Muslim micracle - Imam Ali saves Christian Bishop

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famdigy: America is not the Middle East. There you can fabricate stories to fit your particular idea, regardless of how untrue it is. You continue to dodge the central issues of this discussion. 1) Give us verifiable proof of this supposed priest’s identity. 2) Post a photograph taken in a public place of a drawing of Mohammed.
 
famdigy said:
The report says Father Thamiri addressed his mother in Syriac, i’m inclined to believe he is either a former member of the Syriac Orthodox Church or the Syriac Catholic Church. Although there is no mention of him being catholic in the report.
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Definately not as he’d appear in the site Gottle showed.

Father Thamir Nasrani, when googled, only appears on a single website, the ‘‘shianewspaper’’ website. Thats it. One would think that a high ranking member of any Orthodox Church would have at least one article about him on an Orthodox website, or a news site. I also searched for images and news articles about him-nothing.

Now time to show my own ignorance. Wouldn’t a bishop of an Eastern Church go by something other than father? Don’t they use the title ‘‘Mar’’? In English surely his title would have been ‘‘Bishop Thamir Nasrani’’?

Also, I’m not 100% sure but isn’t ‘‘Nasrani’’ An Indian surname, albeit one of Syriac extraction?
 
josie_L said:
The same Alberto Rivera who inspired the Jack Chick tracks. I have heard of him, what a scam artist. I believe his ministry is still around, continued through his wife/widow.
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That’s him :eek: - maybe brother Jack has some Muslim readers or imitators 🙂​

 
famdigy said:
Not necessarily chrisse, you’d be surprised at people’s ancestry through intermarriage and migration patterns.

Although the prophet of Islam was an arab, we have people from India and Persia who claim to be descendants of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH & HF) this is to be expected as the prophet’s family migrated from Arabia to persia and then to the Indian subcontinent. Father Thamir’s ancestry is likely not very different.
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So his claim is that his forefathers wrote the qur’an? If so, okay then. I’m not sure I’m convinced by the proof of ancestry used though.

But if his claim is that his forefathers were involved in writing the Bible, then absolutely no way do I accept that.
 
famdigy said:
The report says Father Thamiri addressed his mother in Syriac, i’m inclined to believe he is either a former member of the Syriac Orthodox Church or the Syriac Catholic Church. Although there is no mention of him being catholic in the report.
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Thanks 🙂 If he’s not Catholic, his conversion would be that bit less relevant to Catholicism. :cool: Is there any evidence that he belongs to either Church ? The report so far stands on its own; & so far, it is not clear what there is - apart from the report itself - to encourage belief in it; and there is a bit of counter-evidence: a bishop in a Church in communion with Rome would be likely to be mentioned on a site such as www.catholic-hierarchy.org​

Those questions abouut his ordination, etc., still need answering…
 
famdigy said:
“If I show you some pictures, will you be able to recognize him?” I said, “Of course, as long as he is one among them”. Mr. Naseer brought some pictures and asked me to have a look at them. While browsing through the pictures one by one, I exclaimed, “Oh my God, this is him!” He asked me, “Are you sure?” I said “Yes, this is him. Please tell me who this person is?” He replied that this was Imam Ali, peace be upon him!
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:dts:Which proves that the whole story is a fabrication is the prohibition of pictures in Islam, at Muhammed’s time no one could keep pictures of Muhammed or his caliphs or any other type of pictures:

- Gabriel does not enter a house which contains a picture.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 450:
  • "Once Gabriel promised the Prophet (that he would visit him, but Gabriel did not come) and later on he said, “We, angels, do not enter a house which contains a picture or a dog.” *
** - Angels do not enter a house which has a picture.**
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 448:
  • "I heard Allah’s Apostle saying; “Angels (of Mercy) do not enter a house wherein there is a dog or a picture of a living creature (a human being or an animal).” *
 
Now time to show my own ignorance. Wouldn’t a bishop of an Eastern Church go by something other than father? Don’t they use the title ‘‘Mar’’? In English surely his title would have been ‘‘Bishop Thamir Nasrani’’?

“Mar” is generally used by the Syrian and Assyro-Chaldean Churches for bishops.

Melkites and Orthodox would use the word “Sayedna”–“Master”.

But no church would call a bishop “father”.
 
