Muslim converts to Christianity

[Sister_Amy]

Greetings,

I understand Islam better now that I am a disbeliever than I did when I was a believer. I understand what caused me to leave Islam, and I understand how I could have remained muslim. I think and reflect alot.

Sure.

To me Orthodox Christianity makes more sense. **I like it better than Islam. ** My biggest problem with Islam now, is I don’t see how Muhammad fits into the Judai Christian picture.

Sure.

Christians aren’t looking for nor are they waiting for another prophet to come after Jesus. We are not looking for Prophet Muhammad for Islam, nor are we looking for Prophet Joseph of the Mormons. In Orthodox Christianity, every believer is techically called to be a Prophet, called to be one with God, called to receive direct knowledge from God, receive direct revelation from God, every believing Christian.

Sure. If you receive revelation from God then can you PM it to me please?

Muslim pride themselves with the Holy Quran, Jesus did not leave us a Holy book, like Muhammad and Moses left their followers, to receive secondary knowledge from God. Jesus left us the Holy Spirit, in order that we receive direct knowledge from God, we are called to purify our heart, "Blessed are those who are pure in heart for they shall see God."

Wallaahi, Jesus was a preacher and he did not preach anything but the Good News which God revealed to Him, with the wisdom God granted him. If you believe in Jesus, then follow HIS teachings. My good friend and I who were both Christian have this same view about the teachings of Jesus in the Gospel–that they were compelling proofs towards Islam.

If Jesus did not leave a Holy book, then you can throw out the New Testament right? And you can throw out the Old Testament as well, right? If He left you with the Holy Spirit, then I guess the Holy Spirit is giving everyone contradictory revelation… quite problematic, wouldn’t you say?

Jesus left a message, the message he preached, and he left it with his disciples.

Said he, according to some Christian sources:

You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

The Koran teaches shirk because it says that Mohammad is equal to Allah.

That’s really funny
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/2funny.gif

I can’t believe that non - Muslims can bring this kind of absurd charges against Quran .

Testimony of a Muslim :

"There is nothing divine or worthy of being worshipped except for Almighty God, and Muhammad (p ) is the Messenger and Servant of God".

This is the prayer we recite in every Salat/ daily prayers.

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.

The Beneficent, the Merciful.

Master of the Day of Judgment.

Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.

Keep us on the right path.

The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors.

Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

( Quran , chapter 1)

Allah sent Prophets ( pbut ) to all nations for guidance . What the Prophets (p) told people to follow --those were commands from God. So , people needed to follow the Prophets …it does not mean that they were ordered to worship Prophets . By listening to Prophets , they obeyed God.

Jews were cursed in the past because they disobeyed some Prophets & killed & tried to kill many Prophets . Thus , disobeying Prophets , Jews disobeyed God.

 

[Sister_Amy]

See John 1:1-18

See Qur’an 4:171.

 

[TriuneUnity]

See Qur’an 4:171.

See 1 Corinthians 15

This is fun.

While we’re at it, got any stuffed grape leaves?

 

[Sister_Amy]

hi silouan.

just read all your posts. they are beautiful.

you seem very knowledgeable about islam. can you help me understand who the wahhabi are in relationship to the traditional sunni muslims? don’t they consider themselves trad sunni?

thank you for your answers.

peace.

Wahhabi is a bad word used to describe some traditional Sunni Muslims. Sometimes they call themselves “Salafi” (never Wahhabi) meaning they are trying to follow the Salaf who are the righteous predecessors–i.e., the first few generations of people after Muhammad (saaws). They are traditional Sunni Muslims. They just reject some (many) deviations which have crept into other Muslim traditions, like worshiping saints, graves, etc. Some people think they are hardline but really they stick to authentic Islamic sources and scholars trained in them.

There is this movement among the Muslims that aims to instead of just simplifying and dumbing down the religion for the masses, and avoiding authentic original sources as was the case for centuries, this movement aims to motivate students of knowledge to improve themselves and raise the overall knowldege and capabilities of the Muslims, allowing for better understanding of how Islam can deal with today’s world, with both flexibility and firmness, and knowing when which is appropriate.

