Muhammad timeline.

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Mickey said:
Are you saying there is a chronological order?
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yes there is chronological order but allah didnt make his book in chronological order ,how? we know chronological order but allah ordered his prophet to put a specific order 🙂
 
ahmadhassan said:
yes there is chronological order but allah didnt make his book in chronological order ,how? we know chronological order but allah ordered his prophet to put a specific order 🙂
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Can you provide a link, or a book that details out the chronology?

Can you give a percentage of the number of verses before AH 1, and after?
 
ahmadhassan said:
yes there is chronological order but allah didnt make his book in chronological order ,how? we know chronological order but allah ordered his prophet to put a specific order 🙂
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In other words, you are saying there is a chronological order, but not really. :confused:
 
BelFarfalla said:
He did not kill or force anyone in Mecca in the early years because he did not have the military power to do it. In Medina he was able to get enough people to join him.

Hi
I think you know that Muhammad was the last Muslim to migrate from Mecca to Medina. Before his migration, he had already a sizeable population of Medina who had converted to Islam from Infidels. Was this done per force or that they got convinced at heart of Muhammad being a true ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH?
Please elaborate.
Thanks
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

You might like to read
alislam.org/books/
Introduction to the Study of The Holy Quran (English)
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paarsurrey said:
Hi
I think you know that Muhammad was the last Muslim to migrate from Mecca to Medina. Before his migration, he had already a sizeable population of Medina who had converted to Islam from Infidels. Was this done per force or that they got convinced at heart of Muhammad being a true ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH?
Click to expand...
Again, they were still too small a group to force their will on others. When they got to be large enough then they started the attacking and killing. Muhammad contradicted the teachings of Jesus by using force. Do you really think that violence would be necessary if Muhammad had been a prophet who followed Jesus? Jesus told people to spared the word and just walk away from those who did not want to believe. He never told anyone to fight and subdue those who would not follow him.
Muhammad was no better than any other war lord. What he did do was to bring a level of social cohesiveness and power to the Arab tribes. For this I can understand why Arab Muslims would consider him a great man. He took them out of their nomadic tribes and showed them a way to become a world power for some time. It is the same way history looks at people like Alexander the Great. But we don’t see anyone trying to say that Alexander the Great is a prophet of God and the best example of humanity to have ever existed.
A part of my family is from the Middle East. What you don’t get is that from the time of Muhammad on, it was my people and my people’s country men who Muhammad and his followers were slaughtering. As recently as the 1900’s my family was once again trying to get out of the way of the Islamic brutality. This is why many of my family migrated to the USA. To get away from Islamic brutality once an for all after over a thousands years.
Don’t ask me to now turn on my people and the horrors they faced as the hands of Islam and think of Muhammad and his followers as Godly men who had the right to slaughter my ancestors.
Muhammad as not a perfect man. He did some horrible things. His followers have been brutal men hell bent on conquest, killing anyone who would not submit to them. Until Muslims admit this, they will gain no ground with most. And yes I know that Christians have been brutal in the name of Christianity… we admit this. This brutality is in direct contradiction of Christian doctrine. Unlike the Qur’an that tells Muslims to chop up and mutilate or enslave those who will not submit to Islam. We are at least honest of the faults of our ancestors. I’ve heard Muslims make stupid claims, such as Muslims have only killed 1000 people in all of history and then only in self defense. It’s nonsense.
It does nto matter if there is no record of Muhammad killing anyone until he was 52. The fact is that he did kill people after he was 52. He was a thug, a murderer.

I’m trying to show you that there is another side to the story… the side of the thousands who were slaughted… most of whom were innocents.
 
Mickey said:
In other words, you are saying there is a chronological order, but not really.
Click to expand...
The Qur’an is in order of the size of the chapters… here is the order of revelations

submission.org/efarsi/arabic/arabic_table.html

Remember that later revelations often appear to abrogate earlier revelations. There is actually a theory of abrogation that some Muslims subscribe to. Others do not. After much thought, I do not believe in abrogation. In the Qur’an somewhere it states that Allah does not contradict himself but instead offers further clarification.

For example there is the verse about no compulsion in religions in the 2nd chapter. This was revealed in the first two years in Medina. But later Muhammad states that muslims are to kill the non believers. In the Hadith it states that those who leave Islam are to be executed. Doesn’t this contradict the idea of no compulsion in religion? Not at all.

There is absolutely no compulsion in religion in Islam. A person is free to act on their conscience. Once they have made their choice however they will have to face the consequences. A Muslim is free to leave Islam. No one will stop them. But then the state can decide to execute them for doing this. The state may not try to force them back into Islam.

In war Muslims are to offer people to convert to Islam, accept subjugations under Islam as non-Muslims or be killed in war.

