Muhammed predicted the end of Islam.

[Sam_777]

Yaa Allaah, my head just exploded!

your Arabic language is getting good… :hug1:

Do you know nothing of the Farhud,

interesting, this is my first time knowing that!

as though Islam is some sort of conspiracy against the world to make us all speak Arabic and wear kaffiyeh or something,

FYI, there is a non-authentic hadith about Mohammend where he said that the language of Paradise is Arabic.

Nothing was specified for the Arabs in this regard, so it makes sense that Muhammad’s revelation would have to deny these previous books in order to confirm his status as a prophet.

I agree .

that there seems to have also been a sense of “what about me” involved in the entire enterprise.

I totally agree, Arabs had no value in those early days, so they had to come up with something to make them equivalent with their neighbours (Jews).:ehh:
However, I sometimes wonder if Satan took advantage of that since the beginning by seducing Ishmael when his father Abraham sent him to Arabian Peninsula, tempted him on how God have religiously abandoned him in the favour of Isaac, thus seducing Ishmael and his descendants to worship him by building the Kaaba and the 360 idols there, then he continued that with Muhammed.

I’ll be the first to admit that Roman Catholicism is culture-specific!

Can you please elaborate more on that.

:clapping: In general, I really appreciate all your time writing those two pages, I really think they should be lectured on one of the Christians TV shows, so that it can reach wide Muslims audiences.

 

[PerryJ]

PJ, divorce is wrong in Islam too. It is the worst thing that is permissible. I do not say Jesus stopped all divorce. He could not do that because of the Jewish law that he was following. But he spoke against the divorce and that what Muhammad did.

This is a good example of peoples perception being very different based upon their beliefs. You believe Christ has to follow Jewish law because he was a man. Christians do not believe he had to follow Jewish law as he was God. Jesus made all divorce illegal in the sight of God.
In islam divorce is allowed. Christains wrongly interpretted the words of Jesus and disallowed divorce. So the christians had to go to courts and to the legislature to correct the mistake of the church.

B]Interesting that you believe a earthly legislature can correct a mistake. God binds the marriage between a man and a woman. No earthly legislature has a right to break a bond that God created. People are not truly divorced in the legislature. They are living in a state of adultery and will face judgement for it.

PJ you do not have enough room to stand on. Recently M W has questioned why Jesus as a god allowed divorce to the Jews and disallowed it to the christians. Was it an after thought of the God Jesus?

Your statement is a misinterpretation of the Bible. Jesus did not allow anyone to be divorced. The verses I believe you are referring to are misunderstood because of the audience in which Christ was talking to. Man can not break a bond between a man and a woman because God created that bond. It is a direct affront to God to challenge his authority and his creation.

Whatever the church is teaching about the family relations is all wrong. It is not to be found in Jewish or Islamic teachings. And that teaching of the church is all against nature.

B]It may be against your nature, as we bear the burden of sin; however, it is not against the natural law of God. Divorce always hurts at least one person. May it be the husband, wife or children. No such act can be deemed natural. God does not create evil. Man being a slave to sin creates evil. Divorce is a sin that creates evil.

To expand God is one thought one conscience. For God to think is for God to do. Their is no separation. As he knows all from the beginning of time to the end he does not change his mind nor does he pause to think. As he thinks he acts. God creates man with the thought of his entire life. This includes marriage if God so chooses. God does not change his mind about the marriage of a person as God does not change his mind. Man disobeys Gods creation with divorce as God does not error and does not change direction. He is one thought, one action for eternity. By its very nature divorce in not natural and is driven by the evil of man and his freewill. Divorce is contrary to God’s natural law that does not bend or sway. Anyone divorced will face judgement.

This includes Muhammed. He had no right to break a bond that God created.

 

[PerryJ]

huh…if u believe Jesus (p) taught about Trinity , then he had a direct contradiction not with only one Prophet but all the Prophets (pbut) God sent to mankind .

The Old Testament prophesizes about the messiah, Christ. Christ fulfills these prophecies. He is not in contradiction of prophets he is the fullfillment of the prophecies. Below is a very short list of examples. I could quote pages more of examples.

