Muslim converts to Christianity

[dolphinlove]

Jesus is not literally sitting next to a separate conscious entity. The language is figurative. We can draw an analogy between the Holy Trinity and the natural element H2o: God the Father: Ice, God the Son: Water, God the Holy Spirit: Steam. When each form is manifested, it is one aspect of three forms of H2o. Each aspect is consubstantial with each other comprising one and the same substance. With H2o the different aspects we perceive by the senses are the accidental properties of the same substance. So when we perceive a block of ice, for instance, water and steam are still there consubstantially united, although unperceived by the senses. In like manner when we think of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are consubstantially still there united with the Father; of the Son, the Father and Spirit are consubstantially still there united with the Son; of the Spirit, the Father and Son are consubstantially still there united with the Spirit: three distinct divine Persons (or forms) but one undivided God (or substance).

Hence, when we speak of the Son sitting at the right hand of the Father, we mean that the Son eternally generates from the Father co-existing with him consubstantially, the Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son. The Father, Son, and Spirit form one entity of one single mind. Each Person of the Trinity has always co-existed together in one God, just like the three forms of H2o always co-exist together consubstantially despite the particular manifestations of its accidental properties. We have distinctions in relation of origins. Like each aspect of H2o, the divine Persons of the Trinity exist as one relative to one another: undivided distinction in a single unity.

If Jesus had existed before Abraham was born and after he died, then obviously Jesus was more than human when he dwelt among us.

In the beginning was the Word,
and the word was with God,
and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.

And the Word became flesh
and made his dwelling among us,
and we saw his glory,
the glory as of the Father’s only Son,
full of grace and truth.
John 1:1,14

Jesus was sentenced to death and crucified for claiming to be one with God the Father. The charge was ‘blasphemy’. His “I am” is how God identified himself to Moses: the verb ‘to be’.

God replied, “I am who am.” Then he added, “This is what you should tell the Israelites: I AM sent you.”
Exodus 3, 14

But Jesus was silent. Then the high priest said to him, “I order you to tell us under oath before the living God whether you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” Jesus said to him in reply, " I AM. But I tell you: From now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming on the clouds of heaven ". Then the high priest tore his robes and said, "He has blasphemed! What further need have we of witnesses? You have now heard the blasphemy; what is your opinion? They said in reply, “He deserves to die.”
Matthew 26, 63-66

During his ministry Jesus claimed to have the power to forgive sins at the time he cured the paralytic. The elders were outraged by his remark and objected that only God can forgive sins. This incident paved the way for his eventual arrest and trial where our Lord had to face his accusers.

When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, " Courage, child, your sins are forgiven ". At that, some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming.”
Matthew 9, 2-3

On another occasion Peter acknowledged the divinity of Christ by the grace of God, for which understanding Jesus declared him blessed.

He said to them, " But who do you say that I am “? Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus said to him in reply, " Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father .”
Matthew 16, 15-17

After our Lord was arrested, tried, and executed, Thomas lost faith in the divinity of Christ. But his faith was restored when Jesus finally appeared to him after the resurrection and let Thomas touch him.The apostle’s response was: “My Lord and my God!” Jesus did not rebuke Thomas for reaffirming his belief in our Lord’s divinity. Rather he blessed everyone who believes in him - who believes in God without seeing him made visible.

Then he said to Thomas, " Put your finger here and see my hands, and bring your hand and put it into my side, and do not be unbelieving, but believe ." Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, " Have you come to believe because you have seen me (God)? Blessed are those who have not seen (God) and have believed ."
John 20, 27-29

They were overjoyed at seeing the star, and on entering the house they saw the child with Mary his mother. They prostrated themselves and worshipped him.
Matthew 2, 10-11

Can you tell us where in the Old and New Testaments we find a prophecy pointing to the coming of Mohammad, and the fulfillment of these two testaments in the prophet and Islam?


