Muslim asked, "If Jesus is God, then why did his Apostle John write in his Gospel, after seeing and spending years with Jesus, that 'No one has ever s

[MartinJordan]

For the same reason we would look for inconsistencies in the Qu’ran…to get them to think.

Therefore, it is only fair that a non-believer should ask us to explain apparent difficulties presented by our holy book.

No. The onus is on the latter writings (Qur’an) and it’s followers who have to explain using their OWN sources of exactly how Christians corrupted the writings (Bible). Besides Muslims are using preconceived notion as the OP worded this thread question. Stopping at one verse!

MJ

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

Read this question carefully. " after SEEING Jesus …no one has SEEN God". That is correct because Jesus the Son is a TRANSFORMATION of God in heaven, while He was here on earth. Man cannot see God the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit as they TRULY are, in this life. The first and third Persons in the Holy Trinity dwelled within Him, known as Jesus. Jesus took the FORM of a man to live and experience the life of a man and die a human mans death to destroy sin and renew mans quest for eternal truth. He came to deliver GODS path for us to follow, in order for you and I to gain eternal life with Him. If this Muslim questions such a statement, made from an Apostle of Jesus, then he either is searching for truth and may be seeking the true God, or he is trying to trick you just like Satan tried to trick Jesus while He was in the desert for 40 days. A truly religious Muslim would not likely ask this, for they seek good and justice. A RADICAL Muslim is destructive to Christian beliefs. By the way, God can be SEEN, in our earths beauty and in the hearts of all good people throughout the world.

The Transfiguration witnessed by St. John was a fake?

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

Re:/ Muslim asked, "If Jesus is God, then why did his Apostle John write in his Gospel, after seeing and spending years with Jesus, that 'No one has ever seen God’?

This reference to the Gospel to John is incorrect first of all. The verse is:

** John 6:46**
46 Not that any one has seen the Father except him who is from God; he has seen the Father.

Therefore, Jesus is telling us that no one has seen the Father.…not that no one has seen God, EXCEPT him (Jesus) who is from God. One day we too will see God the Father, face-to-face, when we are in heaven.

Nonetheless, …

Elsewhere in the Bible Jesus tells us:

John 14:9
“Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father”

because…

Colossians 2:9
9 For in him (Jesus) the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily,

Therefore, Jesus is telling us that no one has seen the Father except through Him, Jesus.

blessings,
CEM

I should have referenced the exact passage in the op: John 1:18 “No one has ever seen God.”

We Christians claim that Jesus is God, the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity, and St. John the Apostle saw Him over the course of years and even was witness to Jesus’ Transfiguration yet St. John by this verse says that neither he nor anyone else has ever seen God.

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

What I’m saying is not new, to quote chalcedon:

One and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten God (μονογενῆ Θεὸν), the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ;

Pardon me, but I’m still not comprehending how you’re arriving at the conclusion that Jesus is God, except His Body. This is what I’ve never ever heard of before.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Pardon me, but I’m still not comprehending how you’re arriving at the conclusion that Jesus is God, except His Body. This is what I’ve never ever heard of before.

Then you haven’t been taught well. Do you really think the apostles were looking on the eternal uncreated essence which is God when they saw Jesus Christ? Or were they looking at a man?

 

[livingwordunity]

I should have referenced the exact passage in the op: John 1:18 “No one has ever seen God.”

We Christians claim that Jesus is God, the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity, and St. John the Apostle saw Him over the course of years and even was witness to Jesus’ Transfiguration yet St. John by this verse says that neither he nor anyone else has ever seen God.

Context, context, context. In John 1:18, the narrative is about the people of the Old Testament. The verse is talking about how things were before Jesus came. And as someone else pointed out, no one has seen the Father except through Jesus.

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

Then you haven’t been taught well. Do you really think the apostles were looking on the eternal uncreated essence which is God when they saw Jesus Christ? Or were they looking at a man?

I believe, based on our Church Teachings, that the Apostles were looking at Jesus Christ our God. Christ can Not be divided. And that at the Transfiguration they were given the gift of being able to see Him in all His glory.

When you look at the Eucharist do you look at Jesus’ Body & Blood or do you look at bread & wine? If you follow the Orthodox Church Teaching you know you are looking at Jesus’ Body & Blood and would always refer to the Eucharist as what It really is Not what a non-believer thinks they’re seeing.

Either Jesus is or isn’t fully God/fully Man, Christ can’t be divided into different parts.

 

[MartinJordan]

I should have referenced the exact passage in the op: John 1:18 “No one has ever seen God.”

We Christians claim that Jesus is God, the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity, and St. John the Apostle saw Him over the course of years and even was witness to Jesus’ Transfiguration yet St. John by this verse says that neither he nor anyone else has ever seen God.