Why do you believe he contradicted the other prophets? The Bible was created and defined by Catholics. The Jewish people did not define the Old Testament until after Christ was crucified. Catholic’s defined the Bible; therefore, what do you use to make such a statement. Muslims did not have historical records of Christ when Muhammed lived. That is why some of Muhammed’s statements do not match the Bible, such as his confusion of Miraim with Mary. Or some of his Gnostic beliefs about Christ. He was not exposed to true Christianity. Remember that Muhammed lived in a very primtive and remote part of the Arab Pennisula.

Jesus is the Son of God
Old Testament - Prophecy

Psalms 2:7 I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son ; today I have become your Father.
Proverbs 30:4 Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!

New Testament - Fullfillment
Matthew 3:17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
Romans 1:4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.

Jesus would be anointed with the Spirit of God
Old Testament - Prophecy

Isaiah 11:2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD–
Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,

New Testament - Fullfillment
Matthew 3:16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.
John 3:34 For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit.
Jesus would be a Priest
Old Testament - Prophecy

Psalms 110:4 The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”

New Testament - Fullfillment
Hebrews 5:5-6 So Christ also did not take upon himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.” 6 And he says in another place, “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”
Hebrews 6:20 where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.
Hebrews 7:14-17 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is declared: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”

"Elijah" would come just prior to Jesus
Old Testament - Prophecy
Malachi 4:5 "See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.
Malachi 3:1 “See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.
Isaiah 40:3-5 A voice of one calling: “In the desert prepare the way for the LORD ; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain. 5 And the glory of the LORD will be revealed, and all mankind together will see it. For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.”

New Testament - Fullfillment
Matthew 3:1-3 In those days John the Baptist came, preaching in the Desert of Judea 2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.” 3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah: “A voice of one calling in the desert, ‘Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.’”
Matthew 11:10-14 This is the one about whom it is written: "‘I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.’ 11 I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it. 13 For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.
Mark 1:2-3 It is written in Isaiah the prophet: “I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way”-- 3 “a voice of one calling in the desert, ‘Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.’”

 

[Dameedna]

but…but…but.

My dad’s bigger than your dad…and he’s gonna beat him up.

Golly gosh!!

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

The Old Testament prophesizes about the messiah, Christ. "

and Jews don’t know about it .

Christians don’t like it at all when Muslims try to say that coming of Muhammed (p) is mentioned in the both scriptures . But they love to claim that OT tells about Jesus (p).

Christians reject Muslims claim , Jews reject both Muslims & Christians claim . Looks like we have to wait till Prophet Jesus (p) comes back here or need to wait for the last day.

 

[PerryJ]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

and Jews don’t know about it .

Christians don’t like it at all when Muslims try to say that coming of Muhammed (p) is mentioned in the both scriptures . But they love to claim that OT tells about Jesus (p).

Christians reject Muslims claim , Jews reject both Muslims & Christians claim . Looks like we have to wait till Prophet Jesus (p) comes back here or need to wait for the last day.

Do you not have to recognize the authority of the Bible? Does not the Quran state this? With this do you not also have to follow the teachings of the Apostles as they wrote the Bible.

With this said the Apostles taught that the OT was about Christ not Muhammed. I have read Mulsims using verses, that we apply to Christ, and try to apply them to Muhammed. This breaks down in two areas. Many of the verses can not apply to Muhammed. Historically and geographically they can’t. Muhammed was never in Bethleham for example. This is just one of many examples. Second the Apostles started the Catholic faith; which, we can prove historically and they claimed that these verse are about Christ. How do you address these problems?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

… He is not in contradiction of prophets "

not a single Prophet taught about Trinity in OT . So , if u think Jesus (p) really taught it , then it is a contradiction with the teaching of previous Prophets (peace be upon them all).

 

[PerryJ]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

not a single Prophet taught about Trinity in OT . So , if u think Jesus (p) really taught it , then it is a contradiction with the teaching of previous Prophets (peace be upon them all).

I would disagree as here are some examples from the Bible.

