Muslim or Jew?

[LutheranDK]

The Jews were responsible IN THAT TIME. Come on people, face it and stop trying to use excuse after excuse for Christ’s death…geez…

Well, not quite accurate:
The Jewish leaders, and the mob they had assembled in front of Pilate’s palace, was responsible.

But we, however, know that in the end - it was not just the Jewish leaders who were responsible for Christ’s death. It was you and I…

 

[LutheranDK]

**Jesus Christ said “THE ONE WHO HAS HANDED ME OVER TO YOU HAS CAUSED THE GREATER SIN.” **

“The one” - singular! Aimed at either the High Priest, or Judas. There’s nothing in the text to suggest collective blame here.
OneTrueCathApos;4717606:

You my friend are in total denial of the Gospels, and you are calling the Apostles liars. It is written in the Four Gospels that the Jews were in fact the cause of Christ’s death. If you are learned in your Gospels, you will see that Pilate DID NOT want to condemn Christ but was in fact intimidated by the Jews hatred of Him.

Whether he wanted to or not is irrelevant. He did, while he could have chosen not to.

I do not hold anyone today responsible for this, but 2,000 years ago the Jews WERE responsible. To deny this is to deny the Gospels of Christ.

No, the Jewish leadership, and the mob they had assembled, were partially responsible. Not the Jewish people as a whole.

Why are people so afraid to tell the truth? I am in no way an anti-semite because of the truth, it is what it is.

But what you call “the truth” (that the Jewish people was responsible for the death of Christ) is not true. That’s the problem.

 

[LutheranDK]

No muslim has proven the Bible was corrupted - only an illiterate pagan says that stuff and he never read the Bible.

On a sidenote: Most mainstream islamic scholars would also deny that the Gospels have been corrupted, because that would, indeed leave islam with a teodicé-problem:
How can God allow humans to corrupt His words? (and the Gospels ARE described as God’s word - a revalation to mankind)

The most common view among islamic scholars, therefore, is that it is not the Gospels that have been corrupted, but the Christians who’ve misunderstood them.

Funny thing is: The one thing that ALL Christians agree upon is the divinity of Christ, because it is unmistakable in the Bible.

So islamic scholars have some serious explaining to do

 

[MrIsla]

personally, i choice israel, we are all jewish technically, we share idealogically similarities. and as stated earlier, islam and christianity are rather polar opposite. As people of christ we should not give into temptation. if the jews wished to betray them, thats fine, even though god predicted this, they can choice to do that. and as far as islam concerns, the only plus would be the huge majority. but yes, definetly judaism. btw, we must not forget that it was 10 years ago that palestine attacked intially. i will also say most of the followers of jesus were jews. so we should also not hold grudges like our jewish neighbours have!! we should all unite under jesus

 

[ChristIsLord]

personally, i choice israel, we are all jewish technically, we share idealogically similarities. and as stated earlier, islam and christianity are rather polar opposite.

how is christianity and judaism less “polar opposite” than islam and christianity? in fact i find islam has more in common with christianity than judaism. islam at least believes in mary’s virginity, jesus miraculous birth, jesus as a prophet, jesus performing miracles, judgment day etc… judaism portrays jesus as a sorcerer and worse, and mary as well… i won’t say it.

i am just confused as to how judaism is less of a “polar opposite” than islam?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious , Ever Merciful

Salaam/ Peace,

… islam at least believes in mary’s virginity, jesus miraculous birth, jesus as a prophet,

Muslims believe Jesus (p) as a newborn baby uttered that he is a servant of God , thus proved to people that he is a miracle baby & defended her innocent mother. Not even Christians believe in this miracle.

I always find it amazing that after showing so much respect to Mother Mary & Jesus ( peace be upon them) , Christians are not satisfied with Muslims . It’s ok if they believe regarding OT , they have to oppose descedents of Ismail (p) always & support Jews but why our belief is not enough to calm them down ? We don’t worship Muhammed (p) , we can’t worhip Jesus (p) either but we do respect Jesus & Mother Mary (pbut) & God Willing will do that till the Judgment Day.

 

[Lev23]

Time for you to mature in your faith. I suggest taking a bible class in your local parish, if they offer one.

If God preserves a remnant of the nation of Israel today, which he does in the Church, the Jews(Israel) are still God’s people. See Romans 9,10, 11.

Greater Israel has been hardened so that the gentiles may come in, the wild shoots can be grafted into the promises given to Israel. St.Paul teaches that the Gentiles in the Church should boast over the broken branches of Israel, because if God did not spare the broken branches, he will not spare them either(Romans 11). Israel is now disobedient, like the gentiles, which means that God may show mercy to them all.

Also, not “all” gentiles believe in Christ.

