Music Leader Thread Part IV—Song Lists, Suggestions, and Comments

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Our hymns for yesterday…

*Processional *Here I am Lord
*Offertory *All that I am
*Recessional *How Great thou Art

Mass: Mass of St Francis (Australian setting encouraged in our diocese. My traditional ears like it).

Chosen by the organist as familiar to the congregation in the absence of a choir.
 
Me too! :D.

😦

Wish I was there.

I know this is not a controversy thread, but I do have a question…

On second thoughts, it** is not** a controversy thread, so I’ll ask my question with a new thread! It will relate directly to your hymn list. 🙂
Well, you’ve certainly piqued my curiosity 😃

Gertie
 
So I don’t know where else to post this (I don’t want to make another thread in the Traditional forum). I’m trying to put the finishing touches on the music for my OF Mass Wedding. I have a meeting with the parish music director of the parish this week, so I want to have everything ready. From what I’ve been told that they’re open to chant and the like, so I’m going to bring all off the sheet music and everything.

Anyway, I’m trying to figure out which Kyriale to use. At first I was thinking IV, now I’m thinking IX. I kind of want to avoid VIII, too overdone. IV I like, but the Gloria isn’t my favorite (although I really like the Ambrosian Gloria, but I don’t think that fits for a wedding). I love IX but that’s supposed to be for feasts of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Although, I’ve read in some places that while that’s what is recommended you can still use them for other occasions. Technically there is no Kyriale that’s specifically designed for weddings. Does anyone have knowledge of this?

Anyway, he’s my current list:

Introit: Deus Israel Conjugat Vos
Kyrie: Mass IX
Gloria: Mass IX
Gradual: Uxor tua
Alleluia: Alleluia Mittat vobis
Offertory: In Te Speravi - Polyphony Orlande di Lassus
Sanctus: Mass IX
Agnus Dei: Mass IX
Communion: Ecce Sic Benedicetur
Post-Communion: Ecce Panis Angelorum - Polyphony G.B. Polleri
Marian Antiphon - Salve Regina

I have to figure out the processional/recessional music still. Anyway, that’s the list.
 
So I don’t know where else to post this (I don’t want to make another thread in the Traditional forum). I’m trying to put the finishing touches on the music for my OF Mass Wedding. I have a meeting with the parish music director of the parish this week, so I want to have everything ready. From what I’ve been told that they’re open to chant and the like, so I’m going to bring all off the sheet music and everything.

Anyway, I’m trying to figure out which Kyriale to use. At first I was thinking IV, now I’m thinking IX. I kind of want to avoid VIII, too overdone. IV I like, but the Gloria isn’t my favorite (although I really like the Ambrosian Gloria, but I don’t think that fits for a wedding). I love IX but that’s supposed to be for feasts of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Although, I’ve read in some places that while that’s what is recommended you can still use them for other occasions. Technically there is no Kyriale that’s specifically designed for weddings. Does anyone have knowledge of this?

Anyway, he’s my current list:

Introit: Deus Israel Conjugat Vos
Kyrie: Mass IX
Gloria: Mass IX
Gradual: Uxor tua
Alleluia: Alleluia Mittat vobis
Offertory: In Te Speravi - Polyphony Orlande di Lassus
Sanctus: Mass IX
Agnus Dei: Mass IX
Communion: Ecce Sic Benedicetur
Post-Communion: Ecce Panis Angelorum - Polyphony G.B. Polleri
Marian Antiphon - Salve Regina

I have to figure out the processional/recessional music still. Anyway, that’s the list.
This will be beautiful. I especially love Lassus. Do you have choir who will be singing this? I assume you are since you are doing these chants and polyphonic motets.

In answer to your question about the kyrie, usually the kyrie and gloria are not done during a nuptial mass. That’s not to say it hasn’t been done. My husband and I had both sung at our nuptial mass… also an OF mass. We used a Palestrina mass since we had a choir sing.
 