1. The use of plural forms.

Pronouns, where God speaking, uses “us” and “our”: Genesis 3:22 Genesis 11:7 Isaiah 6:8. The most important reference is Genesis 1:26-27; it is here where the plurality is used in connection with the very nature of God. This last reference is the most important (and compelling) one because here God uses plural forms in the context of his own “image and likeness.”

The plural form for “Lord” used frequently in the Old Testament:'adonai (“Lord,” literally, “my Masters”). The vowel in the last syllable of 'adonai was apparently lengthened by rabbis in the post-New Testament period. This is thought to have been done to sharpen the distinction between earthly lords and the Lord God.

The Old Testament had a singular term for God, Eloah, which they occasionally used, but the vast majority of the time the plural form of God, Elohim, is used throughout the Old Testament. Had there been only be two persons within God, the Hebrews could have used a dual form Elohiayim, which was typically (although not always) used of things that occured in pairs.

1. Usage of “one” in a composite sense.

Even though the Old Testament teaches that God is “one,” (Deuteronomy 6:4) this does not conflict in any way with Trinitarian beliefs. On the contrary, it actually helps to affirm them. One of the most compelling examples in the Old Testament of the composite sense of “one” is found in Genesis 2:24. Two people (created in the “image” of God) become “one flesh” in the marriage union (and thus a sense of the “image” in a composite sense). The use of the Hebrew word for “one” (eXad) in other passages similarly demonstrates that this word means “one entity” rather than a strictly single, solitary thing.
3. Theophanies, where Christ appears in the form of the “Angel (or Messenger) of the Lord.”

The Old Testament presents striking examples of a Being who, although He appears in the form of a man, acts and speaks like God and is referred to as God. Mysteriously, He is both identified as God and distinguished from God. We find this in passages such as Genesis 16:7-13; 18-19; 22:11-18; Exodus 3:2-6; 23:20-23; Judges 6:11-14, 20-22; 13:21-23). Note also how Zechariah 12:8 equates God and the Angel of the Lord. These Theophanies were prepartory for the incarnation in that they anticipated the coming of a Heavenly Visitor who would one day be both truly God and man.
4. The “Son” passages:
The Old Testament describes a Being who is uniquely a human-divine Son. In the light of the New Testament we see that Jesus in His Being is the fulfillment of the Son of Man, the Son of God, and the Son-King (of which Solomon was a foreshadowing).

Proverbs 30:4

Isaiah 9:6 He is a son and child, but also the “mighty God.”

Psalm 2:7-12 (although the translation of “son” in verse 12 can be disputed) This Psalm describes a Son-King who receives the nations as His inheritance.

Daniel 7:13-14 This passage forms the background behind Christ’s use of the Messianic title “Son of Man.” Note that the contexts of Psalm 2 and Daniel 7 have identical strands of thought: the inheriting of all the kingdoms of the earth. The word “Son of Man” does not here mean “a mortal man”–one from among the “sons of men.” The point here is not that the Person is perfectly human. The significance of the title "Son of Man’ in this passage is fourfold:

His exalted personality as the One who comes from heaven and opposes the beastly human powers, which come from earth (Daniel 7:3)

His advent in conjunction with the reappearance of the theophanic glory cloud (7:13),

His free access to the ‘One who is an ancient of days’ (God the Father, 7:13), and

His universal and everlasting reign (7:14). (J. B. Payne, Theology of the Older Testament, p. 265.)

1. The use of pronouns suggesting more than one Person within God.

The LORD talking, uses both “Me” and “Him” referring to the same Being (Christ) in Zechariah 12:10
The Angel of the Lord speaking, uses both “from Me” and “fearer of God” in referring to the same entity (Genesis 22:12).
6. Passages that identify two Beings as God or LORD (YHWH).

Genesis 19:23 (YHWH in heaven versus YHWH on earth)
Psalm 45:6-7 (God referring to Another as “God”)
Zechariah 3:1-2 (YHWH calling upon YHWH: “And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan”

1. The Holy Spirit is linked with God and given attributes of personality.

All three Persons of the Trinity can be seen in Isaiah 63:8-10, but most importantly we see here the personality of the Holy Spirit. He is “vexed, grieved” by disobedience. This verb in Hebrew is always used in conjuntion with persons (or God and gods); never of inanimate things.