LDNCatholic said:
Also, I’m not 100% sure but isn’t ‘‘Nasrani’’ An Indian surname, albeit one of Syriac extraction?
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‘Nasrani’ is an Arabic word for people coming from a Christian culture. I think it’s derived from the Syriac for ‘Nazareth’.
 
iKnighty said:
‘Nasrani’ is an Arabic word for people coming from a Christian culture. I think it’s derived from the Syriac for ‘Nazareth’.
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Thank you. I was aware of ‘‘Nazarene Christians’’ who are Indians who refer to themselves as Nasrani, which you are right does derive from Nazareth.
 
dixibehr said:
Now time to show my own ignorance. Wouldn’t a bishop of an Eastern Church go by something other than father? Don’t they use the title ‘‘Mar’’? In English surely his title would have been ‘‘Bishop Thamir Nasrani’’?

“Mar” is generally used by the Syrian and Assyro-Chaldean Churches for bishops.

Melkites and Orthodox would use the word “Sayedna”–“Master”.

But no church would call a bishop “father”.
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So it is very likely that had this bishop ever existed he would have been addressed as Mar Thamir Nasrani.

famdigy can you provide any documentation detailing this increasingly fictitious sounding bishop?
 
Sam_777 said:
:dts:Which proves that the whole story is a fabrication is the prohibition of pictures in Islam, at Muhammed’s time no one could keep pictures of Muhammed or his caliphs or any other type of pictures:

- Gabriel does not enter a house which contains a picture.
** - Angels do not enter a house which has a picture.**
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Dear SAM, you make the same mistakes most non-muslims make when debating with the Shia, you use Sunni Hadiths to prove a point against us, the problem is that we don’t rely on or consider Bukhari to be an authoritative source of islamic knowledge for us, that is because to us he is a member of the false Islam. We have our own collection of hadiths, and in our theology it is permissible to keep pictures. I hope this clarifies the issue.
 
LDNCatholic said:
So it is very likely that had this bishop ever existed he would have been addressed as Mar Thamir Nasrani.

famdigy can you provide any documentation detailing this increasingly fictitious sounding bishop?
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Actually, In the arabic language even the pope is called by Father, they would say “al-baba” or “baba”.

This story first appeared around the month of Muharram in 2007 in Arabic, the shianewspaper translated the story into english. Below is the original story in arabic annabaa.org/ashura/1428/107.htm

there is no mention of “father” in the original story, the word was added by the translator in the english version of the story.

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Personally this is no surprise to me as miracles of the Prophet’s family (PBUH & HF) happen all the time and are too numerous. The prophet (PBUH&HF) himself said:

“No doubt Allah has specified my son Hussain with three : Imams from his progeny, healing in his earth, and fulfillment of prayers under his dome.”

This story of Father Thamir also reinforces our belief that the holy Imams from the Prophet’s family (PBUH&HF) are not for Muslims only, they are for the whole humanity, whether they are Christian, Jewish, Hindu, or any religion.
 
famdigy said:
Actually, In the arabic language even the pope is called by Father, they would say “al-baba” or “baba”.
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Nope. You won’t get away with that seeing as the Pope’s title actually means ‘‘Father’’. Bishop does not. As pointed out before the correct title for a Syriac Bishop would be ‘‘Mar’’.
 
  1. Right, I will check wit my Assyrian and Chaldean Christian friends from Iraq, one of whom is a seminarian. If this story has any veracity they will know about it.
 
The story makes no sense.

There is no independent source of the same story, and other than the fact that he calls himself a Bishop, there is no information about him such as of which place was he the Bishop of.

As someone else pointed out-he claims to have ancestors who were authors of the Bible which is…untrue.

The biggest problem I have with this article is that he is wearing a crucifix when he is visiting the shia site and planning to convert. It makes no sense for him to continue being called Bishop and wear a crucifix (a major Christian symbol that symbolizes as event Shia’s do not believe in) if he no longer believes in Christianity. Also he would have been removed from the position of Bishop if he intended to convert. The pictures seems staged 🤷
 
katy_kt said:
As someone else pointed out-he claims to have ancestors who were authors of the Bible which is…untrue.
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how do you know it is untrue, have you met the authors of the bible, or do you have a record of where their descendants live?
 
famdigy said:
how do you know it is untrue, have you met the authors of the bible, or do you have a record of where their descendants live?
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Do you know who the authors of the Bible are? It makes it sound as though there is only one author of the Bible, when in fact there are 47 books, most written by different individuals.

The same questions can be asked back to that ‘Bishop’, author of which book of the Bible- an OT book or a NT book? Is his ancester David, Moses, Isaiah, Solomon, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul…there are many authors of the Bible. And where is the proof? It sounds like something from the Da Vinci code, someone claiming to be the descendant of Jesus
 
The man claimed he will make his conversion public on tv and satellite. Did it happen? i googled his name even in Arabic google and found nothing which is rather impossible if the whole thing were true.
 
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