

Are Masses that bad in Gresham, Oregon? The KofC councils I visited seemed okay.

 

[KofC660]

Have you seen a N.O. Mass telecast from the Vatican lately?
St. (I mean Pope) Benedict XVI does the N.O.Mass in Latin. I have seen a few on TV and on the Internet. Very reverent.

Sorry to break this to you, but the average American not only does not live anywhere near the Vatican, but they aren’t the least bit interested in what the Vatican has to say about much of anything, unless they’re the type that gets mad when the Vatican issues a statement about abortion being tantamount to murder, birth control being sinful, and women can’t be priests.

In reality, Americans will continue to consume the same NO Mass week after week, and there may be a slight up tick in the Tridentine Mass, but nothing groundbreaking.

This may sound overly pessimistic, and it probably is, but the Church will have hundreds of millions of fewer adherents in the future than it has now. It is dead or dying in Canada, the US, and most of Europe. I just hope the Church can keep it’s Tradition alive in such places as Africa, South America, and Asia. Just as Irish Catholicism shaped what the Church became, so will the Catholicism of those three continents shape what the Church will become in the future.

A few thousand extra people at Tridentine Mass in America won’t save the Church.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

:yawn:

You’ll pardon me if I remain skeptical.

Besides it matters not WHEN the Motu Proprio happens, but rather what form it takes.

I believe that it’ll do nothing more than flip the (purported) legal status of the Tridentine Mass from forbidden unless expressly permitted to permitted unless expressly forbidden.

The Pope is not stupid, if this MP is a repackaged version of 1988 then it is a dead letter, the Pope knows this and that is why the staggering resistance.

There will be some modest increase in Tridentine Masses, probably only in the dioceses of those bishops too apathetic to bother forbidding it. I say nothing of bishops favorable to the Tridentine Mass because there aren’t any. They have had it within their power to allow as many Tridentine Masses as they felt inclined, and you’re lucky to find a diocese that has more than one, while most have interpreted the papal exhortation for “generous application” of the Indult to mean a Mass every first and third Sunday in some obscure (dangerous) urban parish or nusing home chapel (Cleveland diocese for many years) at an inconvenient time (like 3PM). Often it’s at a parish which is financially troubled in order to draw people (and some collection money) into the city from the more affluent suburbs. Or else it’s close to an SSPX center in an attempt to draw the Traditional Catholics away.

This is an issue I think many people are overlooking, the MP is JUST THE BEGINNING, once the hands are untied of those who WANT to attend (including priests) then it will slowly start gaining traction and will in fact become unstoppable. The backbone of every parish are the Catholic families WHO CARE (and generally are the more conservative), and once they start leaving for the TLM there will be a clear distinction between those Catholics who want to be fed and those misguided once who want to push their own version of Catholicism. This is about going where you can get fed and find shelter.

Except maybe this time your bishop’s picture will be posted on the walls of the post offices.

LOL, if anything the MP will once and for all separate the sheep from the goats, if nothing else it will show which Bishops want to make the journey more tolerable for Catholics and those who, out of a inexplicable anger, will stop at nothing to prevent the TLM. There is honestly no excuse to stonewall it UNLESS your intent is to cause harm.

 

[KofC660]

Are Masses that bad in Gresham, Oregon? The KofC councils I visited seemed okay.

sentinel.org/articles/1998-3/390.html

 

[Catholic_Dude]

In reality, Americans will continue to consume the same NO Mass week after week, and there may be a slight up tick in the Tridentine Mass, but nothing groundbreaking.

This may sound overly pessimistic, and it probably is, but the Church will have hundreds of millions of fewer adherents in the future than it has now. It is dead or dying in Canada, the US, and most of Europe. I just hope the Church can keep it’s Tradition alive in such places as Africa, South America, and Asia. Just as Irish Catholicism shaped what the Church became, so will the Catholicism of those three continents shape what the Church will become in the future.

A few thousand extra people at Tridentine Mass in America won’t save the Church.

I totally disagree, there will be a resurgence is conservative Catholicism, this up and coming generation is DROOLING for something to anchor onto and are repulsed by the previous generation.

 

[Like]

I don’t think so. IIRC an Archdiocese is usually determined by size…or historical significance? I know that diocese are sometime attached to an Archdiocese, but that is not always the case.