 

[planten]

PJ, that is no proof of Trinity. We also have the plural form of address in the Quran. That is only a respectable way of address. Such could be seen in the orders/ announcements of the kings too where they say, “We are pleased to grant amnesty to so and so…”

The church misunderstood the words of Jesus or the scribes did not convey / record the good menaing of what Jesus said. Just because Jesus said " Baptise people in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit…" That did not mean son was god , or HS was god. God is only one i.e. called the Father.

We have the Kalimah, “There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger”. This a very important basic announcement for Islam. It is world wide essential declaration for all Muslims. It is like the baptism in christianity.

You see that the name of Muhammad is a permanent part of the kalimah, the essential truth. That name of Muhammad is permanently attached to the name of Allah. Nobody can separate teh name of Muhammad from the name of Allah. Yet Muhammad is not God.

Similarly, the christians could baptise in the name of God and Jesus and HS. Because the teaching was coming from Jesus via the Holy spirit. So it would be necessary to tell the name of Jesus and HS. But it would not mean that they (Jesus and HS) were gods beside Allah.

There is no harm in baptising in the name of Father and Jesus and Holy Spirit. That is the essential truth, telling the source of the claim is via Jesus and HS. But do nottake them as gods.

 

[swariffin]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

well respected bro/sis , Islam is not a cultural religion . Anybody can become a Muslim -regardless of race, religion, skin color, language, geographical birth place, you name it

It is good for you to say so, Muslim Woman. Islam is not identical to Arab, correct? The problem is Muslim all over the world are following the Arab culture. Worse, they believe that it is better for them religiously to follow the Arabic culture.

 

[swariffin]

… Arabs are among my “adopted family” in that world, and may Allah bless them all (Muslims included!) as He also blesses every other people on Earth.

Dear Dzheremi,

Great posting. Sorry to cut your posting short, just to save place.

 

[swariffin]

I have given a reply to the above. The traditions of Arabs were more ancient than the Jewish ones. Dating back to Abraham. The Arabs did not have any book because no prophet appeared amongst them. Yet the ritual practices were going on.

Where do you get the idea the tradition of Arab were more ancient than the Jewish?

The Jews are also the decendent of Abraham through Isaac (the humanly legal decendant of Abraham). Claiming Ishmael (not humanly legal decendant of Abraham) as rooted from Abraham does not mean that the Arabs culture is more ancient than the Jewish. In term of age, the Arab culture was not even the oldest, not old enough to compare to the Egyptian or even the Chinese. Be careful with your history, Planten. You are just too proud of your culture, Planten, as if the Arab is superior to the rest of the human race. Be careful, there was a man who had the same feeling who died in Berlin in 1945.

 

[swariffin]

PJ, that is no proof of Trinity. We also have the plural form of address in the Quran. That is only a respectable way of address. Such could be seen in the orders/ announcements of the kings too where they say, “We are pleased to grant amnesty to so and so…”

The church misunderstood the words of Jesus or the scribes did not convey / record the good menaing of what Jesus said. Just because Jesus said " Baptise people in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit…" That did not mean son was god , or HS was god. God is only one i.e. called the Father.

We have the Kalimah, “There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger”. This a very important basic announcement for Islam. It is world wide essential declaration for all Muslims. It is like the baptism in christianity.

You see that the name of Muhammad is a permanent part of the kalimah, the essential truth. That name of Muhammad is permanently attached to the name of Allah. Nobody can separate teh name of Muhammad from the name of Allah. Yet Muhammad is not God.

Similarly, the christians could baptise in the name of God and Jesus and HS. Because the teaching was coming from Jesus via the Holy spirit. So it would be necessary to tell the name of Jesus and HS. But it would not mean that they (Jesus and HS) were gods beside Allah.

There is no harm in baptising in the name of Father and Jesus and Holy Spirit. That is the essential truth, telling the source of the claim is via Jesus and HS. But do nottake them as gods.