Again the point still stands. Don’t forget John 1:10? John here states clearly 'He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not"

Jesus is Creator (God).

MJ

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I believe, based on our Church Teachings, that the Apostles were looking at Jesus Christ our God. Christ can Not be divided. And that at the Transfiguration they were given the gift of being able to see Him in all His glory.

When you look at the Eucharist do you look at Jesus’ Body & Blood or do you look at bread & wine? If you follow the Orthodox Church Teaching you know you are looking at Jesus’ Body & Blood and would always refer to the Eucharist as what It really is Not what a non-believer thinks they’re seeing.

Either Jesus is or isn’t fully God/fully Man, Christ can’t be divided into different parts.

Jesus is distinct in so far as his humanity and divinity is concerned, not his inherent person. I quoted what the orhtodox church accepts, IE chalcedon, unless you are oriental orthodox in which case we simply have different ideas then.

 

[CEM5]

I should have referenced the exact passage in the op: John 1:18 “No one has ever seen God.”

We Christians claim that Jesus is God, the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity, and St. John the Apostle saw Him over the course of years and even was witness to Jesus’ Transfiguration yet St. John by this verse says that neither he nor anyone else has ever seen God.

John 1:18
18 No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.

And that is true. Note that it is Jesus who has made him known. As stated, in my previous post, those who see Jesus, see God through Jesus.

So prior to Jesus, no one has seen God (face to face). Now, because God became man through the incarnation, we see Him, through Christ Jesus - our Emmanuel (God with us).

 

[jimperu]

The Transfiguration witnessed by St. John was a fake?

TRANSFORMED into the HUMAN FORM, to be like MAN, to be received and experience being a physical human. This is what Jesus was. NOT the TRANSFIGURATION. You do not get it straight as well as some of your comments to other posts!!!

 

[1Tim215Mommy]

[QUOTE=IgnatianPhilo;11087678]Jesus is distinct in so far as his humanity and divinity is concerned, not his inherent person. I quoted what the orhtodox church accepts, IE chalcedon, unless you are oriental orthodox in which case we simply have different ideas then.

As a Greek Orthodox Christian it astounds me that you claim a complete and total separation between the divine nature and human nature of Christ our God namely that you continue to repeat that the Body of Jesus Christ our God is only human rather than divine and human.

If what you say is true (which is completely contrary to the Councils and to the Fathers) answer me this: How than can the Body of Christ received in the Eucharist deify us if His Body is merely and only human?

What our Church has always taught is that Jesus Christ has two Natures (divine and human) and that those Natures are fully united in the Person (Body, Soul, Nous/Mind, Spirit) of Jesus Christ.

To go to outside of the Church’s Teachings to either extreme is absolutely wrong and goes against the Teachings of our Church.

1. extreme is to say that there is only a single Nature which is divine and human and
2. extreme is to say that the divine nature is only present in part or parts (but not all) of the Person of Christ.
   I fear based on your claim that the Body of Christ isn’t human and divine, but only human, that you have fallen into the 2nd extreme. I’ve never ever heard what you are claiming here and do not recognize it as authentic Greek Orthodox Teaching.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

As a Greek Orthodox Christian it astounds me that you claim a complete and total separation between the divine nature and human nature of Christ our God namely that you continue to repeat that the Body of Jesus Christ our God is only human rather than divine and human.

If what you say is true (which is completely contrary to the Councils and to the Fathers) answer me this: How than can the Body of Christ received in the Eucharist deify us if His Body is merely and only human?

What our Church has always taught is that Jesus Christ has two Natures (divine and human) and that those Natures are fully united in the Person (Body, Soul, Nous/Mind, Spirit) of Jesus Christ.

To go to outside of the Church’s Teachings to either extreme is absolutely wrong and goes against the Teachings of our Church.

1. extreme is to say that there is only a single Nature which is divine and human and
2. extreme is to say that the divine nature is only present in part or parts (but not all) of the Person of Christ.
   I fear based on your claim that the Body of Christ isn’t human and divine, but only human, that you have fallen into the 2nd extreme. I’ve never ever heard what you are claiming here and do not recognize it as authentic Greek Orthodox Teaching.

Have you read chalcedon? There is a distinction to be made between the humanity and the divinity of Christ, they are united by the person, they do not suddenly become one essence. They are two essences which are NOT MIXED OR CONFUSED. You say your orthodox then read the Orthodox definition of the council of Chalcedon and tell me I am differing than that which the church has handed down.

We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach people to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood;in all things like unto us, without sin begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably;the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten God (μονογενῆ Θεὸν), the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.

I only maintain that they are distinct and different insofar as their essences are concerned, the humanity is not his divinity and the divinity is not his humanity and if you want to say the ultimately transcendant God could be perceived on earth so much so that to look upon Jesus (in his body) is to look upon the divine essence of God, then you sir are outside of what orthodoxy teaches. Divinity cannot be grasped, divinity is beyond this material existence, that which God is cannot be confused with what the body is, that is why when Christ in his person took on another nature we can be redeemed to God.

