Muslim converts to Christianity

[Isa_Almisry]

Sure.

Sure.

Sure. If you receive revelation from God then can you PM it to me please?

Wallaahi, Jesus was a preacher and he did not preach anything but the Good News which God revealed to Him, with the wisdom God granted him. If you believe in Jesus, then follow HIS teachings. My good friend and I who were both Christian have this same view about the teachings of Jesus in the Gospel–that they were compelling proofs towards Islam.

If Jesus did not leave a Holy book, then you can throw out the New Testament right? And you can throw out the Old Testament as well, right? If He left you with the Holy Spirit, then I guess the Holy Spirit is giving everyone contradictory revelation

only if you are trying to throw the Quran in too.

… quite problematic, wouldn’t you say?

Only if you are claiming that Islam has anything to do with what Jesus taught.

Jesus left a message, the message he preached, and he left it with his disciples.

Jesus didn’t leave a message. He is the Message.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

See Qur’an 4:171.

An odd choice of verse, as it calls Christ God’s Word (see John 1:1) and HIs Spirit.

 

[trustme80]

trinity is not that complicated
if the quran is god’s word, god’s word certainly can manifest into a human ( unless you want to limit what god can do )
and god’s word is obviously from god, and it’s not about language or sound
the word is meaning, escence, substance, idea
language is limited and only a tool to symbolize
( i. e. you can burn a book and whats written in it, but you cant kill the story or what idea it represents )
there are many ways of delivering a story, trough a movie,
a book, etc.

if god is more than we can imagine, it’s stupid that god only speaks arabic, it makes sense more if the guide is a life ( a human act is universal ), than a book written in an ancient language where a word can have up to dozens of meaning, thus misunderstood and complicate things

and if moslems read and live by the quran, than christians celebrate jesus and act accordingly ( unfortunately, not many christians do ), and the bible is a testimony to jesus

as i understand it, trinity would vaguely be like sun+sunray+sunwarmth = one sun

be creative!
god is creative, that’s why god created my dog

the only way you can touch the sun is by going out, open your eyes and see how the sunlight ( jesus ) iluminates everything and be grateful for it, it touches your skin and you realize the warmth ( holy spirit )
and it’s also a good source of vitamin d

well, words are limited
sorry sbout my english, i’m indonesian

God Bless

 

[inJESUS]

welcome trustme80

good post.

 

[trustme80]

Funny then how she didn’t say that though. She said son and holy spirit… not wife/mother and son. Proves you wrong upon wrong. Ouch.

Yep you are. But I’m soooo bored today! So I hit “view post.”

LOL. Walhamdulillah. As Muslim Woman pointed out already (quite cleverly, I might add), the Trinity is, to Christians, a mystery!! hehe

trinity is not that complicated
if the quran is god’s word, god’s word certainly can manifest into a human ( unless you want to limit what god can do )
and god’s word is obviously from god, and it’s not about language or sound
the word is meaning, escence, substance, idea
language is limited and only a tool to symbolize
( i. e. you can burn a book and whats written in it, but you cant kill the story or what idea it represents )
there are many ways of delivering a story, trough a movie,
a book, etc.

if god is more than we can imagine, it’s stupid that god only speaks arabic, it makes sense more if the guide is a life ( a human act is universal ), than a book written in an ancient language where a word can have up to dozens of meaning, thus misunderstood and complicate things

and if moslems read and live by the quran, than christians celebrate jesus and act accordingly ( unfortunately, not many christians do ), and the bible is a testimony to jesus

as i understand it, trinity would vaguely be like sun+sunray+sunwarmth = one sun

be creative!
god is creative, that’s why god created my dog

the only way you can touch the sun is by going out, open your eyes and see how the sunlight ( jesus ) iluminates everything and be grateful for it, it touches your skin and you realize the warmth ( holy spirit )
and it’s also a good source of vitamin d

well, words are limited
sorry sbout my english, i’m indonesian

God Bless

 

[trustme80]

oops, repost

hi, thanks inJESUS:thumbsup:

 

[Isa_Almisry]

My sheikh is Hanafi.

I hope jen_fla can see that it’s just a way people try to marginalize certain opinions. You can call me a Wahhabi or Salafi or whatever. I am a Muslim and don’t need any of your labels.