PAX
Good Fella

excellent response

 

[jen_fla]

Wahhabi is a bad word used to describe some traditional Sunni Muslims. Sometimes they call themselves “Salafi” (never Wahhabi) meaning they are trying to follow the Salaf who are the righteous predecessors–i.e., the first few generations of people after Muhammad (saaws). They are traditional Sunni Muslims. They just reject some (many) deviations which have crept into other Muslim traditions, like worshiping saints, graves, etc. Some people think they are hardline but really they stick to authentic Islamic sources and scholars trained in them.

There is this movement among the Muslims that aims to instead of just simplifying and dumbing down the religion for the masses, and avoiding authentic original sources as was the case for centuries, this movement aims to motivate students of knowledge to improve themselves and raise the overall knowldege and capabilities of the Muslims, allowing for better understanding of how Islam can deal with today’s world, with both flexibility and firmness, and knowing when which is appropriate.

But if you tell people not to worship a rock (black stone), not to worship a building (Ka’ba), not to worship graves (“saints,” prophets), then sometimes you get this label “Wahhabi.”

I’ve been called a Wahhabi here sometimes even. Silouan might even call me a Wahhabi because I said Muslims aren’t supposed to call on the Prophet (saaws) for help instead of Allah.

so are you saying that wahhabi is just an adjective like calling a certain group of Christians, “snake handlers” or is it an actual sect, like say the seventh day adventists?

 

[jen_fla]

The Traditional Sunni Muslims follow one of the four madhabs of Fiqh (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi, Hanbali), and one of the three madhabs of Aqidah (Ashari, Maturidi, some have included the Athari).

For over 1000 years this is what the Sunni muslims have followed and taught.

The Wahabis (Salafis) have their origins with Ibn Taymiyyah, a Hanbali scholar who went against the majority and oppose the majority who was criticised by the leading scholars of his time. Ibn Subki said of Ibn Taymiyyah, “His knowledge exceeded his intellect.” The fame of Ibn Taymiyyah died with him.

In the 1800, Abdul Wahab, revived the teachings of Ibn Taymiyyah and oppose the Traditional Sunni Muslims, and labled them mushirks, kafirs etc etc. Because of the Saudi Oil, this heretical Islamic sect was able to spread across the globe as true Islam, this Wahabism, is the origin of the terrorist Osama Bin Laden. People who want to oppose Traditional Sunni Islam to follow their desires, kill innocent people and shed blood.

In Christ,

Silouan

i read so many different views on this. where can one learn about the peaceful beliefs of the “traditional sunnis”?

is the hadith by bukhari considered authentic by this group?

thanks.

 

[Silouan]

**Your post is partially good. You have some good ideas. But please note that I would like to read those lines of the NT in which Jesus said that he was God. I feel that you will not find any. And please remain to the four Gospels only for the beginning of your effort.

From your statement it appears that Jesus is different to God the father. He is different and not so superior. And he may have a different body too. That is necessary because bible says Jesus is now sitting on the right hand side of God. So Jesus has to be separate from God, i.e. another god, a smaller god.

I wish you well in your new endevours.**

Greetings,

This is the thing, you have to want to understand it. You can understand something and not agree with the conclusion.

It took me a few months to grasp the concept of Trinity, Jesus being God, and understanding it within the context of the Gospels. Because I am like you, I want to see everything in the words of Jesus. I use to be Muslim. I have not even studied the books of Paul yet, I have mainly concentrated on the Gospel of Jesus.

You have to want to understand it and be willing to do the research. And it takes prayer. But the proof is so clear to me now.

For example,

On another occasion Peter acknowledged the divinity of Christ by the grace of God, for which understanding Jesus declared him blessed.

He said to them, " But who do you say that I am “? Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus said to him in reply, " Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father .”
Matthew 16, 15-17

This is one of the clearest proofs that Jesus is God, but you are Muslim so you won’t see it. I know you won’t because someone tried to explain these verses to me when I was first interested in learning about Trinity, and I didn’t see the proof in it.

But now, after my research, it is one of the strongest proofs that Jesus is God, the Jesus the Father are One, as Jesus said himself, I and my Father are one.

I would have to sit and ponder on the best way to explain this verse to a Muslim. Give me a couple of days to think about it.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[Silouan]

i read so many different views on this. where can one learn about the peaceful beliefs of the “traditional sunnis”?

is the hadith by bukhari considered authentic by this group?

thanks.