But if you tell people not to worship a rock (black stone), not to worship a building (Ka’ba), not to worship graves (“saints,” prophets), then sometimes you get this label “Wahhabi.”

I’ve been called a Wahhabi here sometimes even. Silouan might even call me a Wahhabi because I said Muslims aren’t supposed to call on the Prophet (saaws) for help instead of Allah.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

Actually, in Islam saying oh Muhammad, oh Rasullah, while seeking the intercession through Muhammad and the Awilya, is considered permissible according to many great Islamic scholars.

Muslims believe that on the Last Day , Prophet
Muhammed (p) will request Allah to forgive many sinners…how this can be compared with making statues of saints , bow down & pray directly to them ?

Salat that a Muslim makes, they say, "Peace be upon you Oh Prophet."

so ? It proves that we are asking Allah to send His mercy & blessings on the Prophet as Allah blessed Abraham (p) in the past .

Oh Allah, send grace and honour on Muhammad and
On the family and true followers of Muhammad

just as you sent Grace and Honour on Ibrahim
and on the family and true followers of Ibrahim

Surely, you are praiseworthy, the Great.

Oh Allah, send your blessing on Muhammad and
the true followers of Muhammad,

just as you sent blessings on Ibrahim
and his true followers
Surely, you are praiseworthy, the Great

Asking dead saints to pray now & ask God to bless a Prophet …eeeeeek these are same to u ?

 

[Sister_Amy]

See 1 Corinthians 15

This is fun.

While we’re at it, got any stuffed grape leaves?

See Qur’an 35:18.

As if I had time to spend rolling grape leaves for you.

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace;

That’s really funny
http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/2funny.gif

I can’t believe that non - Muslims can bring this kind of absurd charges against Quran .

Testimony of a Muslim :

"There is nothing divine or worthy of being worshipped except for Almighty God, and Muhammad (p ) is the Messenger and Servant of God".

This is the prayer we recite in every Salat/ daily prayers.

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.

The Beneficent, the Merciful.

Master of the Day of Judgment.

Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.

Keep us on the right path.

The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors.

Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.

( Quran , chapter 1)

Allah sent Prophets ( pbut ) to all nations for guidance . What the Prophets (p) told people to follow --those were commands from God. So , people needed to follow the Prophets …it does not mean that they were ordered to worship Prophets . By listening to Prophets , they obeyed God.

Jews were cursed in the past because they disobeyed some Prophets & killed & tried to kill many Prophets . Thus , disobeying Prophets , Jews disobeyed God.

Instead of entertaining yourself and undermining your scripture by highlighting its contradictory verses, go and read my post in which I quoted several Koran verses deifying your Mohammad and committing shirk!

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace

Muslims believe that on the Last Day , Prophet
Muhammed (p) will request Allah to forgive many sinners…how this can be compared with making statues of saints , bow down & pray directly to them ?

,

According to your Koran, Mohammad’s prayers sufficed to guarantee one believer’s salvation and damnation.

so ? It proves that we are asking Allah to send His mercy & blessings on the Prophet as Allah blessed Abraham (p) in the past .

Oh Allah, send grace and honour on Muhammad and
On the family and true followers of Muhammad

just as you sent Grace and Honour on Ibrahim
and on the family and true followers of Ibrahim

Surely, you are praiseworthy, the Great.

Oh Allah, send your blessing on Muhammad and
the true followers of Muhammad,

just as you sent blessings on Ibrahim
and his true followers
Surely, you are praiseworthy, the Great

Asking dead saints to pray now & ask God to bless a Prophet …eeeeeek these are same to u ?

Why do you need to recite the name of a DEAD man in all your prayers and worship?

The Koran claims that Muslims dying in Jihaad are NOT dead, but still ALIVE!

You should study your scripture more carefully.

 

[Silouan]

My good friend and I who were both Christian have this same view about the teachings of Jesus in the Gospel–that they were compelling proofs towards Islam.