Actually, now the rite calls for the Gloria, and no penitential rite at a wedding. (Although I have yet to play one cause it hasn’t caught on yet, though a priest friend requires it.
 
Actually, now the rite calls for the Gloria, and no penitential rite at a wedding. (Although I have yet to play one cause it hasn’t caught on yet, though a priest friend requires it.
That’s interesting. Good to know. The only times I’ve ever heard both done at a wedding mass was at mine and a couple others and I’ve done weddings in about 150 different parishes. The rest never have used the Kyrie or Gloria, so it’s definitely not catching on yet.
 
That’s interesting. Good to know. The only times I’ve ever heard both done at a wedding mass was at mine and a couple others and I’ve done weddings in about 150 different parishes. The rest never have used the Kyrie or Gloria, so it’s definitely not catching on yet.
The change just happened in the last couple years…perhaps with the translations.
 
So I don’t know where else to post this (I don’t want to make another thread in the Traditional forum). I’m trying to put the finishing touches on the music for my OF Mass Wedding. I have a meeting with the parish music director of the parish this week, so I want to have everything ready. From what I’ve been told that they’re open to chant and the like, so I’m going to bring all off the sheet music and everything.

Anyway, I’m trying to figure out which Kyriale to use. At first I was thinking IV, now I’m thinking IX. I kind of want to avoid VIII, too overdone. IV I like, but the Gloria isn’t my favorite (although I really like the Ambrosian Gloria, but I don’t think that fits for a wedding). I love IX but that’s supposed to be for feasts of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Although, I’ve read in some places that while that’s what is recommended you can still use them for other occasions. Technically there is no Kyriale that’s specifically designed for weddings. Does anyone have knowledge of this?

Anyway, he’s my current list:

Introit: Deus Israel Conjugat Vos
Kyrie: Mass IX
Gloria: Mass IX
Gradual: Uxor tua
Alleluia: Alleluia Mittat vobis
Offertory: In Te Speravi - Polyphony Orlande di Lassus
Sanctus: Mass IX
Agnus Dei: Mass IX
Communion: Ecce Sic Benedicetur
Post-Communion: Ecce Panis Angelorum - Polyphony G.B. Polleri
Marian Antiphon - Salve Regina

I have to figure out the processional/recessional music still. Anyway, that’s the list.
I wasn’t aware the Gloria is part of the rite now.
As for the Mass setting, may I suggest using something the director/parish currently uses? In my limited experience doing a wedding within Mass, the bride and groom never asked to change a setting I was using.
 
I wasn’t aware the Gloria is part of the rite now.
As for the Mass setting, may I suggest using something the director/parish currently uses? In my limited experience doing a wedding within Mass, the bride and groom never asked to change a setting I was using.
That’s very true. I was assuming that this was all part of the repertoire of the choir in my initial post regarding this… If it isn’t, it’s best to go with the repertoire that they currently use, especially if the music director doesn’t think that the choir can learn it in time or well enough.

Some couples do request settings. If I can get the music I’m fine with learning new music, unless the other musicians I work with aren’t. Since I freelance a lot, though, I always go with the settings and other repertoire that the music director/pianist/organist/guitarist, etc. at that particular parish uses. If I have to learn a new one, I will to keep in order with what the individual parish uses.
 
I wasn’t aware the Gloria is part of the rite now.
As for the Mass setting, may I suggest using something the director/parish currently uses? In my limited experience doing a wedding within Mass, the bride and groom never asked to change a setting I was using.
The parish never does chant as of now (at least not that I’ve ever heard). The priest who is doing the wedding told me that the he talked to the music director and she is open to doing it and another priest from the parish told me a while back that she has done chant workshops in the past. My plan is to have four or five singers. I have my meeting with her tomorrow, so I’ll find out what’s possible (otherwise I may have to look into hiring a choir). Anyway, I’m going to do try to do Mass IX. I don’t think it’s an overly complicated Mass setting. Otherwise VIII is very easy to learn. Also, as much as I like the motet for In Te Speravi, since the altar, priest, servers, and people will be censed during the offertory, I decided that I’d rather have it chanted and then have a Motet for Ave Maria (Arcadelt) to add a bit of time.