For example: I am in the Archdiocese of Seattle (which includes Western Washington), but there is a Diocese of Spokane. I don’t believe that the Bishop of Spokane “reports” to our Archbishop.

Thanks, that’s what I thought. My wife asked & thought I’d better ask others.

 

[obadiah]

I think there might be a lot more than you think KofC660. Hope springs eternal. Before I became Orthodox, I used to attend a Papal Indult Mass in San Diego, you wouldn’t believe all the people who went there. It was awesome. Please don’t lose hope, I have confidence in your holy Pope, he will make things right.

 

[KofC660]

I think there might be a lot more than you think KofC660. Hope springs eternal. Before I became Orthodox, I used to attend a Papal Indult Mass in San Diego, you wouldn’t believe all the people who went there. It was awesome. Please don’t lose hope, I have confidence in your holy Pope, he will make things right.

I have confidence in the Pope, I just don’t have any confidence in Americans!

The idea of being a Catholic in America is to make America Catholic. However, all I see is Americans trying to make Catholicism more American.

 

[rescath]

The Pope is not stupid, if this MP is a repackaged version of 1988 then it is a dead letter, the Pope knows this and that is why the staggering resistance.

Mark my words – it’ll have no teeth. Pope is not stupid but so far has shown no desire to actually exert his authority – ESPECIALLY over his brother bishops. If he were to bring the hammer of papal authority down on bishops, that would destroy the ecumenical posturing that has been taking place with the orthodox – and THAT Benedict XVI would never do.

This is an issue I think many people are overlooking, the MP is JUST THE BEGINNING, once the hands are untied of those who WANT to attend (including priests) then it will slowly start gaining traction and will in fact become unstoppable.

That’s my point – their hands WON’T be untied.

Nothing good will happen until the Holy Father consecrates Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Period.

 

[rescath]

I find it interesting that the rumor has Cardinal Arinze presenting the MP at a press conference when he in fact has been one of its fiercest opponents.

 

[obadiah]

I have confidence in the Pope, I just don’t have any confidence in Americans!

The idea of being a Catholic in America is to make America Catholic. However, all I see is Americans trying to make Catholicism more American.

Lighten up!!! You and I know that will never happen, the best we can hope for is for Catholics and Orthodox to come together in unity.

 

[rlg94086]

sentinel.org/articles/1998-3/390.html

Okay…vandalism in 1998 is a terrible thing.

 

[bear06]

LOL, if anything the MP will once and for all separate the sheep from the goats, if nothing else it will show which Bishops want to make the journey more tolerable for Catholics and those who, out of a inexplicable anger, will stop at nothing to prevent the TLM. There is honestly no excuse to stonewall it UNLESS your intent is to cause harm

Well, it would definitely make lines clearer on both sides of the coin.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Mark my words – it’ll have no teeth. Pope is not stupid but so far has shown no desire to actually exert his authority – ESPECIALLY over his brother bishops. If he were to bring the hammer of papal authority down on bishops, that would destroy the ecumenical posturing that has been taking place with the orthodox – and THAT Benedict XVI would never do.

That’s my point – their hands WON’T be untied.

I HEAR what you are saying, it would be utterly devastating if the MP has no teeth…by the sound of things however it WILL.
If the MP has no teeth, that will do more harm than any event of the last 40 years because it will destroy any hope that was left in the few who really cared.

Nothing good will happen until the Holy Father consecrates Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Period.

LOL, the MP will have no teeth but Russia will be consecrated? You have just turned the tables, if you dont think the MP will be issued I guarantee the consecration wont even appear on the radar.

 

[rescath]

I totally disagree, there will be a resurgence is conservative Catholicism, this up and coming generation is DROOLING for something to anchor onto and are repulsed by the previous generation.

Unfortunately, this resurgent “conservative Catholicism” represents a distortion of Traditional Catholic theology and is more dangerous even than modernism because it masquerades as “conservatism” by appropriating the title. In point of fact it conserves nothing but is the product of a Hegelian dialectic between Tradition and the modernism of Vatican II and the modern popes, resulting in a Hegelian synthetic conservatism which in no way resembles Traditional Catholicism – a theological school aptly described as “Neo-Catholicism”.