Muslim asked, "If Jesus is God, then why did his Apostle John write in his Gospel, after seeing and spending years with Jesus, that 'No one has ever s

[ronyodish]

From the Teshbokhta of Mar Babai the Great:

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One is Christ the Son of God,
Worshiped by all in two Natures;
In His Godhead begotten of the Father,
Without beginning before all time;
In His Humanity born of Mary,
In the fullness of time, in a Body united;
Neither His Godhead is of the Nature of the Mother,
Nor His Humanity of the Nature of the Father;
The Natures are preserved in their Qnome,
In one Person of one Sonship.
And as the Godhead is
three Qnome in one Essence,
Likewise the Sonship of the Son is
in two Natures, one Person.
So the Holy Church has learnt,
to confess the Son, who is Christ.
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God bless,

Rony

 

[Servant19]

Correct. He was human and divine. At the last moment on the cross he said Father into thy hands I commend my Spirit.

So when you say “human” you mean human like me and you right?

…as in a body and a spirit, right?

 

[rinnie]

So when you say “human” you mean human like me and you right?

…as in a body and a spirit, right?

I am not sure how you mean human. If you mean if someone looked at Jesus and looked at another Man could they tell them apart the answer is no.

He was human in everyway. In his experiences, his suffering etc. But yet he was also divine. He had no sin.

He was given every single test in a human way, the way we would be given it. But yet never sinned.

Like when Peter was around Jesus, Jesus KNEW the love Peter had for him. Although looking at Jesus you knew he was human you could not tell looking at him he was also divine, In power and Spirit.

A great example would be at the last supper he knew Judas would betray him, he actually said go do what you have to do.

And how Peter said I would never betray you, and Peter meant it at that time, but how Jesus said you will deny me 3 times. It was not until after the 3rd time Peter even remembered what Jesus said.

Jesus always was, as he said before Abraham I AM.

To be perfectly honest no one can explain the Trinity. Even the Pope would tell you that. like the Eucharist it is a mystery of our faith.

Like you yourself have great faith. But explain God to someone who refuses to believe. You can’t. Although you can give a million examples of prayers answered of yours and others if someone refuses to have faith at times. Its impossible to understand.

But even with great faith the Trinity is impossible to completely grasp at this time. But not impossible to believe.

 

[rinnie]

If you read the beginning of the bible it tells you God created MAN in HIS image. The divine image of himself.

If you read the CCC 359 it explains it much better then I could.

The First man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam who is Jesus is a life giving Spirit.

The first Adam was the beginning the last Adam knows no end.

 

[rinnie]

So when you say “human” you mean human like me and you right?

…as in a body and a spirit, right?

But to answer your question yes body and Spirit. But remember life GIVING Spirit.

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

So did Jesus have a body and a spirit?

Jesus is all of WHAT God is tabernacled in a body of flesh and bone.

I put “what” in caps to emphasize in what way Jesus is God incarnate, because Jesus is not
all of WHO God is, as he is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, but he is the Fullness of WHAT
God is, as is the Father and the Holy Spirit.
For in Him all the
fullness of Deity
dwells in bodily
form,
(Colossians 2:9)

 

[Servant19]

Hi Rinnie,

By classifying Jesus as having a human and a divine aspect, one has to understand what these aspects mean.

A human being has, by definition a body and a spirit. These twin realities combine to form the “human” aspect.

Did Christ have a “human” aspect based on this definition?

 

[Servant19]

Jesus is all of WHAT God is tabernacled in a body of flesh and bone.

I put “what” in caps to emphasize in what way Jesus is God incarnate, because Jesus is not
all of WHO God is, as he is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, but he is the Fullness of WHAT
God is, as is the Father and the Holy Spirit.
For in Him all the
fullness of Deity
dwells in bodily
form,
(Colossians 2:9)

So WHAT is God?

When you say that Jesus is all of WHAT God is, it is a definitive statement. When a definitive statement is made in this manner, it naturally relies on a “definition”

So WHAT is God? Define Him…

 

[rinnie]

Hi Rinnie,

By classifying Jesus as having a human and a divine aspect, one has to understand what these aspects mean.

A human being has, by definition a body and a spirit. These twin realities combine to form the “human” aspect.

Did Christ have a “human” aspect based on this definition?

