Muslim converts to Christianity

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

 

[morning_star777]

And when Allah will say:

O Isa son of Marium!

did you say to men, Take me and my mother
** for two gods besides Allah**

Exactly I always wanted to say that&gave this 5:116verse as reference many times.but can you tell me when christians worship mary as god(goddess)?mary isn’t our goddess but koran claimed it!so isn’t a big mistake of koran?because catholics never think marry as god.

 

[morning_star777]

Exactly I always wanted to say that&gave this 5:116verse as reference many times.but can you tell me when christians worship mary as god(goddess)?mary isn’t our goddess but koran claimed it!so isn’t a big mistake of koran?because catholics never think marry as god.

we worship holy spirit,not marry.so
why ur allah didn’t say in koran that this so called 3rd god is God the holy spirit??did allah forget that???

 

[Sister_Amy]

no Amy i don’t know about this specific incident. I know that the ijma’ of Ahlul Sunna is that the Quran is the eternal uncreated word of Allah.

I know that you don’t like to address this topic but this does not mean you can present an Islam that is not “confusing” yet call Christianity confusing because we do not fear to compromise monothiesm if God showed Himself as Father, Word and Spirit in OT and NT.

You are obviously free to tackle these issues or not, but it wouldn’t be fair to neglect this part of Islam just because Muslims don’t like to talk about these issues in Islam or sometimes don’t even bother to ask such questions.

Let me tell you the answer, because it basically just voids what you said in your post here.

The caliph is sitting on his throne as his advisors bring in the imam who has clearly been beaten extensively–and this is not his first time coming in. And they ask him if the Qur’an was created… and he defiantly declares:

laa ilaaha illALLAH!

 

[Sister_Amy]

I was well aware of the complete hadith. I use to teach hadith. But how can you consciously engage in a haraam act knowing it is haraam. Yes Islam overpowered me, but how do you consciously engage in a haraam act. Allah says, the Quran, Oh you who believe, fear allah as He should be feared.

Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Islam is a Christian sect, probably branched off from the early Ebionite Christian sect, and developed into a complete new religion.

That is indeed a haughtily bizarre way to rationalize your decision.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Not really. How you described what you do to Mary (may Allah be pleased with her), that you ask her to pray for you, is shirk in Islam.

If a Muslim were to do the same thing to someone, it would also be shirk. If the Muslim said, “Oh Mary” and asker her to pray for him, or “Oh Jesus” and asked him to pray for him, or even “Oh Muhammad” (which they wouldn’t say probably, but more like “Oh Messenger of Allah”) and asked Muhammad to pray for him, he would be committing this grievous sin in Islam, shirk.

Muhammad (saaws) said to Ibn 'Abbas, and I think Christians should take advice from this statement as well:

If you ask, then ask of Allaah, and if you seek help then seek help from Allaah.

 

[TriuneUnity]

Not really. How you described what you do to Mary (may Allah be pleased with her), that you ask her to pray for you, is shirk in Islam.

Not only in Islam, my friend.

Muhammad (saaws) said to Ibn 'Abbas, and I think Christians should take advice from this statement as well:

If you ask, then ask of Allaah, and if you seek help then seek help from Allaah.

And the only thing I would say, other than your general advice that we not to pray to any other but God, with which I would agree, is that we believe Jesus IS Allah. So of course, we cannot accept any Islamic advice in that arena.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Not only in Islam, my friend.

And the only thing I would say, other than your general advice that we not to pray to any other but God, with which I would agree, is that we believe Jesus IS Allah. So of course, we cannot accept any Islamic advice in that arena.

See Qur’an 5:17, and 5:72.

 

[TriuneUnity]

See Qur’an 5:17, and 5:72.

See John 1:1-18

 

[JRamosSFO]

Actually, this is the hadith, narrated by Abu Hurayrah and reported by Imam al-Bukhari: “The religion (of Islam) is easy, and **whoever makes the religion a rigour, it will overpower him. **So, **follow a middle course (in worship); if you can’t do this, do something near to it and give glad tidings and seek help (of Allah) **at morn and at dusk and some part of night”.

