Muslim converts to Christianity

[Isa_Almisry]

So we should take the word of a Fiction writer who made up a story? By your logic then I guess we should eat green eggs and ham.

No, of course not.
It’s HAM!

Or perhaps there is a park with Dinosaurs wondering it. Dan Brown write a fictional story that was controversial to sell books, and make a movie.
There is no proof to what he says Leonardo Da Vinci was trying to portray.
If you claim that the Da Vinci Code is truth, then I must affairm then that The Book the Satanic Verses is also truth. I have not read it, but I think I will now since it is the Truth of the Quran. It must be, because many of you Muslims wanted to kill the Author

Muslim author. Planten says Dan Brown is Christian, Salman Rushidie is as least as Muslim.

to keep the Truth Shrouded. Notice that, no one has tried to Kill Dan Brown, because we know what he wrote is fiction and has no weight to it. If we were so afraid of what he wrote, I think people would really have tried to stop him.

To be fair, some did try to stop the movie, which, incredible as it sounds, is even worse than the book.

 

[planten]

planten;4146842:

Do you really mean that the occurrence of Satanic verses in the New Testament are evident because of the narrative that says Satan failed.

Dear planten, I would conclude that you were drunk if it were not your Ramadan

Thanks for saving me for drinking due to ramadhan, I was simply showing some of the satanic effort (in bible) in misguiding jesus. that is exactly what the Quran says that whenever a prophet gets moving, the devil gets after him. The proof of the doings of the devil is in the bible (You may call them the satanic verses, i.e. the words used by the devil could be satanic)

 

[planten]

So we should take the word of a Fiction writer who made up a story? By your logic then I guess we should eat green eggs and ham. Or perhaps there is a park with Dinosaurs wondering it. Dan Brown write a fictional story that was controversial to sell books, and make a movie.
There is no proof to what he says Leonardo Da Vinci was trying to portray.
If you claim that the Da Vinci Code is truth, then I must affairm then that The Book the Satanic Verses is also truth. I have not read it, but I think I will now since it is the Truth of the Quran. It must be, because many of you Muslims wanted to kill the Author to keep the Truth Shrouded. Notice that, no one has tried to Kill Dan Brown, because we know what he wrote is fiction and has no weight to it. If we were so afraid of what he wrote, I think people would really have tried to stop him.

** I did not bring up Da Vinci Code for discussion. You should thank the one who brought the Satanic verses in this discussion. And please do not disown one and support the other**.

 

[planten]

planten;4146842:

Actually, this proves the Bible is true. Yes we see exactly what Satan said. We learn then how Satan tempts. He uses the same temptations through out History. He wanted Jesus to deny his own divinity and bow to Satan.
500 years later he found an Arab man we will call him Mo, he came as an Angel to Mo and told him Jesus was just a prophey and not the son of God. It is the same lies he used in the Desert. He offer Mo virgins, and many wives, he offered Mo power. Mo took it hook line and sinker and wrote the Quran and that is the Birth of Islam and all the death and destruction that came with it.

The same could be said about your Jesu.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

** I did not bring up Da Vinci Code for discussion. You **.

Yes, you did.

** If you are interested, I would refer you to Da Vinci Code which tells that Jesus was married to Mary Magd and he had a son too. Then you may forget about the Satanic Verses !**

And again, you fail to make the distinction in “Satanic Verses” where the Bible records Satan quoting Bible verses, from the Bible whereas he makes up verses for the Quran. Ponder the comparison made between what Our Lord rejected, and what your prophet accepted, the former exposing the devil for what he is, the latter not knowing if a demon spoke with him or not.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

The same could be said about your Jesu.

Yes it could be said. That would be called a LIE!

 

[aaronjo]

Quote:
Then you forget the third god, i.e. holy spirit. Why does not the holy spirit say that she

BTW, in one of the Eastern Indian languages, in the Christian Bible, the gender of Holy Spirit is translated as ‘SHE’ by the translators of the Holy Bible. I forgot the name of that langauge. You can confirm with the scholars.

So, those who follow that Holy Bible, to them, the Holy Spirit is actually ‘SHE’ and not ‘HE’. And if you have a discussion with them about theHoly Sopirit, they will oppose you and if you INSIST on ‘HE’ they may call you a BIG LIAR, as you opposed their Holy Bible.

 

[Angelos]

BTW, in one of the Eastern Indian languages, in the Christian Bible, the gender of Holy Spirit is translated as ‘SHE’ by the translators of the Holy Bible. I forgot the name of that langauge. You can confirm with the scholars.

So, those who follow that Holy Bible, to them, the Holy Spirit is actually ‘SHE’ and not ‘HE’. And if you have a discussion with them about theHoly Sopirit, they will oppose you and if you INSIST on ‘HE’ they may call you a BIG LIAR, as you opposed their Holy Bible.

I really wonder why that “Eastern Indian language” insists on ascribing female gender to the Holy Spirit. Could you please ask those people or one of their scholars their reason for doing so? I would also like to know if the difference in gender was a theological or linguistic issue for those “Christians”.

