MSNBC Opus Dei

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Anna Elizabeth:
I’m sure this is of minimal interest, but I, too, would like to know more about the apple! Why did the mother ask her to identify the apple in the first place? Is this weird or what? :confused:

Anna
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very weird
 
Another minor issue brought up by the apple lady. In effect she was saying Opus Dei wanted her to see a Opus Dei spiritual director/confessor, and not just any priest. Duh! If you are an avid reader of Carmelite spirituality, it would be a help and smart to have a priest knowledgeable in it as a spiritual director. Another logical thing which slipped her mind. Otherwise, the priest may not be aware of what you are doing, what you are talking about, and may be detrimental to your spiritual health. Many saints have horror stories of priests who did not understand them and who caused great spiritual pain, distress, and unrest.
 
I saw the 6pm show. I guess it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be. Considering Chris Matthews–it’s as sympathetic as it can get.

I know the Work personally and completely happy with it. An earlier post was asking what the difference is between an Opus Dei Catholic and a regular catholic…If the regular catholic is a practicing and faithful catholic then, nothing. Opus Dei is a lay organization that has activities to help us to be better catholics. It is orthodox and I guess in the post modern secular society that’s enough to qualify it as “suspicious.”

I’m from Houston and the priest that is interviewed in the first section of the show is Fr. Michael Barrett also in Houston. He has daily homilies posted at www.holycrosschapel.org. which I highly recommend. Some info about Opus Dei is there as well for those who are curious.

in XT.
A.
 
Do you inflict physical and / or mental pain on yourself?
Red Meg:
Woo hoo! I figured out how to quote someone!!! 🙂

Sorry, it takes so little to amuse me sometimes… Anyway, Hmarie-- I am a supernumerary member of Opus Dei, so I’ll take a stab at this if I can.

Opus Dei is “about” helping people become saints in and through their everyday lives. I am a housewife with seven children, ages eleven and under. They keep my quite busy. Opus Dei helps me try to grow in virtue and love of God by taking care of my kids and husband and housework. Instead of viewing the stuff of everyday life as an obstacle to holiness, we view it as the means.

In practice, that means the following:
an intense prayer and sacramental life: daily Mass and Rosary, daily spiritual reading and an hour of mental prayer (half-hour morning, half-hour afternoon or evening); going to confession each week and a “circle” (talks about some aspect of the Faith, virtues, family life, etc.) every week.
doing my best work for love of God: we try to work very well, both externally (quality work, finishing the job through to completion, avoiding laziness, etc.) and internally (using work to unite ourselves with Christ and Our Lady, offering up work for various intentions of family and friends, working with the right intention and not out of pride or self-seeking.)
apostolate, or helping others come closer to God. Our apostolate is one-on-one, with our friends. Opus Dei members don’t go door to door or stand outside of Mass handing out flyers. My apostolate with my friends varies with each friend. With non-Christians, it may simply be a matter of giving good example or clearing up their misconceptions about Christianity, and always being ready to discuss my faith with them if I sense any openess. With non-Catholic Christians, largely the same, although as you already know, the nuts and bolts of their questions and concerns will often be different. With Catholics, it means many things: trying to help the lapsed to return to the sacraments, trying to help the confused better understand the teachings of the Church, and especially those who are already on the same page, trying to encourage them to grow deeper in their relationship with Christ, perhaps by tyring to pray each day or get to Mass more frequently.

This is probably far more than you ever wanted to know. Sorry for rambling on so much. I hope this helps! Please feel free to ask if you have more specific questions.

Best,

Margaret

Even if there’s no center in your city, there may still be recollections every two or three months, depending on where you are. You can message me privately with your location if you’d like me to look into it, or else check with the “official” website.
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Red Meg:
Woo hoo! I figured out how to quote someone!!! 🙂

Sorry, it takes so little to amuse me sometimes… Anyway, Hmarie-- I am a supernumerary member of Opus Dei, so I’ll take a stab at this if I can.

Opus Dei is “about” helping people become saints in and through their everyday lives. I am a housewife with seven children, ages eleven and under. They keep my quite busy. Opus Dei helps me try to grow in virtue and love of God by taking care of my kids and husband and housework. Instead of viewing the stuff of everyday life as an obstacle to holiness, we view it as the means.

