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exoflare
Guest
Now (probably as before) you’re obviously just being disingenuous, going out of your way to look for negatives to project. If both people willingly started a family and raised children, while not believing to be married, this is a sin. I doubt they would get an annullment in this case either, since the evidence for one being married only under duress is pretty much shot down. Any other strawman arguments you’d like to try out?
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BelFarfalla
Guest
So a woman can just say in court that a man raped her. She will be believed and he will be executed? In this case it is the man’s word against her word. In Islam it takes the word of 2 women to equal that of one man.
She has no burden of poof that a rape occured?
Please clarify because i don’t think this is correct.
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Khalfan
Guest
The punishment for rape in Islam is the same as the punishment for zina (adultery or fornication), which is stoning if the perpetrator is married, and one hundred lashes and banishment for one year if he is not married.
Moreover, Ibn `Abdul-Barr (may Allah bless his soul) said
The scholars are unanimously agreed that the rapist is to be subjected to the hadd punishment if there is clear evidence against him that he deserves the hadd punishment, or if he admits to that. Otherwise, he is to be punished (that is, if there is no proof that the hadd punishment for zina may be carried out against him because he does not confess and there are not four witnesses, then the judge may punish him and stipulate a punishment that will deter him and others like him). There is no punishment for the woman if it is true that he forced her and overpowered her. (Al-Istidhkaar, 7/146).
In addition, the rapist is subject to the hadd punishment for zina, even if the rape was not carried out at knifepoint or gunpoint. If the use of a weapon was threatened, then he is a muharib, and is to be subjected to the hadd punishment described in the verse in which Allah says (The recompense of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and do mischief in the land is only that they shall be killed or crucified or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposite sides, or be exiled from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a great torment is theirs in the Hereafter) (Al-Ma’idah 5:33).
So the judge has the choice of the four punishments mentioned in this verse and may choose whichever he thinks is most suitable to attain the objective, which is to spread peace and security in society, and ward off evildoers and aggressors.
In Islam, we are not allowed to tarnish the honor of anyone. One is required to produce four witnesses when making an allegation of adultery against another person; otherwise, one will be guilty of slandering.
A raped woman is a victim that must be treated with honor and kindness. She is not required to produce four witnesses to prove the crime done against her, nor is she punished for the crime done against her.
If a person makes an allegation of adultery against another person (male or female) he or she must produce four witnesses to support such an allegation; otherwise, he or she is guilty of slandering, which is a grave offense in Islam, for we are not to tarnish the honor of anyone.
A woman who has been raped cannot be asked to produce witnesses; her claim shall be accepted unless there are tangible grounds to prove otherwise. To insist that she provide witnesses is akin to inflicting further pain on her. If anyone refutes her claim of innocence, the onus is on him to provide evidence, and she may simply deny the claim by making a solemn oath, thus clearing herself in public. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “The onus to provide evidence falls on the one who makes a claim, and the one who denies (the same) can absolve himself or herself by making a solemn oath to the contrary.”
As for a spouse who witnesses his or her partner committing adultery and the other party denies it and they are unable to provide witnesses, they are, if they so desire, to part company by repudiating each other by engaging in what is known as a solemn oath and prayer of curse (li`an). It is described thus in the Qur’an: “And those who accuse their wives, and have no witnesses but themselves, then the testimony of each of them shall be a testimony sworn by God repeated four times, that he is indeed truthful. And the fifth (oath) is that God’s curse be upon him if he is lying. And it shall avert punishment from her that she testify a testimony repeated and sworn by God four times, that he is lying. And a fifth (oath) that the wrath of God be upon her, if he has spoken the truth” (An-Nur: 6-9).
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Khalfan
Guest
In the case, both people willingly started a family and raised children, while not believing to be married, is different. If you married according your church procedure, and then you are invalidating the marriage by an annullment, which non-Christian world call divorce. You playing with these names for what, just to fool God. Because, divorce is prohibited in Christianity.
I remember a joke I read.
The easy way get ride of divorce,
Don’t get married at all.
You are doing it practically. No divorce, because it is called annullment. What do you call marriage? a conditional contract?
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Ella
Guest
Khalfan, please tell me this is a typo.
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Ella
Guest
Who is the witness of a marriage? God. Who do two people get married in front of? God. So if a couple is truly married, and then lies about something regarding their marriage in order to get an annulment, God knows this. Marriage is a sacrament. Not a ‘conditional contract’. If a couple convinces a clergyman to help them get a false annulment of a true marriage, God knows this too. That just makes the clergyman culpable in the sin.