Above all, this supposed usage seems to be peculiar to the native speakers of a certain language, not to a separate Christian group or sect.

 

[planten]

Yes, you did.

And again, you fail to make the distinction in “Satanic Verses” where the Bible records Satan quoting Bible verses, from the Bible whereas he makes up verses for the Quran. Ponder the comparison made between what Our Lord rejected, and what your prophet accepted, the former exposing the devil for what he is, the latter not knowing if a demon spoke with him or not.

yes I did because some one brought in the satanic Verses in discussion. Then I pointed to your Da Vinvi Code. I hope you understand now. If not then go back and see where da Vinci Code is first mentioned by me.

 

[dzheremi]

This doesn’t really mean anything. First of all, WHICH “Eastern Indian” language are we talking about? Second of all, do we know in general how this language deals with gender? It could be that there is no way to express the term “Holy Spirit” using male (grammatical) gender, if the words used do not have parallel male and female forms. There is often conflict between “natural” or expected gender and grammatical gender in the world’s languages (Spanish “una cebra”, even if we’re talking about a MALE zebra, Russian время “time” is NEUTER, not feminine, despite the female gender ending).

We really have to know what language we’re dealing with before we can make assumptions about what a particular form or the lack thereof means. I’m guessing it’s a product of the grammatical gender assignment of whatever language you’re talking about, and doesn’t mean anything at all about the actual gender of the Holy Spirit.

Of course, even if this were a conscious decision of the translators of the Bible into that language, what would that prove? Basically nothing beyond the fact that a certain group of people chose to translate it that way. It wouldn’t change the orthodox teaching on this subject.

 

[KenEOTE]

KenEOTE;4147539:

The same could be said about your Jesu.

How could the same be said of Jesus. Satan appeared to Jesus and tempted him and Jesus knew exactly who he was and rebuked him. Jesus then went on to cast out other demons (a house divided can not stand) He cured illness, he performed many miracles, to the Glory of God. He’s disciples performed many miracles and cast out demons in Jesus name. How man miracles did Mohammad perform, how many demons did he cast out?
The prophets of the Bible, all performed miracles in the name of God. Fire from Heaven, the plagues of Egypt, healing of the sick, raising the dead, and providing food for the hungry. All of these miracles brought honor and Glory to God. One of the signs of a true prophet is that he will have signs and wonders from God.
I know that Islam dismisses the idea of Miracles, the reason is that Mohammad never performed any. That also made it easy so that you don’t have any true proof that Mohammad was who he says he was other than his word.
Perhaps I will declare myself a prophet and say an angel told me what to write. You can not prove it didn’t happen. Maybe It did maybe it didn’t. Your best bet is to look at the fruit in my life and my followers. Am I willing to kill to keep my message going or am I willing to die before I deny the message I have been giving?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

How man miracles did Mohammad perform, how many demons did he cast out?

miracles were performed by the will of God .

Jesus (p) had no power to perform any miracle by his own. Read ur bible again , u will see once Jesus (p) failed to perform any miracle.

I know that Islam dismisses the idea of Miracles,

nuh. who told u so ?

the reason is that Mohammad never performed any.

his greatest miracle is he was blessed with holy Quran. Besides that , he performed many but we don’t think because of performing miracles he was son of God or God himself.

some more miracles :

Splitting of the Moon -

“The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder”

[Qur’an 54:1]

Narrated Abdullah:

The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the Prophet, and it became two parts.

The Prophet said, Witness, witness (this miracle)."

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 388:

people asked the Prophet to did that but even after seeing it by their own eyes , they refused the truth .

**If they see a Sign they turn away, **

saying ‘There is no end to this witchcraft!’

They have denied the truth and followed their whims and desires, but everything has its time.

(Surat al-Qamar: 2-3)

‘Our eyesight is befuddled! Or rather we have been put under a spell!’ (Surat al-Hijr: 15

another miracle : The Prophet’s Night Journey to Jerusalem (Arabic: Israa) and Ascent to the Heavens (Arabic: Miraj)

more & more & more are there . How many u want to know ?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I really wonder why that “Eastern Indian language” insists on ascribing female gender to the Holy Spirit. Could you please ask those people or one of their scholars their reason for doing so? I would also like to know if the difference in gender was a theological or linguistic issue for those “Christians”.

Above all, this supposed usage seems to be peculiar to the native speakers of a certain language, not to a separate Christian group or sect.

As we know. many Muslims can’t make the distinction.

In Syriac “she” is used at times, because of the grammatical gender, and Greek “it” because of the grammatical gender. It doesnt’ seem to have influenced there theology any.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

yes I did because some one brought in the satanic Verses in discussion. Then I pointed to your Da Vinvi Code.
MY Da Vinci Code?

I have nothing to do with the Da Vinci Code, except having read it and seen it in order to refute it.

I hope you understand now. If not then go back and see where da Vinci Code is first mentioned by me.