I use to be Muslim, and I have a pretty good understanding of Islam.

And not every Muslim actually says that in salaat. According to the ijtihad of Ibn Mas’ud, many Muslims actually say what translated to “Peace be upon the prophet…” instead.

This understanding has its origin in Al Albani’s book, the Prophet’s described prayer. And if you want to take your Islam from him, that is fine, I guess.

But that understanding of Ibn Masud narration is incorrect. This incorrect understanding of Ibn Masud’s narration cannot be found in any of the books of Fiqh, by recongized scholars of fiqh, any any of the four madhabs. Ibn Qudamah, Nawawi, Ibn Hajar AL Haytami, Tahawi, Ibn Abi Zayd, etc etc. You won’t find this understanding among the recongized scholars of fiqh.

I won’t debate you about it. If you want to follow that position, go ahead.

If Jesus did not leave a Holy book, then you can throw out the New Testament right? And you can throw out the Old Testament as well, right? If He left you with the Holy Spirit, then I guess the Holy Spirit is giving everyone contradictory revelation… quite problematic, wouldn’t you say?

Muhammad left the Quran, not hadith. Hadith was collected by his followers. Do you understand the difference?

So you don’t neglect hadith simply because he didn’t leave it. (ie in the form of a book) It is vital in understanding Quran and how to implement it.

Jesus left the Holy Spirit. The Gospel was collected by His disicples. Do you understand the difference?

So we don’t neglect the gospel simply because he didn’t leave it 9ie in the form of a book). It is vital in understanding the holy spirit and how to access it.

And Jesus actually told us to search the old testament.

And your heart has to be pure in order receive proper direct revelation. Jesus said, “Blessed are those who are pure in heart for they shall see God.” As Christians we have the ability to gain access to God directly, it doesn’t mean every Christian does automatically.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[Silouan]

I’ve been called a Wahhabi here sometimes even. Silouan might even call me a Wahhabi because I said Muslims aren’t supposed to call on the Prophet (saaws) for help instead of Allah.

You definitely have a Wahabi understanding of Islam. Without doubt. I use to be Salafi, because I follow the correct understanding of Traditional Sunni Islam.

I understand your mentality, therefore, I realize it would be almost impossible to convince otherwise because I use to be Salafi/Wahabi).

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[Silouan]

I have never heard a scholar tell me that tawassal is permissible. Only laypeople. .

That is because you are not well-read.

Majority of Islamic scholars consider Tawassul to be permissible. In all four madhabs of Fiqh, Tawassul is permissible, the Hanbali, the Maliki, the Shafi, and the Hanafi.

In fact, Ibn Taymiyyah ( a Hanbali scholar) is the first scholar, to oppose Tawassul. Even in the Hanbali madhab, Ibn Taymiyyah works on fiqh are not really studied.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace;

by late Ahmed Deedat

Three Questions!

Please note that three different and distinct questions were posed to John the Baptist and to which he gave three emphatic “NO’S” as answers.

To recapitulate:-

1. ART THOU THE CHRIST?
2. ART THOU ELIAS?
3. ART THOU THAT PROPHET?

But the learned men of Christendom somehow only see two questions implied here.

To make doubly clear that the Jews definitely had T-H-R-E-E separate prophecies in their minds when they were interrogating John the Baptist,

let us read the remonstrance of the Jews in the verses following:

"AND THEY ASKED HIM, AND SAID UNTO HIM, WHY BAPTIZEST THOU THEN, IF THOU BE

a) NOT THAT CHRIST,

b) NOR ELIAS,

c) NEITHER THAT PROPHET?" (John 1:25)

The Jews were waiting for the fulfillment of THREE distinct prophecies:

One, the coming of CHRIST.

Two the coming of ELIAS, and

Three, the coming of THAT PROPHET.