In practice, that means the following:
an intense prayer and sacramental life: daily Mass and Rosary, daily spiritual reading and an hour of mental prayer (half-hour morning, half-hour afternoon or evening); going to confession each week and a “circle” (talks about some aspect of the Faith, virtues, family life, etc.) every week.
doing my best work for love of God: we try to work very well, both externally (quality work, finishing the job through to completion, avoiding laziness, etc.) and internally (using work to unite ourselves with Christ and Our Lady, offering up work for various intentions of family and friends, working with the right intention and not out of pride or self-seeking.)
apostolate, or helping others come closer to God. Our apostolate is one-on-one, with our friends. Opus Dei members don’t go door to door or stand outside of Mass handing out flyers. My apostolate with my friends varies with each friend. With non-Christians, it may simply be a matter of giving good example or clearing up their misconceptions about Christianity, and always being ready to discuss my faith with them if I sense any openess. With non-Catholic Christians, largely the same, although as you already know, the nuts and bolts of their questions and concerns will often be different. With Catholics, it means many things: trying to help the lapsed to return to the sacraments, trying to help the confused better understand the teachings of the Church, and especially those who are already on the same page, trying to encourage them to grow deeper in their relationship with Christ, perhaps by tyring to pray each day or get to Mass more frequently.

This is probably far more than you ever wanted to know. Sorry for rambling on so much. I hope this helps! Please feel free to ask if you have more specific questions.

Best,

Margaret

Even if there’s no center in your city, there may still be recollections every two or three months, depending on where you are. You can message me privately with your location if you’d like me to look into it, or else check with the “official” website.
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Why do you need a seperate organisation for this, is this not the duties of ALL catholics wherever they may be? I would have thought that sharing your faith was for all, not an exclusive few within a Catholic Sect within the Catholic Church. Unless I’m mistaken doesn’t “Catholic” mean Universal?
 
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walstan:
Why do you need a seperate organisation for this, is this not the duties of ALL catholics wherever they may be? I would have thought that sharing your faith was for all, not an exclusive few within a Catholic Sect within the Catholic Church. Unless I’m mistaken doesn’t “Catholic” mean Universal?
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Seems to me they share a particular spirituality…and with the subtle undertones of hostility in some posts, why would they not want to be with those like them? How many Catholics really want to hear that all your small trials and tribulations are actually paths to holiness? No, most it seems want to avoid their sufferings and discomforts…there are actually those who do recognize the joy in sharing Christ’s sufferings. Any apostolate is by definition serving a particular segment. Opus Dei is no different.

Penitent
 
IMO, the show was not nearly as bad as I had feared. I give Chris Matthews and MSNBC credit for not completely attacking Opus Dei. Chris (again imo) took about as unbiased position as I have seen him take. I thought the people they had on to attack Opus Dei were incredibly weak and did not do themselves any good, nor did they harm Opus Dei. I also like that they showed Saint Mary of the Angels Church run by Opus Dei Priests, Willows Academy, Northridge Prep and two of the local Chicago Opus Dei Priests (Father Hillary and Father Rocky are awesome). I think overall the show did more good for Opus Dei, then harm.
 
If I had any major critique it is that they not talk about the millions of Opus Dei Cooperators across the globe, nor did they talk about the OD centers and the many good works done by OD. Yet still, overall it was not too bad.
 
That apple lady seems pretty weak. If they want to attack the Church, they should have brought better characters than that 3 clowns. They all have issues, I think.
 
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walstan:
Why do you need a seperate organisation for this, is this not the duties of ALL catholics wherever they may be? I would have thought that sharing your faith was for all, not an exclusive few within a Catholic Sect within the Catholic Church. Unless I’m mistaken doesn’t “Catholic” mean Universal?
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There are dozens of organizations within the Catholic Church from the Knights of Columbus to Trappist Monks. Some are religious orders, others are outreach ministry or missionary, etc. Not all are equal. I view Opus Dei as a kind of religious order for lay person, although it is not classified as such (and there is no such thing because religious orders are for religious, if I am not mistaken).

Why do some lay people join “third orders”? (I am almost certain Opus Dei is not a third order). The answer: They should be joining them to further their holiness and the Kingdom of God. Not all are called, but if you feel a pull to it and know you would profit from third orders or groups like Opus Dei, there is nothing wrong with joining them. Quite the contrary.

A question to Opus Dei member: how does the Church classify your organization. And can you draw any parallels to other groups inside the Church.
 