Now you got me thinking. :bigyikes:

Okay the Holy Spirit is eternal. The human spirit is created.

Now the Human Spirit worships God.

But the Holy Spirit does not worship God the Holy Spirit is God.

So I think I would have to say now Jesus is human in nature. Divine in Spirit.

 

[Reuben_J]

So WHAT is God?

When you say that Jesus is all of WHAT God is, it is a definitive statement. When a definitive statement is made in this manner, it naturally relies on a “definition”

So WHAT is God? Define Him…

Since you are mentioning it, I would be more interested in what is your definition, from a Bahai perspective, of what God and human are respectively?

Christian’s definition of Jesus is quite simple – he is both divine and human. Only that as human, he is everything that a human is except sin.

 

[Servant19]

Now you got me thinking. :bigyikes:

Okay the Holy Spirit is eternal. The human spirit is created.

Now the Human Spirit worships God.

But the Holy Spirit does not worship God the Holy Spirit is God.

So I think I would have to say now Jesus is human in nature. Divine in Spirit.

It sure is interesting to explore this together

Can I ask, what do you mean by “human in nature”?

 

[Reuben_J]

Can I ask, what do you mean by “human in nature”?

I will let Rinnie answers this but I just want to interject by saying simply that “human in nature” is that it has a beginning and an end. In other word, a human needs to be born and die.

 

[Servant19]

I will let Rinnie answers this but I just want to interject by saying simply that “human in nature” is that it has a beginning and an end. In other word, a human needs to be born and die.

…but thats not the Christian definition of human

 

[rinnie]

So WHAT is God?

When you say that Jesus is all of WHAT God is, it is a definitive statement. When a definitive statement is made in this manner, it naturally relies on a “definition”

So WHAT is God? Define Him…

Let me try if I may.

The one whom the Father sent into our hearts the Spirit of his Son is truly God.

In our church we say consubsantial with the Father and the Son.

The Spirit is inseparable from them.

Here is where your mind can go on forever but think of this.

When the Father sends his word he always sends his BREATH. In their joint mission the Son and the Holy Spirit are distinct but inseparable.

It is Christ who is SEEN the VISIBLE image of the INVISIBLE GOD but it is the SPIRIT who reveals him.

Chew on that for a while. It will send you mind in circles. And while I myself have to admit its hard to understand it does make sense.

 

[Reuben_J]

…but thats not the Christian definition of human

I think it is - ‘simply’. The simple criteria for human is that it has to be born, created. It also will die or leave the earth one day. That its earthly life is not permanent. Other than that it is more from the theological apsect.

 

[Reuben_J]

I will be waiting for the definition of God and human respectively from Bahai’s perspective.

Thanks.

 

[Servant19]

I will be waiting for the definition of God and human respectively from Bahai’s perspective.

Thanks.

You’re more than welcome to ask that question in the Baha’i thread.

God bless

 

[Reuben_J]

You’re more than welcome to ask that question in the Baha’i thread.

God bless

OK Thanks. I thought you wouldn’t mind. But it is Ok.

God bless.

 

[Servant19]

I think it is - ‘simply’. The simple criteria for human is that it has to be born, created. It also will die or leave the earth one day. That its earthly life is not permanent. Other than that it is more from the theological apsect.

Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to catch anyone off guard or trap.

I just want some definitions so that I can understand.

So when referring to Jesus’ “human” aspect, we are just referring to the physical body ONLY?

Is that official Catholic teaching?

 

[Reuben_J]

Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to catch anyone off guard or trap.

I just want some definitions so that I can understand.

So when referring to Jesus’ “human” aspect, we are just referring to the physical body ONLY?

Is that official Catholic teaching?

No, I did not hold such thing of you. I was only giving a simple definition that can be understood easily without going into the theology of it. This is important so that it would be clear when we discuss about the person of Jesus. Once we go over that hurdle perhaps then it is easier to move into the theological aspect.

The reason I bring this up is mainly from experience whereby non-Christians, and those that I often heard of were the Muslims, where the concept of Jesus as both divine and human was often misunderstood. So what I pointed out was that there is no biggie - a human is human and God is God. The only exception of Jesus as human is that he did not sin.

The reason why I ask for Bahai’s definition is for me to gauge where they come from which would help to make it easier to understand their perspective.