Also, I don’t see why it would not be OK for the bride/groom to suggest a setting or things of that nature. They are paying for it after all. If I’m going to be paying $1,000 or something for a choir for my wedding Mass, it shouldn’t be seen as a bad thing to request what I want. Also, there is still 5 months, so if I’m providing the sheet music and recordings of the music, it shouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility for it to be learned in that period.

Anyway, I’ve gone through the Third Edition Roman Missal. The Missal states on page 1177 regarding the Nuptial Mass.
the penitential act is omitted. the gloria in excelsis (glory to god in the highest) is said.
Now, the thing about this is that the Kyrie is not stated to be omitted. In the EF, the Kyrie is completely separate. In the OF, the Kyrie can be a part of the penitential act, but it can also be separate.
the rites that precede the Liturgy of the Word, namely, the entrance, the greeting, the penitential act, the Kyrie, the Gloria in excelsis (Glory to God in the highest) and collect, have the character of a beginning, an introduction, and a preparation.
The Kyrie, eleison
52. after the penitential act, the Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy), is always begun, unless it has already been part of the penitential act
In various other parts of the Missal it has statements like
after the psalmody, omitting the penitential act, and if appropriate, the Kyrie (Lord, have mercy)
the Kyrie, eleison (Lord, have mercy) invocations follow, unless they have just occurred in a formula of the penitential act.
in this Mass, the penitential act, the Kyrie and the creed are omitted. the gloria in excelsis (glory to god in the highest), however, is said.
All of these things lead me to believe that the Kyrie is considered separate from the Penitential Act in the OF in which case, since it’s not specifically stated, is allowed to be included in the Nuptial Mass.
 
The parish never does chant as of now (at least not that I’ve ever heard). The priest who is doing the wedding told me that the he talked to the music director and she is open to doing it and another priest from the parish told me a while back that she has done chant workshops in the past.
I think if the music director is on board with this and has also done the chant workshops, you should be in good shape. She probably is excited to do it. I’m always excited when I get the request to have chant at a wedding or funeral. It’s so rarely requested since most people aren’t really that familiar with it or that they don’t care for it.
My plan is to have four or five singers. I have my meeting with her tomorrow, so I’ll find out what’s possible (otherwise I may have to look into hiring a choir).
That’s good. She should be able to make suggestions for you. Four singers would be good, especially if they are well-trained and musicians on top of that. I’ve done weddings as part of a professional quartet and we could put out a good amount of sound. Did you want all male or mix? I’m assuming mixed since you are planning a couple of motets.
Anyway, I’m going to do try to do Mass IX. I don’t think it’s an overly complicated Mass setting. Otherwise VIII is very easy to learn. Also, as much as I like the motet for In Te Speravi, since the altar, priest, servers, and people will be censed during the offertory, I decided that I’d rather have it chanted and then have a Motet for Ave Maria (Arcadelt) to add a bit of time.
I don’t see why you couldn’t keep the “In Te Speravi” motet. Don’t get me wrong, I do like the Aracadelt, but I’m leaning towards Lassus. The counterpoint is a little more interesting, according to my geeky music self. lol! 😛 That said, I find that the Arcadelt tends to be more pleasing and a little lighter to the ears, especially to those who aren’t as familiar with Rennaisance music. It might prove to be a nice counterbalance to the chant.
Also, I don’t see why it would not be OK for the bride/groom to suggest a setting or things of that nature. They are paying for it after all. If I’m going to be paying $1,000 or something for a choir for my wedding Mass, it shouldn’t be seen as a bad thing to request what I want. Also, there is still 5 months, so if I’m providing the sheet music and recordings of the music, it shouldn’t be out of the realm of possibility for it to be learned in that period.
Of course it is definitely OK to suggest a setting or other pieces of music, (I would die and go to heaven if the brides who request me to sing a song by “Adele” would instead ask if I can chant) but you also have to be aware of each of the musicians’ abilities and trust the advice of the music director. This is not only for the musicians, but also for you so that you can be sure that you are getting the best quality. Some musicians are of different levels and it would be unfair to request music that may be simple for you or I to learn, but very hard for another. You could end up getting a lot of hacked up music.