Greetings,

I would recommend, sunnipath.com for those who would like to understand Traditional Sunni Islam. This is one of the places I took online classes when I was Muslim. They have some pretty good teachers there.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[jen_fla]

thank you, silouan.

peace.

 

[Silouan]

Did you study in the Hanbali madhhab? Or are you just trying to sound like you know what you’re talking about?

I was actually Shafi in Fiqh. But I am merely repeating what was taught to me by my former shuyukh on something, like Ibn Taymiyyah being the first scholar to oppose tawassul. He actually considered it bidah and it was Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab that considered it shirk. This is what I was taught, I never did the detailed research in it.

And didn’t you read that quote I gave earlier? If you ask, ask of Allah, and if you seek help, seek help of Allah. Why do you people want to pray to something else? I just don’t get it.

I don’t like using the word “praying” along with seeking intercession because it give the wrong idea that you believe, Saints and Prophets have some type of power, and that isn’t the role or place of intercession.

There are condition for having a person dua (prayers) answered. Many times these conditions are not met when one prays. So one seeks the intercession of others, in hopes that their prayers will be answered. It is usually with someone who is righteous.

For example, intercession is like asking a righteous friend of yours to make dua. You could just ask Allah yourself, and you should ask Allah yourself. But perhaps you don’t met the conditions of a sound dua, then asking someone who has more piety than you helps in having your dua answered, in sha Allah.

In general Muslims don’t have a problem with seeking intercession with a living person, it becomes a problem when asking a dead person to make dua for them.

For us Christian, there is no doubt that the dead are indeed living and are alive in the grave.

In regards to Muslims, they believe the dead are alive as well, but some people argue that the dead cannot hear one, or that the dead cannot perform anymore actions, or they are incapable of doing it.

At any rate there is a difference opinion among the scholars concerning this, however majority of the Islamic scholar agree thhat Tawassal is permissible and have compelling evidence for it.

And our Lord know best.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

I make prostrations.

many ( or most ? ) Christans don’t do that , why ?

The Greek Old Testament and the Greek New Testament.

I head lecture of Dr Zakir Naik. The word begotten son has been omitted in Revised Bible . Is the word begotten still there in ur version ?

The scholars of Islam actually complicated the religion of Islam.

They did not do it for me , they did not do that for the millions Muslims including those living in the west . How they did it for u ?

 

[ASimpleSinner]

I make prostrations

Actually MOST do. Between Catholics and Orthodox the vast majority of Christians worldwide make prostrations - it is simply of a different posture such as genuflecting or profound bows. In the case of eastern Christians, there are several times a year where prostrations are made in liturgy, and many do so at home in their private devotions.

 

[Silouan]

Salaam/peace

many ( or most ? ) Christans don’t do that , why ?

The largest Christian group is the Catholics, and the second largest is the Orthodox, and they prostration in prayer, both in church and in private prayers.

Perhaps you are more familiar with Protestant Christians, like the Baptist, Pentacostals etc etc.

I head lecture of Dr Zakir Naik. The word begotten son has been omitted in Revised Bible . Is the word begotten still there in ur version ?

Yes it is still in there.

They did not do it for me , they did not do that for the millions Muslims including those living in the west . How they did it for u ?

I am not asking you to leave Islam, if you are happy and content with Islam as your way of life, than I am happy for you. Al Hamdullah.

Islam is not a religion for me. I have studied it and it doesn’t fit my worldview. With that being said, I think Islam is a very beautiful religion, if taught and practiced correctly it breeds upright and just men and women. I met some of the most upright and trustworthy people among the Muslims. I met some of the most beautiful teachers. And I truly loved my previous spiritual master. I learned alot from Islam. I do not deny that.

Some of the men in this world that I have a great respect for are Muslim, I love them for their trustworthy, their humility, their faith etc etc. Among these people that I love are Habib Ali Jifri, Habib Umar, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, Shaykh Nuh Keller, Shaykh Muhammad Al Yaqoubi, Shaykh Abdullah Bin Bayyah, these are some of the greatest and trustworthy men in the world.