And something I think you might not know: it is legal to divorce an abusive spouse in Catholicism. However you may not remarry.
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Khalfan
Guest
Sorry. Typing error. There is no law in Islam, that allows to use children for sex pleasure.
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BelFarfalla
Guest
And how does a women prove that she was raped?
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Khalfan
Guest
“Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery” (Matthew 19:9; see also Matthew 5:31, 32).
“Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery” (Luke 16:18).
“And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery” (Mark 10:12).
The only reason that allows divorce (legal seperation of husband and wife) is fornication. All other separations (you can name it divorce or annullment) are committing adultry.
What do you understand from the word ‘divorce’?
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BelFarfalla
Guest
Those verses are harsh verses to explain to men the harm done by divorcing their wives for no fault on the part of the wife. They do say that if the woman remaries it is adultery. But they are saying that the man carries the sin, not the woman. It is saying that he is forcing the sin and hence the stain in on him.
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Khalfan
Guest
Do you expect a bitter water test said in Numbers 5:12-31? No magic tricks are guaranteed in Islam.
Islam doesn’t say any particular way to prove she was raped. I think you ask any lawyer, how they prove rape cases in court. Situation, evidence, doctor report anything can be used.
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Khalfan
Guest
This is for men.
“Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery” (Luke 16:18).
And this is for women.
“And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery” (Mark 10:12).
It is prohibited in both ways.
The only reason that allows divorce (legal seperation of husband and wife) is fornication. All other separations (you can name it divorce or annullment) are committing adultry.
What do you understand from the word ‘divorce’?
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Booklover
Guest
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Khalfan
Guest
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Booklover
Guest
Is this the portrait of a good man? See here.
*Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589: *
Narrated Anas: Some people were sick and they said, "O Allah’s Apostle! Give us shelter and food. So when they became healthy they said, “The weather of Medina is not suitable for us.” So he sent them to Al-Harra with some she-camels of his and said, “Drink of their milk.” But when they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away his camels. **The Prophet sent some people in their pursuit. Then he got their hands and feet cut and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron. I saw one of them licking the earth with his tongue till he died. ***Volume 7, Book 71, Number 590: *
Narrated Anas: The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the **Prophet he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron. **
How about this? link
*Volume 4, Book 52, Number 280: *
*Volume 7, Book 71, Number 589: *
Narrated Anas: Some people were sick and they said, "O Allah’s Apostle! Give us shelter and food. So when they became healthy they said, “The weather of Medina is not suitable for us.” So he sent them to Al-Harra with some she-camels of his and said, “Drink of their milk.” But when they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away his camels. **The Prophet sent some people in their pursuit. Then he got their hands and feet cut and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron. I saw one of them licking the earth with his tongue till he died. ***Volume 7, Book 71, Number 590: *
Narrated Anas: The climate of Medina did not suit some people, so the Prophet ordered them to follow his shepherd, i.e. his camels, and drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they followed the shepherd that is the camels and drank their milk and urine till their bodies became healthy. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels. When the news reached the **Prophet he sent some people in their pursuit. When they were brought, he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron. **
How about this? link
*Volume 4, Book 52, Number 280: *
Narrated Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri: When the tribe of Bani Quraiza was ready to accept Sad’s judgment, Allah’s Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah’s Apostle said (to the Ansar), “Stand up for your leader.” Then Sad came and sat beside Allah’s Apostle who said to him. “These people are ready to accept your judgment.” Sad said, “**I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners.” The Prophet then remarked, “O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah.” **
Vickie
Vickie
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exoflare
Guest
Booklover;2401359:
Wow you really showed HER
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famdigy
Guest
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Khalfan
Guest
Is it righteous in your religion to kill those who give you shelter, food and medicine in need? Muslims gave it till they become healthy. For what? to get killed?
The punishment is a lesson and warning for cheaters.
So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates (Quran 47:4)
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BelFarfalla
Guest
So in other words its is the word of a man against that of a women. We know that in Islam the word of two women equals that of one man.
The point is that a Muslim woman who does not have witnesses to her rape cannot prove that she was raped. A man’s word will always be taken above hers unless she was beaten to a pulp by the man. And we know that if she cannot prove rape it was adultery or fornication… hence it is reasonable in Islam to either whip for execute a rape victim when she has no witnesses. And of course we know that the vast majority of rapes have no witnesses.
Most Muslim women in Muslim countries do not dare tell anyone if they were raped as they will be punished for being the victim. It’s a hay day for rapists… they can rape with mipunity with the victims protecting the knowledge of the rape.
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