It does not mean there is no proof. You just simply dismiss any information passed to you. You just does not care the history and the development of faith. You just base your attention on a book with uncertain origin. But you have an admirable faith as if that book come from God, just because someone else said so even without any proof whatsoever.

Come on. Let me put this way. Trinity has been discussed by all people Christians and not. The Bible history has been subjected into rigorous scientific study and discussion by Christians and not. Now, will Islam open its Quran to be subjected to rigorous study by Muslims or non Muslim?? If you believe Islam is the religion of God, why not open it for the non muslim to have scientific study over it?? Huh… even calling Muhammad into short hand writing, is already an offense to some Muslims (But i agree not to). Yesterday, the Indonesian Government asked Google and You Tube to block all access from Indonesia, to the World Press blog, saying something about Muhammad.

“And Muhammad is God’s messenger???” Who said that? It was the Quran, and where Quran came from? From Muhammad. The same kind of answer I always get. In Jesus was correct, and now I really understand what he meant.

 

[swariffin]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

and Jews don’t know about it .

Christians don’t like it at all when Muslims try to say that coming of Muhammed (p) is mentioned in the both scriptures . But they love to claim that OT tells about Jesus (p).

Christians reject Muslims claim , Jews reject both Muslims & Christians claim . Looks like we have to wait till Prophet Jesus (p) comes back here or need to wait for the last day.

The Jews knew that the Messiah would come. They just didnot believe that the messiah was Jesus.

BTW, I agree to wait till Prophet Jesus comes back and be the judge of all people. In that case, there should be NO ACTION OF HUMAN IN THE NAME OF GOD.

 

[dzheremi]

your Arabic language is getting good… :hug1:

Thank you, Sam! This means a lot coming from you.

interesting, this is my first time knowing that!

Yes, I only heard about this pogrom about 3 years ago from an Iraqi friend of mine who read about it in a book written by an Iraqi jew who witnessed it. I don’t know if it is well-known outside of Iraq.

FYI, there is a non-authentic hadith about Mohammend where he said that the language of Paradise is Arabic.

I will answer that by saying that I am okay with Arabic being “God’s language” as long as we can also say that every other language is God’s, too. After all, Arabs pray to God, but also do Turks, Ethiopians, Berbers, Koreans, Indians, Maltese, Eskimos, and everyone else. God created us all, and to say that He wouldn’t listen to a prayer unless it was in His “preferred language” insults Him greatly. I cannot yet pray in Arabic, but even if I could, should I have to apologize to God for having been raised to speak English and Spanish and not Arabic? I can’t help how I was raised. The best I can do is the Trinitarian formula in Amharic, a related Semitic language: Bisma Ab, wa Wold, wa Menfes Qiddus, Ahadu Amlak, Amen. This must be similar to the Arabic words. Maybe the Islamic version of Allaah can understand it with a little bit of concentration.

And I understand and value the idea of liturgical languages, as long as they are used out of respect to tradition, local culture and other things like that, and not because God won’t hear them otherwise.

Here are some videos of different Christian songs and prayers, if you or anyone wants to see the beautiful variety that we have in our world. They are truly stunning, even though I only understand two of them.

The “Our Father” Prayer in Aramaic (with subtitles)

Another “Our Father” in Aramaic (very different style than the first one)

The legendary Fairuz sings “Ya Oum Allah”, about Mary (Arabic)

Ethiopian Orthodox song (Amharic)

Indian Christian song (Tamil)

Russian Orthodox Choir

“Ave Maria” (Latin)

Hermana Glenda (Argentina) “Nada es imposible para Ti” (Spanish)

Church in Juba, Southern Sudan

Coptic Christian hymn

Another Arabic Christian song: “Walady” (My son)

Maher Fayiz “Ana sakin” (Lebanon)

HM Ojala “Jeesus Kuningas” (Finnish)

Kurdish Christian song (I can’t tell if this is actually in Kurdish language or Syriac/Aramaic, since it shows the Syro-Malakaran bishops in the beginning, but apparently most images come from Kurdistan, showing the very deep roots of Christianity in that land)

(continued below…I think maybe I write too much)