For me, Islam has never been anything but easy. Even when I thought it was going to be hard, it was easy. I didn’t pray for 6 months after converting, but once I started, I never left it. I thought it might be too much, all 5 prayers every day, but it wasn’t. It was easy. My first Ramadan, I thought it was going to be too hard, but it wasn’t–it was easy. Everything has been like that. But in fact you epitomize that hadith, because as you said you made it difficult for yourself, and then it overpowered you. Wallaahi, Muhammad the Messenger of Allah, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, spoke the truth.

No kidding.

No offense or anything, but I think you had a need for spirituality before you left Islam. Reading books and eating only dhabihah, avoiding music and movies–that doesn’t make you a spiritual person.

Did you make a particular effort to study only outward sciences? Or inward ones?

Imam Malik said something really interesting–at least, I’ve read this attributed to Imam Malik. He said that learning Tasawwuf (inward sciences) without learning Knowledge (outward sciences fiqh, shari’ah, etc) is the way to heresy, and that learning Knowledge without the inward sciences is the way to corruption, but that you have to study both to find the truth and the reality of Islam.

But the Prophet Muhammad (saaws) gave some advice: he said to take food from the part of the plate that is closest to you. The plate will turn, and you can get to the other side later. But this applies to knowledge–we should only try to learn what we can grasp, and what we are prepared for.

As someone who converted to Islam from Christianity, I see spirituality in Islam that I couldn’t even begin to imagine as a Christian. And I do see places where, in Islam, people have diverged from spiritual and tended towards legal traditions. But I really see that spirituality is there, in Islam, with purpose, and with knowledge.

This Man has seemed very reasonable and peacable…why the harsh treatment? He has not made any attack against anyone…he only questions doctrine that the Holy Spirit has led him to question. Your attack appears to be insecurity in your own faith.

Peace in Christ

 

[JRamosSFO]

Salaam/peace;

here is one verse from holy Quran…the ** word Trinity is not mentioned here.**

And when Allah will say:

O Isa son of Marium!

did you say to men, Take me and my mother
** for two gods besides Allah**

[5.116]

A Cathloc told me :

We Catholics pray to Mary as the Mother of God, Mother of Jesus Christ.

He crowned Her Queen of Heaven, and** presented Her to us as Protectress** and Mother.

forum.catholic.org/viewtopic…675591#p675591

In Islam , if u beleive anyone other than God can

save/ protect u is called shirk/ blasphemy. Only punishment ( if die without repentance ) is eternal fire.

Unfortunately…there have always been, and always will be individuals that try to explain something that they don’t understand. If you want to know the truth of Catholic Doctrine…study Catholic Doctrine.

Peace in Christ

 

[Silouan]

Salaam/peace;
how do u pray now ?

In Orthodox Catholic Tradition, we are not so concerned about the out part of the prayer, we are more concerned with the inward reality of the prayer, that our mind be in our heart as we pray.

My particular way of praying, is that I start by standing, during certain parts of the prayer, I make prostrations.

which version ?

The Greek Old Testament and the Greek New Testament.

ur sis is right …u unnecessarily made the religion complicated.

The scholars of Islam actually complicated the religion of Islam.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[Angelos]

Not really. How you described what you do to Mary (may Allah be pleased with her), that you ask her to pray for you, is shirk in Islam.

If a Muslim were to do the same thing to someone, it would also be shirk. If the Muslim said, “Oh Mary” and asker her to pray for him, or “Oh Jesus” and asked him to pray for him, or even “Oh Muhammad” (which they wouldn’t say probably, but more like “Oh Messenger of Allah”) and asked Muhammad to pray for him, he would be committing this grievous sin in Islam, shirk.

Muhammad (saaws) said to Ibn 'Abbas, and I think Christians should take advice from this statement as well:

If you ask, then ask of Allaah, and if you seek help then seek help from Allaah.

According to your reasoning, the Koran is a book that encourages and promotes SHIRK:

Surah 49:1
O ye who believe! Be not forward in the presence of Allah and His messenger, and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower.

The Koran teaches shirk because it says that Mohammad is equal to Allah.

Surah 49:2
O ye who believe! Lift not up your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor shout when speaking to him as ye shout one to another, lest your works be rendered vain while ye perceive not.

Speaking more loudly than Mohammad can cancel the good deeds carried out by Muslims only for Allah. This is SHIRK!!!