If the music director thinks that the schola you would like to hire is capable of doing this music well (and that’s the most important factor), then you are good to go. If she has a choir of untrained singers that has little to no experience with chant and polyphony, five months might not be enough time… although it could be plenty of time depending on the group. And perhaps she can get them to learn it well, but not have the right kind of voicing for it. Some untrained AND trained singers can’t sing in straight tone or with as little vibrato as possible and there is nothing worse than hearing a lot of wobbly voices singing chant.

Is there any way to audition the singers? Can you perhaps ask if you can sit in on a rehearsal just to hear their quality? Maybe come to a mass that has the choir. If you like what you hear then you’ll feel more comfortable that they will be able to provide the kind of music you want for the liturgy. If you don’t like what you hear, then you probably should look into hiring an outside group. I don’t know where you are, but there are scholas out there who will do this kind of music.

In terms of using the Kyrie at your mass, just ask the priest. If he’s ok with it, then go ahead. Like I mentioned before it’s rarely done, but our priest had no probably doing it.
 
I don’t see why you couldn’t keep the “In Te Speravi” motet. Don’t get me wrong, I do like the Aracadelt, but I’m leaning towards Lassus. The counterpoint is a little more interesting, according to my geeky music self. lol! 😛 That said, I find that the Arcadelt tends to be more pleasing and a little lighter to the ears, especially to those who aren’t as familiar with Rennaisance music. It might prove to be a nice counterbalance to the chant.
The timing difference is actually not too great between the two peaces. I’m just worrying about having the Offertory song end and then completely silence for a couple of minutes. Whereas if you split it up between two songs it’s much easier to put a short break in there before starting the motet. I’m not sure how it would sound to go from motet to chant or motet to motet rather than chant to motet (which I’ve heard tons of times). That was my thinking behind it. Also, if I’m going to worry about the talent of the group, then I’d rather pick things that are slightly easier. Hearing the Lassus and also seeing the music sheet compared with the Arcadelt is a world of difference :D. Anyway, I’ll see how it works out tomorrow. I know for sure that the priest is super excited to be doing a Mass like this.
 
The timing difference is actually not too great between the two peaces. I’m just worrying about having the Offertory song end and then completely silence for a couple of minutes. Whereas if you split it up between two songs it’s much easier to put a short break in there before starting the motet. I’m not sure how it would sound to go from motet to chant or motet to motet rather than chant to motet (which I’ve heard tons of times). That was my thinking behind it. ** Also, if I’m going to worry about the talent of the group, then I’d rather pick things that are slightly easier. Hearing the Lassus and also seeing the music sheet compared with the Arcadelt is a world of difference :D. Anyway, I’ll see how it works out tomorrow.**
Ah, yes, that is definitely very true! 🙂
 
Candlemas (Church of England)

Introit: Sing we of the Blessed Mother (Abbot’s Leigh)
Gradual: In his temple now behold him (Westminster Abbey)
Offertory: King of glory, King of peace (Gwalchmai)
Communion: Faithful vigil ended (Pastor pastorum)
Final: Love divine, all loves excelling (Blaenwern)

We’ll sing the Nunc Dimittis using the 1662 BCP version to Anglican Chant.
 
Symphorian, Sing we of the Blessed Mother is my favourite Marian hymns. In fact Church of England Marian hymns are much better than the ones we have(we often have a peak in the New English Hymnal!). I know that the Book of Common Prayer still recognises the Purification of the Blessed Virgin Mary, hence I suppose the recognition in the hymnody. Excellent stuff.
 
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