 

[dzheremi]

I totally agree, Arabs had no value in those early days, so they had to come up with something to make them equivalent with their neighbours (Jews).:ehh:

I wish that Muhammad could have heard the message that we are all equal before God. I know it is said that he preached something like it in his last sermon (that an Arab is not better than a non-Arab), but I think the Bible’s words, which were written many years before Muhammad was even born, also say that and more: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Galatians 3:28)

This is a revolutionary idea, isn’t it? That we are all one before God to the extent that men and women are the same, and that no man is in service to another (rather we are all in service of God). It is still unbelievable to some people today, this kind of true equality (not just arab vs. non-arab, or man v. woman, or what have you).

However, I sometimes wonder if Satan took advantage of that since the beginning by seducing Ishmael when his father Abraham sent him to Arabian Peninsula, tempted him on how God have religiously abandoned him in the favour of Isaac, thus seducing Ishmael and his descendants to worship him by building the Kaaba and the 360 idols there, then he continued that with Muhammed.

Hmmm. Maybe. I have never considered that, since I did not know about the Muslim belief about the origin of the Ka’aba before coming to these forums.

Can you please elaborate more on that.

Okay. Roman Catholicism is a specific rite within the Catholic Church. Traditionally, its services were given in Latin, and sometimes they still are (at Latin masses). Other rites within the Church may use other languages in accordance with the history and common language of the people in those Churches (Aramaic and Arabic for Christians of the Levant, Spanish for Christians of Latin America, Tagalog for Christians of the Philippines, etc.). This does not make them in any way “less” Catholic, since Catholic (as a word) refers to the universal nature of the Church…so all of those people, with their own rites, speaking their own languages and retaining their own cultures, is actually a testament to this universal nature!

And within this Church, there is “Roman Catholicism”, which I call culture-specific because it is a certain rite that has its roots in a certain culture, just like the Maronite rite has its roots in a certain culture (the indigenous Lebanese Christians known as Maronites). The Maronites have been a part of Catholicism for many, many centuries, so to call them “culturally specific” is just recognizing that they come from Lebanon, not Korea, Australia, or any other place.

For me, Roman Catholicism fit best because my family’s only living link to Catholicism is my grandmother, who is from Mexico. The rest of my family is various kinds of Protestants, some atheists, etc. In Mexico at the age of twelve was the first time I experienced a Catholic mass, and I understood it all because I grew up with that language and that culture as part of my family. So for me to be Roman Catholic is recognizing that part of who I am, not excluding anyone else. Everyone is welcome in Roman Catholicism, but this is why I chose it rather than something else. If I wanted to be Maronite or some other Eastern Catholic rite, I could probably do it (I think I would need to get permission from both the RCC and the Maronite Church, but I don’t know), but I would have a hard time explaining why I did it. There is a big cultural element to it that I would not understand because the languages of the services are Aramaic and Arabic and these are not things that are part of my culture (though I am enjoying learning Arabic very much, and I love learning about the Arab culture too). And there is a lot of history and other things I would need to learn. I am still doing that with Roman Catholicism, and I was confirmed almost three years ago!

I guess maybe it’s comparable to how you say that your flesh is Muslim, while your heart is open to Jesus. For me, my flesh is Roman Catholic, and my heart…well, I would like for my heart to just be Catholic. This is a process, and I pray for it every single day. Insha’Allaah, it will happen.

In general, I really appreciate all your time writing those two pages, I really think they should be lectured on one of the Christians TV shows, so that it can reach wide Muslims audiences.

Thank you so much, Sam! I am very happy (and honored) that you enjoy reading my thoughts. I also value your presence and friendship here very much. May the peace and love of the Lord be with you forever.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

…They just didnot believe that the messiah was Jesus.

and tried to kill him or Christians don’t believe anymore that Jews killed him ?

I agree to wait till Prophet Jesus comes back and be the judge of all people. .

God is the judge of the final day. After the second coming , Jesus (p) will break all the crosses & will offer salat with Muslims.