I cannot see what Ahmed Deedat tries to get at. He probably has no reason for referring to the first chapter in John’s Gospel. The three questions of the people visiting Elijah do not prove anything unless we blindly acknowledge that whatever those questioners SUPPOSE and however they interpret the Torah are accurate and reliable. This is not the case. The Torah never says that THE MESSSIAH and THAT PROPHET are distinct people although some people presume so.

The Torah also refers to the Davidic King and the Suffering Servant in different places and different context even though the apostles and early Christians believed that the suffering servant was no one else than Jesus the Messiah.

Muslims cannot restrict Jesus’ distinct attributes and titles in order to prove that the verse in Deuteronomy is about their messenger. Moses makes it clear that THE prophet will be an Israelite (Jew as well) and be sent to the ISRAELITES. Mohammad was neither Jew nor Israelite. Thus, he was not that prophet.

 

[Silouan]

hi silouan.

just read all your posts. they are beautiful.

you seem very knowledgeable about islam. can you help me understand who the wahhabi are in relationship to the traditional sunni muslims? don’t they consider themselves trad sunni?

thank you for your answers.

peace.

The Traditional Sunni Muslims follow one of the four madhabs of Fiqh (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi, Hanbali), and one of the three madhabs of Aqidah (Ashari, Maturidi, some have included the Athari).

For over 1000 years this is what the Sunni muslims have followed and taught.

The Wahabis (Salafis) have their origins with Ibn Taymiyyah, a Hanbali scholar who went against the majority and oppose the majority who was criticised by the leading scholars of his time. Ibn Subki said of Ibn Taymiyyah, “His knowledge exceeded his intellect.” The fame of Ibn Taymiyyah died with him.

In the 1800, Abdul Wahab, revived the teachings of Ibn Taymiyyah and oppose the Traditional Sunni Muslims, and labled them mushirks, kafirs etc etc. Because of the Saudi Oil, this heretical Islamic sect was able to spread across the globe as true Islam, this Wahabism, is the origin of the terrorist Osama Bin Laden. People who want to oppose Traditional Sunni Islam to follow their desires, kill innocent people and shed blood.

In Christ,

Silouan

 

[inJESUS]

Let me tell you the answer, because it basically just voids what you said in your post here.

The caliph is sitting on his throne as his advisors bring in the imam who has clearly been beaten extensively–and this is not his first time coming in. And they ask him if the Qur’an was created… and he defiantly declares:

laa ilaaha illALLAH!

They did not ask him if there is more than one God…they asked a clear answer and the Ijma’ of the Sunna does say the Quran is eternal and uncreated and there is no deity except Allah.

 

[JRamosSFO]

Please re-read my post. The whole thing. There is not a single attack in it. It was not an attack nor did it contain attacks, and I’m kind of hurt that you even thought there was. He certainly wasn’t questioning any “doctrine.” I merely replied to his comments and asked a couple questions.

Sister Amy,
In your posting’s you stated:

“No offense or anything, but I think you had a need for spirituality before you left Islam. Reading books and eating only dhabihah, avoiding music and movies–that doesn’t make you a spiritual person.”

Silouan seems not only to have an excellent grasp of Islam and Christianity, but also a very deep spirituality.

I myself claim to know very little of Islam, but I have been fortunate enough to have very close contact with several very devout Muslim’s. Their attitude towards the beliefs of others has always been very non-confrontational and reasonable. I’ve always admired that in them, and see the same respect in Silouan’s demeanor.

I’m sorry if your feeling’s were hurt. I’ve been very facinated with this thread because of my admiration of Devout Muslim’s, and have re-read the whole thing in an attempt to learn more. Is you’re statement above not an attack…or maybe at least a challenge?

Peace in Christ,
Jason

 

[TriuneUnity]

See Qur’an 35:18.

As if I had time to spend rolling grape leaves for you.

Pfft, I see how it is.

 

[Malgosia]

My brother-in-law threatened to call the cops on me for trespassing when I tried to visit my family.

He also threatened my parents and sister to not let them see his wife/kids (my sister and niece and nephew) if they let me visit them, because I converted.

It’s certainly not being killed but immensely painful all the same.