The problem is that Usamah bin Laden, the Alawis, the Twelvers, the Ismailis all say they are Muslim. Are you all the same?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

1700s actually, and not Abdul Wahhab but Ibn Abdul Wahhab and his goal was not to oppose “traditional sunni muslims” but to eliminate the actual shirk which had crept in to the society. They weren’t heretical, and neither do they call “traditional sunni muslims” mushriks. That’s unfortunately what has been said about them, and while it might be a practice of the laypeople, the scholars would shy away from calling anyone a kaafir who declared laa ilaaha illallah.

Osama bin Laden really has nothing to do with “wahhabism” (whatever that means) but got caught up in the teachings of Qutb which you haven’t pointed out.

Saudis have a maashaaAllah wonderful understanding of a basic Islamic concept–tawheed. Tawheed means the oneness of God. Has nothing to do with killing people as Silouan would lead us to believe.

Oh? Do you know anything about the rise of the Saudi state by the Ikhwan? They cracked a few eggs (and heads).

 

[Isa_Almisry]

You have totally missed the point, and it wasn’t really that deep either.

Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal–you know who this was, right? Like, when he lived?

I don’t even know what you mean by “Ijma’ of the Sunna.” This view was NOT popular at this time, and the Imam, may Allah have mercy on him, was tortured for not acknowledging the popular view.

But instead of letting the people fall into confusion over this matter (which I’m pretty sure is what you’re trying to do) he brought them back to the same essential foundation that there is nothing worthy of worship except Allah.

And actually when I read this story (quite recently) it reminded me of how you keep bringing this up as if to say that the Qur’an has consciousness or deserves worship as a personality of the divine. And in fact the best way to answer you, I think, is in the way of Imam Ahmad.

Laa ilaaha illALLAH!

Actually Ibn Hanbal’s, not the caliph’s, was the popular view.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I already read that book. And I feel bad for you if you actually believe that story to be truth. Seriously, if I see someone pulling Mark Gabriel out into a serious discussion about Islam and converts… I kind of turn off. I don’t understand how people believe things like that… but then, I guess people believe what they want and turn off common sense when it comes to religion.

Do you turn off because you think it not true, or because it makes you uncomfortable. We believe stuff like that because in Egypt and in the rest of the Muslim world we see it happen.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

** Sis Amy, you have given a perfectly correct reply to silouan. You reply is very gentle too. That person is mistaken, does not know the meaning of Prophet. If every one of the christians was a prophet then they should prophesize, tell something they received from their God. There is nothing they receive. In fact the church denies any revelation now. They have closed the door to all types of revelation.**
You are confusing us with the closed doors of Ijtihad.

Private revelation continues. Every chrismation/confirmation is a personal Pentacost.

The example of the salt was very good. The church has lost the teachings, the essence of Jesus teachings. If Jesus ever came back to this world, he will not be able to see any of his own people. Jesus never said that he was God. He never preached even a single day that he was God. He was never worshipped as a God.

As Jesus said, Abraham saw His day and was glad, because, as He said, “I AM.”

 

[Isa_Almisry]

** What Corinthians has got to do with Jesus. Is that the words of Jesus? If it is not in the 4 gospels then it need not be anything. Not enough proof. Specially if it is from paul then no need to believe that.**

Since Companions collected the Quran, I guess it need not be anything.

It is described above by Muslim woman that Jews persecuted and killed and downgraded (disrespected) the prophets. The Christians did the opposite. They raised the ranks of prophet (mankind) to that of a God. The christians raised the ranks of mere followers of Jesus to that of lords.

As Angelos already pointed out, what do you say of the apotheosis of Muhammad in Islam?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

** Not so. Please understand that Jesus told you all about the coming of the holy ghost or holy spirit. He said he had many things to say unto the people but the people could not bear it at that time. See all that in the John ch. 16 or 17.

He said, " Howbeit when the spirit of Truth is come, he shall guide you into all truth. For he shall not speak for himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.

And he shall show you things to come…"

It means the message and mission of Jesus was not complete and he went away. He gave the good news of some one to come after him to lead people to all truth. The christians call that Holy spirit. But holy spirit was already with Jesus and some disciples.

At another place Jesus says " He shall give you another Parclete". It means one parclete is there already and God will give another Parclete.

Please remember and tell if any one had seen the holy spirit walking about with Jesus?? No. The holy spirit was with Jesus and his disciples but nobody saw the holy spirit…

Similarly, the holy spirit that is to come to lead people unto all truth will also be with some one. The spirit will not be hovering around in the air. We Muslims believe that the Holy spirit came upon Muhammad and gave all the messages. That is the angel Gabriel which is called the holy spirit in the Quran as Rooh ul Ameen.