It does trouble me that Tom Hanks will take the lead role in that antiCatholic, anti-Christian, and anti-Opus Dei rag “The Da Vinci Code.”
 
I thought Chris Matthews worked very hard to try to get the former Opus Dei member (the man whose last name was Cook) to call that woman and her mother liars. Matthews really browbeat that poor man and got him all tangled up in what he was trying to say.

I agree with the posters who said the woman and her mother and the so-called cult expert were very weak. My husband assessed it in a few words: “That mother didn’t want her daughter in Opus Dei and did whatever she could to get her out and back under her control.” The whole dynamic between the mother, daughter and “deprogrammer” reminded me of repressed memory scams.
 
StJeanne,

That is an awesome observation…the three detractors appeared to be guilty of the very cult-like personalities that they were trying to label Opus Dei with. Very good insight. 🙂
 
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Hildebrand:
There are dozens of organizations within the Catholic Church from the Knights of Columbus to Trappist Monks. Some are religious orders, others are outreach ministry or missionary, etc. Not all are equal. I view Opus Dei as a kind of religious order for lay person, although it is not classified as such (and there is no such thing because religious orders are for religious, if I am not mistaken).

Why do some lay people join “third orders”? (I am almost certain Opus Dei is not a third order). The answer: They should be joining them to further their holiness and the Kingdom of God. Not all are called, but if you feel a pull to it and know you would profit from third orders or groups like Opus Dei, there is nothing wrong with joining them. Quite the contrary.

A question to Opus Dei member: how does the Church classify your organization. And can you draw any parallels to other groups inside the Church.
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Hildebrand, thank you for your post. Opus Dei is not a religious order in any way, not even a third order. But the spirit of your answer is spot on-- different people feel called to follow God in different ways. God called me to draw closer to Him through the Work. While I’m sure there are many outstanding Catholics who could engage in this struggle more or less “flying solo,” I am definitely not one of them. I rely on and am grateful for the help I get from the Work.

As far as our “classification”-- Opus Dei is a personal prelature of the Catholic Church. Unfortunately we are currently the only one in the Church. It is a new category that was proposed at Vatican II and actually created when the Canon Law of 1983 was codified. There certainly can, and hopefully will, be other personal prelatures in the future. If nothing else, I’d like it just so it doesn’t appear that the Work has some kind of “special” status, when we’re just trying to be ordinary! 🙂

A personal prelature is a prelature (i.e. a hierarchical structure composed of a prelate, a presbyterate (priests) and laity) whose members are individual persons (like myself) rather than people who live in a particular geographic area. In some ways it is like a diocese without borders, but that can be a dangerous way to describe it because some then interpret that to mean that we are somehow “independent” of the local bishop. Not true. I am still subject to my local bishop in all areas that he has jurisdiction over. If my bishop announced tomorrow that everyone in the diocese was asked to fast and abstain each Friday, I would be as bound by that as anyone else in the diocese. I am subject to the prelate of Opus Dei (currently Bp. Javier Echevarria) in matters of seeking holiness and doing apostolate, which are really beyond the scope of a local bishop. So when our prelate reminds us that we are to pray the Rosary and spend time in prayer each day, as opposed to some other group’s suggestion that their members pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy and recite the Liturgy of the Hours, he is in no way superseding the local bishop. He is speaking to a matter which is really beyond the scope of the local bishop.

Please whack me upside the head if this is not clear. :eek: It’s a rather complex topic, and is made more difficult since most people are not familiar with the terminology.

Best,

Margaret
 
  • Opus Dei teaches individuals (despite their ages) that it is acceptable and even advantageous to leave parents and loved ones out of the decision-making process because “they will not understand.” Most parents learn of their child’s lifetime commitment to Opus Dei months and even years later. Many times, parents do not realize their children have joined because the numeraries are told to remain in university residences and do not move into centers designated exclusively for numeraries, so as not to raise any suspicions. Gradually, the bond of trust between child and parent is broken.
odan.org/questionable_practices.htm

New York – When teenage “Julie” told her spiritual director she was thinking about leaving Opus Dei, she says she was told she would never be happy and would go to the devil if she did.

