Muslim bigotry

[crazzeto]

“Do not cause undue harm.” “Recognize they are the face of the living God.” But keep them “in check.” Which means? I don’t know. You haven’t actually defined what you mean by that, but hey, I’ll take your word for it. You must mean something . . . benign. I won’t push it any farther.

Honestly I really don’t see where the difficulty lies in all of this, it’s really not all that complex. All the peices are laid out for you very plainly, but for some reason you simply refuse to see it, I’m not sure if it’s by choice.

First and foremost, you treat all human beings with dignaty and respect of the image of the living God, beause that is what they are. This means not causing undo harm. This means one does not do immoral and (currently) illegal things like put people in worker camps, are unreasnobly tell them they are not free to worship God in the best way they know how. This is respecting the image of the living God…

Keep them in check, this is also simple enough to understand.

Allowing one to be free to persue their faith, does not mean replacing constitutional law with Sheria law as we are already doing. I have pointed this out to you, and while you plainly refuse to see it, this is exactly what you are buttressing. You support it.

Lets look at another minority group, homosexuals. They too are the image of the living God, this means you treat them with respect, and allow them to live the lifestyle they choose (though perhaps respectfully try to show them a better path, of Chastity primarly by living this in your own life). You do not bash them, you do not turn every occation into an occation for a “gay joke”, you do not put them down, you do not unduely deny them rights they reasnobly have.

That said, there are certain things we don’t necessarly have a right to. You don’t have a right to marry just anyone you want. I can’t marry my sister, in many states (sadly not all) I can’t marry my first cousin. Similarly, there should be no right perceived or otherwise to marry someone of the same gender.

This is all very plain, it has been all very plainly laid out for you to see. If you can’t see it now, then quite simply you refuse to and there is no further point discussing the matter with you. You claim I didn’t read your posting, I did. You claim I don’t understand your meaning, I do.

So, this posting rehashes everything already said. Again, I really don’t see a point in rehashing it again beyond this posting.

 

[crazzeto]

With respect to “muslim bigotry” this really meant hypocrisy in terms of the issue of tolerance.

In the middle east, there are plentiful, plentiful deaths and bombings that muslims proudly claim as their doing. . . many of which are anti-Christian, and based on harming a religion.

Yet at the same time, I have run into instances in which muslims assert that religious tolerance is a GOOD thing in America, when they want to build mosques, in particular.

Well, if religious tolerance is good for muslims to benefit from, they need to extend this to Christians.

In America, where are the muslim leaders speaking out against anti-Christian violence?

In Etheopia just the other day 50 Christian Churches were burned, and many Christian homes as well. Thousands are displaced, many dead or injured. Because of a rumor that a Christian town disrespected the Koran.

All at the hands of “peaceful” muslims.

 

[Tsuwano]

In Etheopia just the other day 50 Christian Churches were burned, and many Christian homes as well. Thousands are displaced, many dead or injured. Because of a rumor that a Christian town disrespected the Koran.

All at the hands of “peaceful” muslims.

It wasn’t at the hands of peaceful Muslims. It was at the hands of Muslim extremists. Not all Muslims are extremist and most Muslims are genuinely peaceful.

 

[Tsuwano]

With respect to “muslim bigotry” this really meant hypocrisy in terms of the issue of tolerance.

In the middle east, there are plentiful, plentiful deaths and bombings that muslims proudly claim as their doing. . . many of which are anti-Christian, and based on harming a religion.

Yet at the same time, I have run into instances in which muslims assert that religious tolerance is a GOOD thing in America, when they want to build mosques, in particular.

Well, if religious tolerance is good for muslims to benefit from, they need to extend this to Christians.

In America, where are the muslim leaders speaking out against anti-Christian violence?

I think you raise a very good question here, one I would also like answered. Where are the Muslim leaders who are speaking out against anti-Christian violence? In one of my orginal posts I stated that religious people have a right to challenge other faith groups when they fail to live out their own religious claims. Rather than assume that most Muslims are satisfied with injustice perpertrated against Christians, I would call on those Muslims who love justice to speak out against its violation where Christian minorities are involved.