Surah 9:29
Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah and His mssenger hath forbidden , and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

Mohammad can forbid in the same way as Allah does! Shirk!!!

Surah 33:36
And it becometh not a believing man or a believing woman, when Allah and His messenger have decided an affair (for them), that they should (after that) claim any say in their affair; and whoso is rebellious to Allah and His messenger, he verily goeth astray in error manifest.

Mohammad has the authority to decide an affair with Allah. Shirk!

Surah 9:84
And **never (O Muhammad) pray for one of them who dieth, nor stand by his grave. **Lo! they disbelieved in Allah and His messenger, and they died while they were evil-doers.

Mohammad’s prayers for people are so significant and effective that their lack is presented as a divine punishment! Shirk!!!

Thank goodness I am no more a Muslim, and I do not get involved in shirk.

 

[Silouan]

Not really. How you described what you do to Mary (may Allah be pleased with her), that you ask her to pray for you, is shirk in Islam.

If a Muslim were to do the same thing to someone, it would also be shirk. If the Muslim said, “Oh Mary” and asker her to pray for him, or “Oh Jesus” and asked him to pray for him, or even “Oh Muhammad” (which they wouldn’t say probably, but more like “Oh Messenger of Allah”) and asked Muhammad to pray for him, he would be committing this grievous sin in Islam, shirk.

Muhammad (saaws) said to Ibn 'Abbas, and I think Christians should take advice from this statement as well:

If you ask, then ask of Allaah, and if you seek help then seek help from Allaah.

Actually, in Islam saying oh Muhammad, oh Rasullah, while seeking the intercession through Muhammad and the Awilya, is considered permissible according to many great Islamic scholars. It falls into the catorgory of Tawassal, this particular act is called Istighatha. One of the proofs that Islamic scholars use as proof is, in every Salat that a Muslim makes, they say, "Peace be upon you Oh Prophet."

Orthodox Christians and Catholics seek intercession through Mary and the Saints, this is no difference than what is called Tawassal in Islam. In Islam Tawassal is permissible.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[Silouan]

Say: "O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Despair not of the Mercy of Allah: for Allah forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

That is indeed a haughtily bizarre way to rationalize your decision.

Greetings,

I understand Islam better now that I am a disbeliever than I did when I was a believer. I understand what caused me to leave Islam, and I understand how I could have remained muslim. I think and reflect alot.

To me Orthodox Christianity makes more sense. I like it better than Islam. My biggest problem with Islam now, is I don’t see how Muhammad fits into the Judai Christian picture.

Christians aren’t looking for nor are they waiting for another prophet to come after Jesus. We are not looking for Prophet Muhammad for Islam, nor are we looking for Prophet Joseph of the Mormons. In Orthodox Christianity, every believer is techically called to be a Prophet, called to be one with God, called to receive direct knowledge from God, receive direct revelation from God, every believing Christian.

Muslim pride themselves with the Holy Quran, Jesus did not leave us a Holy book, like Muhammad and Moses left their followers, to receive secondary knowledge from God. Jesus left us the Holy Spirit, in order that we receive direct knowledge from God, we are called to purify our heart, "Blessed are those who are pure in heart for they shall see God."

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[jen_fla]

They are the same in the sense that we both have the same origin. The Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church were one Church at one time for 1000 years. Depending on which side you are on, one will say they left us and deviated.

There are some differences between the two. The Orthodox Church does not recognize the Pope as the supreme leader of the Church. So some have said that the Orthodox Church is the Roman Catholic church without the pope. This isn’t necessarily true. There are alot of theological differences.

Orthodox Christianity is more concerned about the right faith, while Islam is more concerned about the right practice. Not that Islam does not value faith, it does, but more importance is placed on tjhe outward practice. For example, in Islam you are taught how to pray salat, outwardly speaking, you have the pillars of valid prayer and the condition of a valid prayer. But there is very little emphasis on the inward validity of the prayer, like khushoo. And in reality, your prayer is invalid if there is no khushoo. Because all you are doing is excercising if there is no khushoo.

There are alot of things that I like better.

The Holy book that I adhere to is the bible.

That is what I believed when I was a Muslim. I would use the following hadith as a proof.