I never said anything about the body of Jesus being merely human, it is a perfect human body, a divinised body.

 

[Servant19]

Have you read chalcedon? There is a distinction to be made between the humanity and the divinity of Christ, they are united by the person, they do not suddenly become one essence. They are two essences which are NOT MIXED OR CONFUSED. You say your orthodox then read the Orthodox definition of the council of Chalcedon and tell me I am differing than that which the church has handed down.

We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach people to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood;in all things like unto us, without sin begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably;the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten God (μονογενῆ Θεὸν), the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.

I only maintain that they are distinct and different insofar as their essences are concerned, the humanity is not his divinity and the divinity is not his humanity and if you want to say the ultimately transcendant God could be perceived on earth so much so that to look upon Jesus (in his body) is to look upon the divine essence of God, then you sir are outside of what orthodoxy teaches. Divinity cannot be grasped, divinity is beyond this material existence, that which God is cannot be confused with what the body is, that is why when Christ in his person took on another nature we can be redeemed to God.

I never said anything about the body of Jesus being merely human, it is a perfect human body, a divinised body.

Ignatian, who would’ve thought that we would FINALLY agree on this matter?

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Ignatian, who would’ve thought that we would FINALLY agree on this matter?

We agree on nothing for I say that Jesus in his divinity is actually God whereas you think he is some sort of similar substance to God.

 

[Servant19]

We agree on nothing for I say that Jesus in his divinity is actually God whereas you think he is some sort of similar substance to God.

So did Jesus have a body and a spirit?

 

[rinnie]

Good question. Answers anyone?

In the beginning Jesus did not want anyone to know who he was.

Remember he said who am I and Peter stood up and said who he was. And if you recall Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal this to you only my Father in heaven.

But God is human and divine. Jesus is God as the Son Human.

 

[rinnie]

So did Jesus have a body and a spirit?

To make it easy God is 3 persons in one God.

God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit.

All 3 are equal to one another.

Its just that God choose 3 different ways to reveal himself in the Trinity.

Not that he would but that he could, he could reveal himself as anything or anyone he wanted. He could have revealed himself as a Car. But the fact is he didnot.

He communicated with us as the God of Abraham in the O.T.

He communicated with us as Jesus Christ the Son in the N.T.

And he communicates with as trough the Holy Spirit through the Church today.

Jesus was God made human, Man.

Like today God can communicate with you right now through your soul or spirit, or he can communicate with me through my soul and spriit and I can communicate with you. Thats how it works through the Church,

God communicates with the Pope and Bishops etc trough the Church, He promised us someone to look over and run his church. And he promised us the gates of hades will not prevail over it.

So to make it more simple when God communicates with a Pope etc and it spoken in the name of God it official and will not change.

People say to me how can we be sure its from God, I say because Jesus promised and no Pope etc can overpower God.

Jesus promised when they speak truth in his name its truth. And our Father keeps his promises.

 

[concretecamper]

DEFINITION OF THE COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON (451 AD) CONCERNING THE TWO NATURES OF CHRIST.

Following, then, the holy fathers, we unite in teaching all men to confess the one and only Son, our Lord Jesus Christ.

This selfsame one is perfect both in deity and in humanness; this selfsame one is also actually God and actually man, with a rational soul [meaning human soul] and a body.

He is of the same reality as God as far as his deity is concerned and of the same reality as we ourselves as far as his humanness is concerned; thus like us in all respects, sin only excepted.

Before time began he was begotten of the Father, in respect of his deity, and now in these “last days,” for us and behalf of our salvation, this selfsame one was born of Mary the virgin, who is God-bearer in respect of his humanness.

We also teach that we apprehend this one and only Christ-Son, Lord, only- begotten – in two natures; and we do this without confusing the two natures, without transmuting one nature into the other, without dividing them into two separate categories, without contrasting them according to area or function.

The distinctiveness of each nature is not nullified by the union.

Instead, the “properties” of each nature are conserved and both natures concur in one “person” and in one reality [hypostasis].

They are not divided or cut into two persons, but are together the one and only and only-begotten Word [Logos], God, the Lord Jesus Christ. Thus have the prophets of old testified; thus the Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us; thus the Symbol of Fathers [the Nicene Creed] has handed down to us.

Therefore, now that we have set forth all these things with with a care and diligence exact in every respect, the holy and universal Synod defines once and for all that no one may profess, write up or compose, think, or teach to others, any other faith.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android

 

[rinnie]

So did Jesus have a body and a spirit?

Correct. He was human and divine. At the last moment on the cross he said Father into thy hands I commend my Spirit.