Tammy DiNicola, as a college student, says she was told she would go to hell if she left Opus Dei. The two women, now in their 30s, are among an undercurrent of critics of what they say are aggressive recruiting practices toward young people and a culture of control at Opus Dei, a small but growing conservative organization within the Roman Catholic Church.

rickross.com/reference/opus/opus1.html
 
Lilyofthevalley said:
* Opus Dei teaches individuals (despite their ages) that it is acceptable and even advantageous to leave parents and loved ones out of the decision-making process because “they will not understand.” Most parents learn of their child’s lifetime commitment to Opus Dei months and even years later. Many times, parents do not realize their children have joined because the numeraries are told to remain in university residences and do not move into centers designated exclusively for numeraries, so as not to raise any suspicions. Gradually, the bond of trust between child and parent is broken.

odan.org/questionable_practices.htm

New York – When teenage “Julie” told her spiritual director she was thinking about leaving Opus Dei, she says she was told she would never be happy and would go to the devil if she did.

Tammy DiNicola, as a college student, says she was told she would go to hell if she left Opus Dei. The two women, now in their 30s, are among an undercurrent of critics of what they say are aggressive recruiting practices toward young people and a culture of control at Opus Dei, a small but growing conservative organization within the Roman Catholic Church.

rickross.com/reference/opus/opus1.html
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Lily, are you a member? Do you believe everything you read? ODAN is out to get Opus Dei…I suggest that you check out this site: interbit.com/blogger/OpusDeiFAQ.html#q24
Matt gives good well rounded answers to questions about OD.
God Bless,
Anne
 
Lilyofthevalley said:
* Opus Dei teaches individuals (despite their ages) that it is acceptable and even advantageous to leave parents and loved ones out of the decision-making process because “they will not understand.” Most parents learn of their child’s lifetime commitment to Opus Dei months and even years later. Many times, parents do not realize their children have joined because the numeraries are told to remain in university residences and do not move into centers designated exclusively for numeraries, so as not to raise any suspicions. Gradually, the bond of trust between child and parent is broken.

odan.org/questionable_practices.htm

New York – When teenage “Julie” told her spiritual director she was thinking about leaving Opus Dei, she says she was told she would never be happy and would go to the devil if she did.

Tammy DiNicola, as a college student, says she was told she would go to hell if she left Opus Dei. The two women, now in their 30s, are among an undercurrent of critics of what they say are aggressive recruiting practices toward young people and a culture of control at Opus Dei, a small but growing conservative organization within the Roman Catholic Church.

rickross.com/reference/opus/opus1.html
Click to expand...

Tammy DiNicola was the woman on the Chris Matthews show. The “cult expert” claimed that he had “deprogrammed” other Opus Dei members but was very vague as to the exact number. All of the anti-OD people on the show referred to it as a cult that uses deception and secrecy to recruit and retain members. Anyone who didn’t have those negative experiences is either under the influence of the cult or hadn’t been drawn deeply enough in to see the “true face” of the cult.

It’s the same with all conspiracy theorists–you either 1) recognize the conspiracy, 2) are duped by it, or 3) are part of it.
 
It takes years to become a member of Opus Dei, it takes but one second to walk away. That is hardly the definition of a cult. In fact, most cults are the opposite, they are easy to enter and hard to leave. No-one is stopped from leaving.
 
Corporal Mortification has been a part of the history and general practice of the church. St. Thomas More wore a hairshirt underneath velvet clothes. The Discalced Carmelites don’t wear shoes even in snow. St. Francis of Assisi threw himself on a rosebush when temptation weakend him. Parish priests wearing their habit in the summer. Etc.etc. This is the same spirit in which Opus Dei practice corp.mort.

To endure slight pain or discomfort to identify with the passion of Christ. Christ was utterly mortified his entire life…the life of a carpenter in the 1st century was not white collar. The cilis and the discipline are means to suffer a little bit for particular intentions (conversion of a family member, the healing of a friend with cancer, kicking a particular vice, etc.). When the disciples couldn’t exorcise the demon Jesus’ reply was “this type can only be cast out by prayer and fasting.” Fasting is corporal mortification. To inflict pain without any purpose is just plain masochism and that is a no-no in the chuch, so it is as well with Opus Dei.

It baffles me that people think corporal mortification is weird when done for Christ and loved ones, yet I see hundreds of people jog around our park in 100 degree heat in order to look good and attractive. That’s corporal mortification for natural and totally human ends.

Anyway, like what the priest in the school said in the show Opus Dei must be seen. What you’ll see is Catholicism practiced with great love and intensity for Christ.

in XT.
A.
 
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