Muslim asked, "If Jesus is God, then why did his Apostle John write in his Gospel, after seeing and spending years with Jesus, that 'No one has ever s

  • Thread starter Thread starter 1Tim215Mommy
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
1Tim215Mommy said:
Good question. Answers anyone?
Click to expand...
Friend, the wording on this thread aren’t the accurate words written by John. Jesus says "no one has seen the Father, except the one who is OF God. And the context is still being fleshed out ( no pun intended) as Jesus continues the clarification in the rest of the dialogue.

MJ
 
Always look at the context of the quote. Bible quotes taken out of context cause much confusion.
 
1Tim215Mommy said:
Jesus is not to be considered fully God by Orthodox Christians!? The council declared Mary as Theotokos to confirm that Jesus is fully God and fully human. The human and divine natures of Jesus are fully united - hypostatic Union not hypostatic Separation. Jesus is not God spiritually and human physically rather Jesus is human physically and spiritually + Jesus is God physically and spiritually.

Everyone agrees that Jesus is human, but Christians are either right or wrong that Jesus is also God.

Why would the Apostle John write that neither he nor anyone else ever saw God if Jesus is actually Who we say He claimed to be: God?
Click to expand...
Are you a Monothelete? It is clear there are two natures in our lord from the decree of the council of Chalcedon itself. That is what I subscribe to, there are two natures humanity and divinity. JEsus has at all times possessed his divinity and then added to his person a human nature, the divine nature was not changed nor did it comingle with the flesh which Jesus dwelt in.

I am in no way differing from what the Orthodox church says when I say when the apostles looked upon Jesus in his humanity they were not looking at the divinity of God. They were seeing the person Christ in his human nature however who also possessed a divine eternal nature.
 
Servant19 said:
So is there a distinction between God, and the Father in Catholicism?

What is the difference between God and the Father?
Click to expand...
Its (name removed by moderator)roper to think of God as being distinct from any one of the persons of the trinity for they are all God. The fathers says to his son that the son’s throne is forever. What there is in the trinity is the single one substance which the three persons share, the three persons are exactly as the term person implies, individual intelligences that share the same essence
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
Its (name removed by moderator)roper to think of God as being distinct from any one of the persons of the trinity for they are all God. The fathers says to his son that the son’s throne is forever. What there is in the trinity is the single one substance which the three persons share, the three persons are exactly as the term person implies, individual intelligences that share the same essence
Click to expand...
So what is the difference between the Father and the Son?
 
Servant19 said:
So the Son is a distinct and separate Entity from the Father?
Click to expand...
I don’t know if “Entity” is the word to use here.

There is only One God.
God is One in Being and Three in Person.
This One God is Three Distinct Persons: Father Son & Holy Spirit.

The definition of “person” in this context means to have mind, will,
emotion, consciousness, etc, and it is in this way that the Father
Son & Holy Spirit is each a distinct person within the One Being
of God, how each has his own “personal existence.”
 
Judas_Thaddeus said:
I don’t know if “Entity” is the word to use here.

There is only One God.
God is One in Being and Three in Person.
This One God is Three Distinct Persons: Father Son & Holy Spirit.

The definition of “person” in this context means to have mind, will,
emotion, consciousness, etc, and it is in this way that the Father
Son & Holy Spirit is each a distinct person within the One Being
of God, how each has his own “personal existence.”
Click to expand...
THANKYOU for defining “person” here Judas 🙂

It explains a LOT and aligns with Bahai thinking totally

As you were ladies and gents 🙂
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
JEsus has at all times possessed his divinity and then added to his person a human nature, the divine nature was not changed nor did it comingle with the flesh which Jesus dwelt in.
Click to expand...
I am getting confused by what I think you’re saying as I’ve never heard anything like it before. To clarify are you trying to convey that the Person of Jesus (at once both God and Man) is completely separate from His Body (not divine, but human only)?
 
In John 1:18, the context is the people of the Old Testament who never saw God with John the Baptist being the last of the Old Testament prophets. Many are about to see Jesus as he is about to start with his ministry.

In 1 John 4:12, I interpret it to mean that no living mortal man has ever seen God the Father since the apostle John uses the words “God” and “the Father” interchangeably and calls Jesus the Son of God.

“No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his own Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.” - 1 John 4:12-15

By the way, Muslims think that it’s blasphemy to call God our Father. And they also think that it’s blasphemy to call Jesus the Son of God. So, it’s seems odd that he would choose from these verses to try to make his case for Islam.
 
IgnatianPhilo said:
JEsus has at all times possessed his divinity and then added to his person a human nature, the divine nature was not changed nor did it comingle with the flesh which Jesus dwelt in.
Click to expand...
I am getting confused by what I think you’re saying as I’ve never heard anything like it before. To clarify are you trying to convey that the Person of Jesus (at once both God and Man) is completely separate from His Body (not divine, but human only)?
 
1Tim215Mommy said:
I am getting confused by what I think you’re saying as I’ve never heard anything like it before. To clarify are you trying to convey that the Person of Jesus (at once both God and Man) is completely separate from His Body (not divine, but human only)?
Click to expand...
What I’m saying is not new, to quote chalcedon:

One and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten God (μονογενῆ Θεὸν), the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ;

There are two natures which are not be thought of as mixing or being confused with each other. The humanity of Jesus was his humanity not his divine and eternal nature which has always existed. I’m not a monophysite.
 
Read this question carefully. " after SEEING Jesus …no one has SEEN God". That is correct because Jesus the Son is a TRANSFORMATION of God in heaven, while He was here on earth. Man cannot see God the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit as they TRULY are, in this life. The first and third Persons in the Holy Trinity dwelled within Him, known as Jesus. Jesus took the FORM of a man to live and experience the life of a man and die a human mans death to destroy sin and renew mans quest for eternal truth. He came to deliver GODS path for us to follow, in order for you and I to gain eternal life with Him. If this Muslim questions such a statement, made from an Apostle of Jesus, then he either is searching for truth and may be seeking the true God, or he is trying to trick you just like Satan tried to trick Jesus while He was in the desert for 40 days. A truly religious Muslim would not likely ask this, for they seek good and justice. A RADICAL Muslim is destructive to Christian beliefs. By the way, God can be SEEN, in our earths beauty and in the hearts of all good people throughout the world.
 
One must understand that in ISLAMIC theology, the term God or Allah is in reference to the FATHER.

This may allow for some more clarity on this matter 🙂
 
1Tim215Mommy said:
Good question. Answers anyone?
Click to expand...
Re:/ Muslim asked, "If Jesus is God, then why did his Apostle John write in his Gospel, after seeing and spending years with Jesus, that 'No one has ever seen God’?

This reference to the Gospel to John is incorrect first of all. The verse is:

** John 6:46**
46 Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father.

Therefore, Jesus is telling us that no one has seen the Father.…not that no one has seen God, EXCEPT him (Jesus) who is from God. One day we too will see God the Father, face-to-face, when we are in heaven.

Nonetheless, …

Elsewhere in the Bible Jesus tells us:

John 14:9
“Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father”

because…

Colossians 2:9
9 For in him (Jesus) the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily,

Therefore, Jesus is telling us that no one has seen the Father except through Him, Jesus.

blessings,
CEM
 
MartinJordan said:
Why is,A Muslim,using a Bible verse when they say the Bible is corrupted? Intellectually dishonest imo and an insult to intelligence. :tsktsk:

MJ
Click to expand...
For the same reason we would look for inconsistencies in the Qu’ran…to get them to think.

Therefore, it is only fair that a non-believer should ask us to explain apparent difficulties presented by our holy book.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top