In all the great things that Islam has to offer, I don’t believe Islam is for me. If Islam makes you happy than that is fine. Al Hamdullah. And May Allah give you tawfiq in it.

Wa Alaykum salaam Rahmatullah Wa Barakatuhu,

Silouan

 

[Malgosia]

To Muslims who claim the corruption of Christian scripture, or that Jesus was just a prophet:

• Jesus raises His hand and a storm is calmed
• Jesus walks on water
• Jesus says: “Come”, and His disciple walks on water
• Even the touch of Jesus’ robe would cure the sick
• Jesus forgives sins
  This is only a tiny portion of what Jesus did.

When Jesus does a miracle, He does not pray for it (the way, for example Moses did asking God for help). The miracle is instantenous, caused by Him and coming from Him, and not from some external deity.

Therefore Jesus is more than a prophet.

Lets compare it with Muhammad’s miracles:

• NONE
  Through the history of humanity the sign of the prophet was always miracles. It was God showing those around that this man was chosen by God. By default, Muhammad could not be a prophet, since the usual prophetic signs were not there. Thinking that an angel is talking to you is no proof that that is true. And no, Koran is not a miracle, there is too much repetition, and contradiction in it. It looks like Allah is changing his mind as he speaks to Muhammad.

This Jesus, who did miracle after miracle every step He took would never have allowed the religion that He established to be corrupt. He wrote the truth with love inside our hearts. Love cannot be corrupt.

I am a child of God, not because I am worthy of it, but because of God’s immesurable love and mercy. I rather be His child than His servant. I will serve Him out of love, not out of forced submission (Islam means “submission”).

God bless.

 

[MugenOne]

Here’s a crazy story about Mohammed’s revelation. Some Shia Muslims believe that Angel Gabriel mistakenly revealed the Quran to Mohammed rather than Ali. On the night the angel Gabriel was supposed to appear to Ali, Mohammed had him swapped bedroom. When the poor angel Gabriel appeared, he started talking to Mohammed instead to Ali.

Let me ask you a question, how can angel like Gabriel who is God-like make a major mistake like that?

 

[wina]

Jesus The Eternal Kalimat online audio series ancientfaith.com/podcasts/byantoro has great insights for Muslim-Christian interactions. Curious if you are familiar with the following Indonesian raised muslim ?

Hi, I live in Indonesia, I’m not familiar with the following Indonesian raised muslim but I know some people who become catholic although all their members of family are muslims and some people who are muslims but all their members of family are catholic. Or even I know a nun who was raised in muslim’s family.

 

[Good_Fella]

To Muslims who claim the corruption of Christian scripture, or that Jesus was just a prophet:

• Jesus raises His hand and a storm is calmed
• Jesus walks on water
• Jesus says: “Come”, and His disciple walks on water
• Even the touch of Jesus’ robe would cure the sick
• Jesus forgives sins
  This is only a tiny portion of what Jesus did.

When Jesus does a miracle, He does not pray for it (the way, for example Moses did asking God for help). The miracle is instantenous, caused by Him and coming from Him, and not from some external deity.

Therefore Jesus is more than a prophet.

Lets compare it with Muhammad’s miracles:

• NONE
  Through the history of humanity the sign of the prophet was always miracles. It was God showing those around that this man was chosen by God. By default, Muhammad could not be a prophet, since the usual prophetic signs were not there. Thinking that an angel is talking to you is no proof that that is true. And no, Koran is not a miracle, there is too much repetition, and contradiction in it. It looks like Allah is changing his mind as he speaks to Muhammad.

This Jesus, who did miracle after miracle every step He took would never have allowed the religion that He established to be corrupt. He wrote the truth with love inside our hearts. Love cannot be corrupt.

I am a child of God, not because I am worthy of it, but because of God’s immesurable love and mercy. I rather be His child than His servant. I will serve Him out of love, not out of forced submission (Islam means “submission”).

God bless.