The holy spirit that was told by Jesus had come true to Muhammad. But church denies it on various grounds. There is no excuse. If the holy spirit can visit Joseph the carpenter, it can visit the wife of Pilate, it can visit Jesus and his disciples then why it cannot come to Muhammad?**

Because the Holy Spirit did not cry out “Abba!” in Muhammad. Galatians 4:6.

Was Muhammad a Spirit? So how could he be the coming of the promised Spirit? And those to whom Christ spoke, experienced Pentacost, so they knew what He meant.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Salaam/peace;

holy Spirit was already there even before Jesus (p) was born , Christans am I right ?

During the time of Jesus (p) , people were were looking for ’ That Prophet ’ . I wonder , why Christans don’t think about this . Ok , if **that Prophet is not Muhammed (p) , who is he ? ** Can’t be holy Spirit as he was already there .

And why aren’t the Christians not waiting for anyone (except Christ’s return), nor have they, since the coming of the Holy Spirit.

Note: the Jews are still waiting for the Messiah and Elijah. They are NOT waiting for “the Prophet.”

 

[Isa_Almisry]

yes Allah couldn’t care less about the prophets’ teachings but when it came to Muhammad, he miraculously stopped the “corruptors” from “corrupting” the references about Muhammad…mashallah…

Always odd how the Muslims insist that Muhammad is in the Bible while at the same time insisting that the Bible is corrupt.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Sorry, church cannot be a bride. Paraclete was not to give any birth, and that to a church is taking too much liberty in religion. It could not be allowed. Already the christians have many metaphors which they start with and later try to take literal meanings.

Why? Because you say so?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Wonderful. That prophet had not arrived till the time of Jesus. That is proved by the first chapter of John. The Jews were looking for three persons namely, Elias, Messiah, That prophet. They could not find any of them.

Even later, Jesus never told the Jews that he was that Prophet (of Deut 18:18). But the present day christians are taking Jesus as that Prophet. We need a word of support from Jesus that he was That Prophet. But there will be none, as usual.

Always prophets have been coming in the world. The christians have landed a God amongst the men. That is a diversion.

Then when Jesus told his friends about the coming of a Comforter, they made it into holy Ghost. That is another major diversion. Because previously, only human messengers had been coming to the people for their guidance.But the church denied it all and changed it to the coming of a ghost. Quite interesting.

Amazing! The Muslims claim the OT is corrupt (Deuteronomy is in the OT), and the religion is corrupt, and yet they insist that the NT (which they also claim is corrupt) account of the corrupt Jews somehow proves that Muhammad is “the prophet.”

 

[Isa_Almisry]

That is right. Just like the new testament came after the old testament, both of these were for the limited people (Israelis) and for the limited time only. The message of Moses was for that time. The message of Jesus was also for the time and not for the whole mankind.

But the last testament (Quran) is for all people for all time. It is clearly written and claimed in the Quran. Not some supposed thing. So it had to be preserved for ever. Allahgave all information about the previous good teachings also.Did not ignore them. Be happy.

The Quran calls itself an “Arabic Quran.” Muslims claim it cannot be translated. Well, then it’s only for the Arabs.

But not this Arab.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Salaam/peace;

ok , pl. let us know about that Prophet from Israel … what’s his name ?

Jesus.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

**Your post is partially good. You have some good ideas. But please note that I would like to read those lines of the NT in which Jesus said that he was God. I feel that you will not find any. And please remain to the four Gospels only for the beginning of your effort.

Then you have to tell me that people were actually worshipping Jesus in his life time.

Please see the sentence "Before Abraham was I am’ It is a strange sentence, not clearly menaingful. Is that the way to prove that Jesus is God? No.**

That’s only because Muslims have no concept of Scripture fulfilling Scripture, or that when you claim to believe “what was sent down before” that means actually reading it. Any reader of the NT knows, from the OT (Exodos 3, the Burning Bush), what is meant. And from the Jews reaction that St. John recounts (Jn. 8:59, conpare Jn. 10:30-3), they understood Him plainly.

Also, “I am what I am”. Again this is another strange sentence. Could it not be done any better?? "I am what I am " will prove that Jesus is God. I won’t believe that.

And you explain the Quranic verses of God sitting on His throne how?