 

[JaredM]

Its a simple statistical fact of the population in American being Christian. The fact that no-one is proudly running around claiming it only speaks for the nature of Catholics and most Christians.

Just because America has a Christian majority doesn’t mean it’s a Christians country. There is a little thing called separation of church and state. Keeps us from becoming an Christian Taliban state.

 

[Booklover]

It wasn’t at the hands of peaceful Muslims. It was at the hands of Muslim extremists. Not all Muslims are extremist and most Muslims are genuinely peaceful.

If this were true, where is the freedom of religion in the Middle East where Muslims are the majority?

 

[jam070406]

It wasn’t at the hands of peaceful Muslims. It was at the hands of Muslim extremists. Not all Muslims are extremist and most Muslims are genuinely peaceful.

ALL Muslims follow a false prophet and book that condones violence as being from Allah. This is a dangerous, unpredictable reality.

 

[Tsuwano]

If this were true, where is the freedom of religion in the Middle East where Muslims are the majority?

Like the Catholic Church in previous centuries, Muslims believe that error has no rights, especially in lands that have already been purified for the faith. Muslims are called upon by their faith to tolerate believers of other faiths who live among them and to be just towards them, but this does not include the concept of freedom of religion as we understand it in the West. Believers of other faiths are free to believe, but they are not free to evangelize or teach their faith to Muslims. The freedom of error, as a Muslim would see it, has limits and even those limits are granted through mercy and not through right. This doesn’t mean, however, that most Muslims are violent or wish to harm believers of other faiths as long as they stay within the limits granted to them. Muslim extremists are somewhat different. They do not believe in tolerating different beliefs at all and are, according to many Islamic scholars, false to the teaching of their prophet in this matter. We have a different concept concerning freedom of religion and worship and I think we should stick with it, even in the face of Muslim oppression in other lands against our fellow Christian believers. I do not want our society to be like the societies where Islam is a dominant religion. This is why I support the same freedom of religion for Muslims in America as for other religious faiths. I prefer our system and would like to keep it.

 

[crazzeto]

It wasn’t at the hands of peaceful Muslims. It was at the hands of Muslim extremists. Not all Muslims are extremist and most Muslims are genuinely peaceful.

Oh please, are you even aware of what life is like in a country like Saudi Arabia? And that’s probably the most modern, “peaceful” and conflict free muslim nation… Try looking at Pakistan, Afghanistan, all over Africa… This is a false point of departure you make, “extreamists” as opposed to “moderates”.

Islam is what you see, in those nations where it can florish unchecked. I don’t want the USA to be one of those places. Dump sheria law now. I’ve honestly been thinking it’s about time already to bring this issue to a head. Before it gets out of hand.

 

[Tsuwano]

ALL Muslims follow a false prophet and book that condones violence as being from Allah. This is a dangerous, unpredictable reality.

I am not a Muslim and do not believe that Mohammed is a prophet of God, but I would note that many people would also say that the Bible also condones violence as being from God. This can also be a dangerous, unpredictable reality. Many folks have justified their violence in the name of God and not all of them are Muslim.

 

[jam070406]

I am not a Muslim and do not believe that Mohammed is a prophet of God, but I would note that many people would also say that the Bible also condones violence as being from God. This can also be a dangerous, unpredictable reality. Many folks have justified their violence in the name of God and not all of them are Muslim.

You don’t believe he was a false prophet!??

Oh please, this a giant strawman. The Church has never taught violence and murder are acceptable. Pope Benedict has stated that violence is not compatible with the nature of God. Jesus was the living example of non-violent love that we are to follow.

 

[Tsuwano]

Oh please, are you even aware of what life is like in a country like Saudi Arabia? And that’s probably the most modern, “peaceful” and conflict free muslim nation… Try looking at Pakistan, Afghanistan, all over Africa… This is a false point of departure you make, “extreamists” as opposed to “moderates”.