You have raised some good points which must not be ignored. I’d like to add that the apostles gained nothing but pain, suffering, and cruel deaths at the hands of the Jews and Romans for their efforts, so it was not in their best interest to create a new religion and found a universal Church (the way) by tampering with the truth of our Lord’s teachings and the accounts of his deeds. The apostles profited by gaining the true treasures stored in heaven and their eternal reward. And they could not have been rewarded in heaven if they were false to their Lord and Master.

Then a roar came from the throne, saying:
“Praise our God,
all you his servants,
you who fear him,
both small and great!”

Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, saying:
“Alleluiah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and be glad
and give Him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and the bride has made herself ready.
Fine linen bright and clean,
was given her to wear.” (fine linen = righteous acts)

Then the angel said to me,
"Write: ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!’ " And he added: “These are the true words of God.”
Revelation 19, 6-9

PAX
Good Fella

 

[planten]

Greetings,

I would recommend, sunnipath.com for those who would like to understand Traditional Sunni Islam. This is one of the places I took online classes when I was Muslim. They have some pretty good teachers there.

In Christ,

Silouan

**But they are ignorants. They do not understand the basics of Islam. They are not peaceful. Previously, about 70 years ago they were preaching Jihad with weapons. If any one tried to tell that there was no Jihad or religious war in Islam, the Sunnis abused them and called them Kafirs.
Only now after muchado, they have come to realise that they were wrong. There are so many other misunderstandings in the so-called Sunni Muslims. Every system has some principles. But they do not have the right principles. They have many schools and they are teaching funny things to the poor young students.

May I end my post by saying that they believe in the coming of a bloody Mahdi who would come and kill every non-believer. He will shed plenty of blood and will not spare the life of any non-Muslim. He will not give a chance to any one to convert even but will kill the non-belivers without delay.

Could such people be right?.That is definitely unIslamic. So to understand real Islam, there is no need to go to such people.

But I have not visited that site (forum). May be I should do it and find out how they feel now. It could very well be that they are still the enemy of truth.**

 

[inJESUS]

But they are ignorants. They do not understand the basics of Islam. They are not peaceful. So to understand real Islam, there is no need to go to such people…

Planten, you are so fond of proclaiming the “preserved” Quran, but where is the preserved meaning? if not with Sunni then surely not with Shia so where is Islam?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Here’s a crazy story about Mohammed’s revelation. Some Shia Muslims believe that Angel Gabriel mistakenly revealed the Quran to Mohammed rather than Ali. On the night the angel Gabriel was supposed to appear to Ali, Mohammed had him swapped bedroom. When the poor angel Gabriel appeared, he started talking to Mohammed instead to Ali.

Let me ask you a question, how can angel like Gabriel who is God-like make a major mistake like that?

This is not a belief of any significant portion of Shi’a, who affirm along with Sunnis that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.

 

[LoveofGod]

The best of you are those who are best to their wives. - Prophet Muhammad (saaws)

Amy, how do you view the 1300+ years of history in islam of wife beatings from the time of Mohammad to present as declared by the following trusted islamic sources:

Quran- Surah 4, aya 34 "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme. Dawood

or if you prefer

Men are in charge of women, because Allah has made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah has guarded. As for those from whom you fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great. Pickthall

islamic commentaries and holy Traditional understanding below don’t help the case for women needing to avoid being beat:

“At-Tafsir al-Kabir,” on 4:34
"A women complained to Muhammad that her husband slapped her on the face, (which was still marked by the slap). At first the prophet said to her: “Get even with him”, but then added: “Wait until I think about it”. Later on, Allah supposedly revealed 4:34 to Muhammad, after which the prophet said: “We wanted one thing but Allah wanted another, and what Allah wanted is best.”

The Hadith contains more information on wife beating in the early Islamic community

Bukhari[8], vol. 7, # 715, that details Islamic wife beating:

"Narrated Ikrima: 'Rifaa divorced his wife whereupon Abdur-Rahman married her. Aisha said that the lady came wearing a green veil and complained to her (Aisha) and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating. It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah’s messenger came, Aisha said, “I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes! When Abdur-Rahman heard that his wife had gone to the prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, “By Allah! I have done no wrong to him, but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this,” holding and showing the fringe of her garment. Abdur-Rahman said, “By Allah, O Allah’s messenger! She has told a lie. I am very strong and can satisfy her, but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifaa.” Allah’s messenger said to her, “If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifaa unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you.” The prophet saw two boys with Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), “Are these your sons?” On that Abdur-Rahman said, “Yes.” The prophet said, “You claim what you claim (that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow.””