Muhammad said, “There will not cease to be a group from my ummah triumphant upon the truth. Those who oppose them will not be able to harm them, nor will those who abandon them, until Allah’s order comes about (Day of Judgment) and they are in that state.” (Bukhari)

**When I pondered on this hadith as a Muslim, this was a hadith which provided the sole proof for the validity of Traditional Sunni Islam. Just look at the hadith. There will not cease to be a group from my Ummah truim,phant upon the truth. NOT CEASE, are the clear words. This means there will be an unbroken chain of transmitters from Muhammad to the companions to the tabieen, to the tabi tabieen up until now. And all other groups in the Islamic world do not have this claim of an unbroken chain, not the Shia, not the Salafi, not the Quran only, not none of them. But the Traditional Sunni Muslims. ** And thus it is obivous that Allah caused those other groups to die out. None of them exist, if they do exist today, like the Salafis, Mutazila, they were revived, they don’t have an unbroken chain. NOT CEASE. Show me the Salafis not ceasing to exist, from century to century up until now. Or any other group for that matter. This is what I believed as a Muslim, and this is why I followed the Traditional Sunni Muslims.

In Christ,

Silouan

hi silouan.

just read all your posts. they are beautiful.

you seem very knowledgeable about islam. can you help me understand who the wahhabi are in relationship to the traditional sunni muslims? don’t they consider themselves trad sunni?

thank you for your answers.

peace.

 

[LoveofGod]

Jesus The Eternal Kalimat online audio series ancientfaith.com/podcasts/byantoro has great insights for Muslim-Christian interactions. Curious if you are familiar with the following Indonesian raised muslim ?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

Greetings,

…I don’t see how Muhammad fits into the Judai Christian picture.

Christians aren’t looking for nor are they waiting for another prophet to come after Jesus.

by late Ahmed Deedat

Three Questions!

Please note that three different and distinct questions were posed to John the Baptist and to which he gave three emphatic “NO’S” as answers.

To recapitulate:-

1. ART THOU THE CHRIST?
2. ART THOU ELIAS?
3. ART THOU THAT PROPHET?

But the learned men of Christendom somehow only see two questions implied here.

To make doubly clear that the Jews definitely had T-H-R-E-E separate prophecies in their minds when they were interrogating John the Baptist,

let us read the remonstrance of the Jews in the verses following:

"AND THEY ASKED HIM, AND SAID UNTO HIM, WHY BAPTIZEST THOU THEN, IF THOU BE

a) NOT THAT CHRIST,

b) NOR ELIAS,

c) NEITHER THAT PROPHET?" (John 1:25)

The Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of THREE distinct prophecies:

One, the coming of CHRIST.

Two the coming of ELIAS, and

Three, the coming of THAT PROPHET.

 

[Sister_Amy]

This Man has seemed very reasonable and peacable…why the harsh treatment? He has not made any attack against anyone…he only questions doctrine that the Holy Spirit has led him to question. Your attack appears to be insecurity in your own faith.

Peace in Christ

Please re-read my post. The whole thing. There is not a single attack in it. It was not an attack nor did it contain attacks, and I’m kind of hurt that you even thought there was. He certainly wasn’t questioning any “doctrine.” I merely replied to his comments and asked a couple questions.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Actually, in Islam saying oh Muhammad, oh Rasullah, while seeking the intercession through Muhammad and the Awilya, is considered permissible according to many great Islamic scholars. It falls into the catorgory of Tawassal, this particular act is called Istighatha. One of the proofs that Islamic scholars use as proof is, in every Salat that a Muslim makes, they say, "Peace be upon you Oh Prophet."

Orthodox Christians and Catholics seek intercession through Mary and the Saints, this is no difference than what is called Tawassal in Islam. In Islam Tawassal is permissible.

In Christ,

Silouan

I have never heard a scholar tell me that tawassal is permissible. Only laypeople. Seriously. But I anticipated your reaction and consulted a scholarly website which I prefer to see the question and it said, indeed, that making “tawassul” by calling upon Muhammad while he is in the grave is shirk.

And not every Muslim actually says that in salaat. According to the ijtihad of Ibn Mas’ud, many Muslims actually say what translated to “Peace be upon the prophet…” instead.

So I’ll repeat the words of Muhammad (saaws) on the subject.

If you ask, then ask of Allaah, and if you seek help then seek help from Allaah.

Nothing else, nobody else has any power to answer your request.