Islam is what you see, in those nations where it can florish unchecked. I don’t want the USA to be one of those places. Dump sheria law now. I’ve honestly been thinking it’s about time already to bring this issue to a head. Before it gets out of hand.

There you go again. What do you mean when you say we should bring things to a head before it gets out of hand? What, exactly, are you advocating? Why is it false to draw a distinction between extremists and moderates when the line obviously exists? Do you think Sharia law exists in the USA? Is that the country you think should dump sharia law or do you think we should simply force those countries which live under sharia law to dump their own laws? How would you suggest going about that? And while we are at it, please let me know what your experience is in countries where Islam is a dominant religion. You must obviously have some negative experiences since you seem so emotional about it all.

 

[jam070406]

Sorry, I misread your comment about Mo.

 

[jam070406]

There you go again. What do you mean when you say we should bring things to a head before it gets out of hand? What, exactly, are you advocating? Why is it false to draw a distinction between extremists and moderates when the line obviously exists? Do you think Sharia law exists in the USA? Is that the country you think should dump sharia law or do you think we should simply force those countries which live under sharia law to dump their own laws? How would you suggest going about that? And while we are at it, please let me know what your experience is in countries where Islam is a dominant religion. You must obviously have some negative experiences since you seem so emotional about it all.

I think he means voice your opposition to Islam like the great Saints and martyrs did before you no longer have freedom to do so!

 

[Tsuwano]

You don’t believe he was a false prophet!??

Oh please, this a giant strawman. The Church has never taught violence and murder are acceptable. Pope Benedict has stated that violence is not compatible with the nature of God. Jesus was the living example of non-violent love that we are to follow.

I am a Christian, so of course I think Mohammed was a false prophet. I never said the Church has taught violence and murder, though it has condoned it. The Crusades, after all, were hardly peaceful. What I did say was that some people have claimed the same thing about the Bible (that it describes violence as coming from God) that many people claim about the Koran. I also said that many people have justified violence in the name of God and that not all of them are Muslim.

 

[jam070406]

I am a Christian, so of course I think Mohammed was a false prophet. I never said the Church has taught violence and murder, though it has condoned it. The Crusades, after all, were hardly peaceful. What I did say was that some people have claimed the same thing about the Bible (that it describes violence as coming from God) that many people claim about the Koran. I also said that many people have justified violence in the name of God and that not all of them are Muslim.

Correct me if I’m wrong but we do live in the 21st century, correct?

 

[Tsuwano]

I think he means voice your opposition to Islam like the great Saints and martyrs did before you no longer have freedom to do so!

I do voice my opposition to Islam, both as a faith and theology, and as a means of guiding society. I do not, however, oppose Muslims or desire to see their rights and freedoms taken away in my country. I don’t fear Islam as much as some seem to.

 

[Tsuwano]

Correct me if I’m wrong but we do live in the 21st century, correct?

I suppose your comment is directed towards my comment that the Crusades, though condoned and supported by the Church, were not peaceful, even though I agree that the Church doesn’t teach violence . . . at least not in the 21st century, which indeed, is the century we live in. You weren’t really in doubt, were you?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Just because America has a Christian majority doesn’t mean it’s a Christians country. There is a little thing called separation of church and state. Keeps us from becoming an Christian Taliban state.

Not sure what the point is there are no radical Christian groups on the Goverment watch list? They just told the world that on the News last week. And the country is 75% Christian:shrug: It might even be higher since 2005.

I understand how this country works I lived in it over 1/2 a hundred year’s.

Why who’s promoting violence? I’m trying to stop it.

 

[JaredM]

Not sure what the point is there are no radical Christian groups on the Goverment watch list?

Actually there are. There are a lot of anti-abortion terrorist groups, along with the KKK, Christian Identity, and radical traditionalist Catholic groups.