And the other islamci holy traditions are along the same line:

Sahih Muslim[9], Book 009, Number 3512:

…When my period of 'Idda was over, I mentioned to him [Muhammad] that Mu’awiya b. Abu Sufyan and Jahm had sent proposal of marriage to me, whereupon Allah’s said: As for Abu Jahm, he does not put down his staff from his shoulder, and as for Mu’awiya, he is a poor man having no property; marry Usama b. Zaid. I objected to him, but he again said: Marry Usama; so I married him. Allah blessed there in and I was envied (by others).

Book 009, Number 3526:

…So I informed him [Muhammad]. (By that time) Mu’awiya, Abu Jahm and Usama b. Zaid had given her the proposal of marriage. Allah’s Messenger said: So far as Mu’awiya is concerned, he is a poor man without any property. So far as Abu Jahm is concerned, he is a great beater of women, but Usama b. Zaid… She pointed with her hand (that she did not approve of the idea of marrying) Usama. But Allah’s Messenger said: Obedience to Allah and obedience to His Messenger is better for thee. She said: So I married him, and I became an object of envy.

Book 009, Number 3527:

…She said: Mu’awiya and Abu’l-Jahm were among those who had given me the proposal of marriage. Thereupon Allah’s Apostle said: Mu’awiya is destitute and in poor condition and Abu’l-Jahm is very harsh with women (or he beats women, or like that), you should take Usama b. Zaid (as your husband).

Sahih Muslim #3506:

Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported: Abu Bakr came and sought permission to see Allah’s Messenger. He found people sitting at his door and none amongst them had been granted permission, but it was granted to Abu Bakr and he went in. Then came 'Umar and he sought permission and it was granted to him, and he found Allah’s Apostle sitting sad and silent with his wives around him. He (Hadrat 'Umar) said: I would say something which would make the Holy Prophet laugh, so he said: Messenger of Allah, I wish you had seen (the treatment meted out to) the daughter of Kharija when she asked me some money, and I got up and slapped her on her neck. Allah’s Messenger laughed and said: They are around me as you see, asking for extra money. Abu Bakr then got up went to 'Aisha and slapped her on the neck, and 'Umar stood up before Hafsa and slapped her saying: You ask Allah’s Messenger which he does not possess. They said: By Allah, we do not ask Allah’s Messenger for anything he does not possess….

Bukhari volume 8, #828

Narrated Aisha: Abu Bakr came to towards me and struck me violently with his fist and said, “You have detained the people because of your necklace.” But I remained motionless as if I was dead lest I should awake Allah’s Apostle although that hit was very painful.

I wonder why would a muslim in the west support the islamic teaching of the Quran and the Traditions in regards to wife beating and yet assume that Mohammad’s religion is somehow better for muslim women than the more ancient Christian faith that “husbands are to love their wives and lay down their lives for them as Christ did for His Church” Ephesian 5 ?

Thanks kindly,
Anthony

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by MugenOne
Here’s a crazy story about Mohammed’s revelation. Some Shia Muslims believe that Angel Gabriel mistakenly revealed the Quran to Mohammed rather than Ali. On the night the angel Gabriel was supposed to appear to Ali, Mohammed had him swapped bedroom. When the poor angel Gabriel appeared, he started talking to Mohammed instead to Ali.

Let me ask you a question, how can angel like Gabriel who is God-like make a major mistake like that?

** Such things are only good to spread rumors. Please do not go after stories. The Quran was not revealed to Muhammad in bed. It was revealed in the beginning in a cave. Ali was only a child then. So from now on be careful for everything you hear**.

 

[cathopologist]

** The Quran was not revealed to Muhammad in bed. It was revealed in the beginning in a cave.**

That’s why it should remain in the place of its origin.