Well, being thretened that someone would call the cops on you is not the same as being shot at multiple times by your own father as Mark Gabriel, an Egiptian convert to Christianity was. He has had assassins sent after him, who stubbded him and left him for dead. He lived, by the grace of God, to tell the truth. Many are not that lucky and do not survive conversion from Islam.
The family who gave him his first Bible had their business burned to the ground, and had to flee Egipt.

That is a definition of “immensely painful”, and not what you described.

The point is, sister Amy, you had a choice and you made it. Your family is probably scared that you would try to convert your nieces and nephews, therefore they do not allow contact.

In Christianity you are free to make choices. I guess, you did not believe that you were a child of God, or that God loved you enough to die for you.

As for me, I prefer to be a child of God, not His slave or servant.

If anyone is interested in learning more about conversion from Islam to Christianity, please get you hands on a book “Jesus and Muhammad”, by Mark A. Gabriel.

God Bless.

 

[Malgosia]

Wallaahi, Jesus was a preacher and he did not preach anything but the Good News which God revealed to Him, with the wisdom God granted him. If you believe in Jesus, then follow HIS teachings. My good friend and I who were both Christian have this same view about the teachings of Jesus in the Gospel–that they were compelling proofs towards Islam.

If Jesus did not leave a Holy book, then you can throw out the New Testament right? And you can throw out the Old Testament as well, right? If He left you with the Holy Spirit, then I guess the Holy Spirit is giving everyone contradictory revelation… quite problematic, wouldn’t you say?

Jesus left a message, the message he preached, and he left it with his disciples.

Said he, according to some Christian sources:

You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.

Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to guide His Church, which was built on Peter, the first Pope. He said: “you are Peter, and on this Rock (Petra) I will buid my church and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevent against it”. This is a promise that this church, established 33 AD will be forever protected by God.

Almost 2000 years and still going strong.

The Holy Spirit never gives contradictory revelation. What some think is a revelation is just a figment of their imagination. They think they are guided by the Holy Spirit, but they really are not.

God Bless.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I use to be Muslim, and I have a pretty good understanding of Islam.

I used to be Christian, and I have a pretty good understanding of Christianity.

I don’t find scholars who agree with this position of Ibn Mas’ud, I brought it up however to make a point. A point which was apparently lost on you, as you attempted to demonstrate some knowledge of fiqh instead. You may refer to ‘Muslim Woman’s’ answer to the same question, as she had a nice succinct reply on that point.

Muhammad left the Quran, not hadith. Hadith was collected by his followers. Do you understand the difference?

It doesn’t make sense to say that Muhammad, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, did not leave “hadith.” I refer you to the Farewell Khutbah in which he said he left two things behind him, the Qur’an and his Sunnah.

So you don’t neglect hadith simply because he didn’t leave it. (ie in the form of a book) It is vital in understanding Quran and how to implement it.

Honestly I don’t think you are grasping the concept of revelation at all.

Jesus left the Holy Spirit. The Gospel was collected by His disicples. Do you understand the difference?

The Holy Spirit belonged to Jesus, that he could leave it? Odd thing for you to say. The Gospel was the message of Jesus, what he preached. But since you insist that he didn’t leave a book, why do you bother with the New Testament, seriously? If you want to follow his message, that’s one thing. But why this other --------?

So we don’t neglect the gospel simply because he didn’t leave it 9ie in the form of a book). It is vital in understanding the holy spirit and how to access it.

Funny then that what you have is a book. You should neglect the book, then, and follow the gospel.

And Jesus actually told us to search the old testament.

Search it for what?

And your heart has to be pure in order receive proper direct revelation. Jesus said, “Blessed are those who are pure in heart for they shall see God.” As Christians we have the ability to gain access to God directly, it doesn’t mean every Christian does automatically.

Muslims have access to God directly. They don’t have to go through Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, through saints, through priests, through anyone at all. Directly to God.

And in fact every human being has that opportunity–direct access to God. And God even sent a message to the whole of mankind. Who wouldn’t want to listen to that?