I did. Checking my facts is a habit of mine.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

This doesn’t really mean anything. First of all, WHICH “Eastern Indian” language are we talking about? Second of all, do we know in general how this language deals with gender? It could be that there is no way to express the term “Holy Spirit” using male (grammatical) gender, if the words used do not have parallel male and female forms. There is often conflict between “natural” or expected gender and grammatical gender in the world’s languages (Spanish “una cebra”, even if we’re talking about a MALE zebra, Russian время “time” is NEUTER, not feminine, despite the female gender ending).

We really have to know what language we’re dealing with before we can make assumptions about what a particular form or the lack thereof means. I’m guessing it’s a product of the grammatical gender assignment of whatever language you’re talking about, and doesn’t mean anything at all about the actual gender of the Holy Spirit.

Of course, even if this were a conscious decision of the translators of the Bible into that language, what would that prove? Basically nothing beyond the fact that a certain group of people chose to translate it that way. It wouldn’t change the orthodox teaching on this subject.

Since araanjo’s book is not translated (which ever one he is claiming ) he wouldn’t know that.

 

[inJESUS]

Salaam/peace

miracles were performed by the will of God .

Jesus (p) had no power to perform any miracle by his own. Read ur bible again , u will see once Jesus (p) failed to perform any miracle.

nuh. who told u so ?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Salaam/peace

miracles were performed by the will of God .

Jesus (p) had no power to perform any miracle by his own. Read ur bible again , u will see once Jesus (p) failed to perform any miracle.

I don’t know how any one who has read the Gospels can make this claim.

nuh. who told u so ?

The claim that no miracles occur, the artificial distinction without a difference between mu’jazat and karamat.

his greatest miracle is he was blessed with holy Quran.

And what was so miraclous about it?

Besides that , he performed many but we don’t think because of performing miracles he was son of God or God himself.

The claims of the Muslims sources are conflicted on this.

some more miracles :

Splitting of the Moon -

“The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder”

[Qur’an 54:1]

Seems pretty whole now. Who fixed it?

Narrated Abdullah:

The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the Prophet, and it became two parts.

The Prophet said, Witness, witness (this miracle)."

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 388:

people asked the Prophet to did that but even after seeing it by their own eyes , they refused the truth .

**If they see a Sign they turn away, **

saying ‘There is no end to this witchcraft!’

They have denied the truth and followed their whims and desires, but everything has its time.

(Surat al-Qamar: 2-3)

‘Our eyesight is befuddled! Or rather we have been put under a spell!’ (Surat al-Hijr: 15

The reason why the Fathers don’t put emphasis on miracles, and Christ tells those to whom he does miracles not to divulge it.

another miracle : The Prophet’s Night Journey to Jerusalem (Arabic: Israa) and Ascent to the Heavens (Arabic: Miraj)

The earliest Muslim sources (e.g. Ibn Ishaq) say it was a dream.

more & more & more are there . How many u want to know ?

Just one true one.

 

[inJESUS]

The earliest Muslim sources (e.g. Ibn Ishaq) say it was a dream.
.

if i recall well, he was sleeping next to Aisha. In all cases, who witnessed it if Aisha herself felt nothing?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

I don’t know how any one who has read the Gospels can make this claim.

I read Bible long ago . I remember Jesus (p) cursed a tree because there was no fruit for him .

In an area , people were surprised because Jesus (p) could not do there anything .

Jesus (p) also said something like that I can not do anything of my own . He also said :

My Father is greater than I & “My father is greater than all.”

And what was so miraclous about it?

many

It is only holy book in the earth that is in its original form .
We read the same Quran that was recited by the last messenger of God.

Praise to God only.

Quran has more than 6 thousands verses . it’s a miracle that even non Arabs can memorised the whole Quran even without understanding the language .

I read that not even any single Pope ever memorised holy Bible .

Seems pretty whole now. Who fixed it?

God Almighty Of Course .

Neihter Jesus (p) nor Muhammed (p) had any power to divide or fixed moon

Just one true one

best of the miracles is mentioned already

 

[dzheremi]

Quran has more than 6 thousands verses . it’s a miracle that even non Arabs can memorised the whole Quran even without understanding the language .

Is that really such a miracle? The majority of Muslims are not Arabs, yet they memorize the Quran as part of their Islamic education. It is not a miracle to memorize so much. People in other parts of the world where the education is not religious memorize other things. I once had a friend who memorized Pi to something like 2,600 places. Does this mean the arrangement of Pi is somehow a divine miracle?

I read that not even any single Pope ever memorised holy Bible .

I would not be suprised at this, since the Bible is much longer and more complex than the Quran. Besides, we prefer to have Popes who provide a correct interpretation of the scripture and tradition than simply memorize it. Memory is not the same as devotion. I memorized the multiplication tables as a child, but I did not dedicate my life and eternal soul to them. We have a Pope who rightly guides the faithful, that is all we need. Maybe if many Muslims and their leaders spent as much time developing their spirituality as they do simply memorizing the letter of the law, Islam wouldn’t be plagued with a brutal legalism that overshadows its good in so many cases.