Note that there is no compulsion here. Each individual can act on their own conscience. If they choose to convert to Islam… Then they are safe. If they agree to live as subjugated, humiliated people Muslims are ok with this because they get to tax these people and use them as a cash cows… No compulsion. If they reject conversion or subjugation then they choose to right.
See no compulsion in religion… there is no abrogation of this law…. Further revelations just filled in the ‘fine print.’
 
BelFarfalla said:
The Qur’an is in order of the size of the chapters… here is the order of revelations

submission.org/efarsi/arabic/arabic_table.html

Remember that later revelations often appear to abrogate earlier revelations. There is actually a theory of abrogation that some Muslims subscribe to. Others do not. After much thought, I do not believe in abrogation. In the Qur’an somewhere it states that Allah does not contradict himself but instead offers further clarification.

For example there is the verse about no compulsion in religions in the 2nd chapter. This was revealed in the first two years in Medina. But later Muhammad states that muslims are to kill the non believers. In the Hadith it states that those who leave Islam are to be executed. Doesn’t this contradict the idea of no compulsion in religion? Not at all.

There is absolutely no compulsion in religion in Islam. A person is free to act on their conscience. Once they have made their choice however they will have to face the consequences. A Muslim is free to leave Islam. No one will stop them. But then the state can decide to execute them for doing this. The state may not try to force them back into Islam.

In war Muslims are to offer people to convert to Islam, accept subjugations under Islam as non-Muslims or be killed in war.

Note that there is no compulsion here. Each individual can act on their own conscience. If they choose to convert to Islam… Then they are safe. If they agree to live as subjugated, humiliated people Muslims are ok with this because they get to tax these people and use them as a cash cows… No compulsion. If they reject conversion or subjugation then they choose to right.
See no compulsion in religion… there is no abrogation of this law…. Further revelations just filled in the ‘fine print.’
Click to expand...
can you tell us what is abrogated verses? i will show all ppl here that you dont know islam just copy and paste 😃
 
BelFarfalla said:
Again, they were still too small a group to force their will on others. When they got to be large enough then they started the attacking and killing. Muhammad contradicted the teachings of Jesus by using force. Do you really think that violence would be necessary if Muhammad had been a prophet who followed Jesus? Jesus told people to spared the word and just walk away from those who did not want to believe. He never told anyone to fight and subdue those who would not follow him.
Muhammad was no better than any other war lord. What he did do was to bring a level of social cohesiveness and power to the Arab tribes. For this I can understand why Arab Muslims would consider him a great man. He took them out of their nomadic tribes and showed them a way to become a world power for some time. It is the same way history looks at people like Alexander the Great. But we don’t see anyone trying to say that Alexander the Great is a prophet of God and the best example of humanity to have ever existed.
A part of my family is from the Middle East. What you don’t get is that from the time of Muhammad on, it was my people and my people’s country men who Muhammad and his followers were slaughtering. As recently as the 1900’s my family was once again trying to get out of the way of the Islamic brutality. This is why many of my family migrated to the USA. To get away from Islamic brutality once an for all after over a thousands years.
Don’t ask me to now turn on my people and the horrors they faced as the hands of Islam and think of Muhammad and his followers as Godly men who had the right to slaughter my ancestors.
Muhammad as not a perfect man. He did some horrible things. His followers have been brutal men hell bent on conquest, killing anyone who would not submit to them. Until Muslims admit this, they will gain no ground with most. And yes I know that Christians have been brutal in the name of Christianity… we admit this. This brutality is in direct contradiction of Christian doctrine. Unlike the Qur’an that tells Muslims to chop up and mutilate or enslave those who will not submit to Islam. We are at least honest of the faults of our ancestors. I’ve heard Muslims make stupid claims, such as Muslims have only killed 1000 people in all of history and then only in self defense. It’s nonsense.
It does nto matter if there is no record of Muhammad killing anyone until he was 52. The fact is that he did kill people after he was 52. He was a thug, a murderer.

I’m trying to show you that there is another side to the story… the side of the thousands who were slaughted… most of whom were innocents.
Click to expand...
can you support your talk with proofs 😉
 
BelFarfalla said:
Again, they were still too small a group to force their will on others.
Click to expand...
Hi
I think you for forgot to answer this question.
Muhammad was the last Muslim to migrate from Mecca to Medina. Before his migration, he had already a sizeable population of Medina who had converted to Islam from Infidels. Was this done per force or that they got convinced at heart of Muhammad being a true ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH?
Please elaborate.
Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
I think you for forgot to answer this question.
Muhammad was the last Muslim to migrate from Mecca to Medina. Before his migration, he had already a sizeable population of Medina who had converted to Islam from Infidels. Was this done per force or that they got convinced at heart of Muhammad being a true ProphetMessenger of GodAllahYHWH?
Please elaborate.
Thanks
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So why was force justified after Muhammad became more powerful?
 
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