Thus , he will show that he did not come to teach anything new but will uphold the message of Islam

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

…
If you believe Islam is the religion of God, why not open it for the non muslim to have scientific study over it??

who is preventing non-Muslims to do that ? Quran is available online , u can write to your local mosque or local Saudi Embassy & can get a free copy of Quran , anybody lives in Canada or US will get a free copy from our revert bro Yusuf Estet.

Huh… even calling Muhammad into short hand writing, is already an offense to some Muslims

what do u mean ? Muhammed (p) is respected by billion people in this earth . Some Christians try to degrade him by writing Mo. In other forum I almost started hating Christians when I saw ’ Mo ham head’. I really don’t understand it . Is it that hard to write a full name ?

“And Muhammad is God’s messenger???” Who said that? It was the Quran, and where Quran came from? From Muhammad.
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And Jesus (p) is God ??? Who said that ? Nobody . Not Jesus (p) , not Bible - not even the men edited Bible says that Jesus (p) is God. Yes , he was the way to God as all other Prophets were to their people.

 

[dzheremi]

How you know what will occur on the last day is quite puzzling. Do you know something that only God knows? Be mindful of pride.

Here is another good thing to ponder. The Word of the Lord tells us the following:

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’ (Matthew 7:21-23)

Muhammad certainly did mighty things in the name of God, and often called upon the name of the Lord, but did He do the will of the Father in heaven? Only God knows, but given the world of difference between the messages of Christianity and Islam, we can at least say that what constitutes that work is vastly altered by Islam from what it was earlier in Judaism and Christianity, in direct contradiction of the promise that is given in 1 Peter 1:25 and Isaiah 40:8 that the word of God will last forever.

By the way, 1 Peter is in the New Testament and Isaiah is in the Old Testament, so there is no argument that this is something that Christians have neglected from Old Testament times nor “invented” in the New, as is often alleged around here when there is no good refutation to be made!

This is a central problem in accepting the Qur’an: We don’t believe God to be a liar or speaking frivolously. God’s word lasts forever, God is more powerful than any of His creation, therefore the Qur’an is not acceptable for us, since we believe in what was already believed in the 8th century BC (a looooooooooong time before Muhammad), and was again stated in c.60-100 AD.

So Muhammad cannot be correcting anything, but instead altering it.

 

[PerryJ]

PJ, that is no proof of Trinity. We also have the plural form of address in the Quran. That is only a respectable way of address. Such could be seen in the orders/ announcements of the kings too where they say, “We are pleased to grant amnesty to so and so…”

The church misunderstood the words of Jesus or the scribes did not convey / record the good menaing of what Jesus said. Just because Jesus said " Baptise people in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit…" That did not mean son was god , or HS was god. God is only one i.e. called the Father.

We have the Kalimah, “There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger”. This a very important basic announcement for Islam. It is world wide essential declaration for all Muslims. It is like the baptism in christianity.

You see that the name of Muhammad is a permanent part of the kalimah, the essential truth. That name of Muhammad is permanently attached to the name of Allah. Nobody can separate teh name of Muhammad from the name of Allah. Yet Muhammad is not God.

Similarly, the christians could baptise in the name of God and Jesus and HS. Because the teaching was coming from Jesus via the Holy spirit. So it would be necessary to tell the name of Jesus and HS. But it would not mean that they (Jesus and HS) were gods beside Allah.

There is no harm in baptising in the name of Father and Jesus and Holy Spirit. That is the essential truth, telling the source of the claim is via Jesus and HS. But do nottake them as gods.

My understanding is that Muslims have to respect the Bible and can not contradict it. Have you read and studied the Bible? Your statement are wrong concernng the Bible and can be proved wrong.

Historically the New Testament as how we interpret it can be proved to be correct. Yet the Quran has errors in it. I realize this may make you feel that I am offending you however I posted several which you have not been able to explain. The Bible does not contain errors.

Also note that the Bible was defined by the Apostles which were Catholic. For you to suppose that you know more than the Apostles is interesting. Muhammed never died and arose. He never performed miracles. He conquered people. He reverted back to the old testament ways of the Jewish people. What I find interesting is the Muslim faith and Jewish faith appear to have great parallels.