You keep focusing on the Jews in Jerusalem that had to do with Jesus crucifixtion. Why don’t you also show the same focus of the hundred’s of Jews in Jerusalem that shouted-“Hosanna-blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord”. The next time your at a Palm Sunday Mass, and you are holding your palm branch, look around at everyone else doing the same. You are recreating what Jews did for our Lord some 2000 years ago!!!

My, My, I left out the word “NOT” in one sentence. It should read like this-
St.Paul teaches that the Gentiles in the Church should **not **boast over the broken branches of Israel,…

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Well, not quite accurate:
The Jewish leaders, and the mob they had assembled in front of Pilate’s palace, was responsible.

But we, however, know that in the end - it was not just the Jewish leaders who were responsible for Christ’s death. It was you and I…

You need to reread St. John’s Gospel. For you are in total denial of what really happened.

 

[LutheranDK]

You need to reread St. John’s Gospel. For you are in total denial of what really happened.

Listen, pal, I’ve read that gospel dozens of times, and also partly in the original Greek! I know what happened. It’s you, who seem to have some kind of anti-semetic agenda a la 1500, who needs to be educated.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Listen, pal, I’ve read that gospel dozens of times, and also partly in the original Greek! I know what happened. It’s you, who seem to have some kind of anti-semetic agenda a la 1500, who needs to be educated.

When one doessn’t get it, they are called an anti-semite. Were the Apostles also antisemites for telling the truth?

 

[LutheranDK]

When one doessn’t get it, they are called an anti-semite. Were the Apostles also antisemites for telling the truth?

The Apostles never claimed that the entire Jewish people was directly responsible for the Crucifixion. They were Jews themselves!

The Apostles pointed the fingers where it belonged, and then stopped doing the blame game and got down to the business of telling people to repent and believe.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

The Apostles never claimed that the entire Jewish people was directly responsible for the Crucifixion. They were Jews themselves!

The Apostles pointed the fingers where it belonged, and then stopped doing the blame game and got down to the business of telling people to repent and believe.

WRONG. In St. John’s Gospel, he keeps repeating “FOR FEAR OF THE JEWS” Note the “s” after the word Jew. He also claims as do the others, that the Jews killed Christ as does St. Paul also states this. Are they now anti-semites?

 

[LutheranDK]

WRONG. In St. John’s Gospel, he keeps repeating “FOR FEAR OF THE JEWS” Note the “s” after the word Jew. He also claims as do the others, that the Jews killed Christ as does St. Paul also states this. Are they now anti-semites?

WRONG - and your superficial use of Scripture is downright laughable.

1: Note how John uses the word “Jews” throughout the gospel. He does not ordinarily use it to designate the entirety of the Jewish people. It is used to refer to the Jewish leaders.
One needs to look not only to what the basic meaning of the word is, but also HOW the author uses it.

2: Where, apart from John, is the word “Jews” used in the same way, and what is the context of it? (what follows immediately before and after?)

3: Paul is the LAST one should lean on to justify bigotry and hatred against the Jews, past or present. And if you had read Paul’s letters more than superficially, you’d know this.

Finally: As has been stated, YOU AND I caused Christ to give up His life.
Are you saying that someone TOOK Jesus’ life against His will, and the will of the Father? Because THERE, you can talk about contradicting the Gospels. John makes it abundantly clear that Jesus GAVE UP His life - He was not deprived of it against His will.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

WRONG - and your superficial use of Scripture is downright laughable.

1: Note how John uses the word “Jews” throughout the gospel. He does not ordinarily use it to designate the entirety of the Jewish people. It is used to refer to the Jewish leaders.
One needs to look not only to what the basic meaning of the word is, but also HOW the author uses it.

2: Where, apart from John, is the word “Jews” used in the same way, and what is the context of it? (what follows immediately before and after?)

3: Paul is the LAST one should lean on to justify bigotry and hatred against the Jews, past or present. And if you had read Paul’s letters more than superficially, you’d know this.

Finally: As has been stated, YOU AND I caused Christ to give up His life.
Are you saying that someone TOOK Jesus’ life against His will, and the will of the Father? Because THERE, you can talk about contradicting the Gospels. John makes it abundantly clear that Jesus GAVE UP His life - He was not deprived of it against His will.

**John 5:18:
For this reason THE JEWS tried all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath but He also called God His own Father, making Himself equal to God.

John 7:1:
Because THE JEWS were trying to kill him.

John 7:13:
Still NOONE spoke openly about Him because they were afraid of THE JEWS.

John 10:31:
THE JEWS again picked up rocks to stone Him.

John 18:35:
Your own nation AND the chief priests handed you over to me

John 19:12
Pilate TRIED TO RELEASE HIM but THE JEWS cried out “If you release Him, you are no friend of Caesar”

John 19:38
For fear of THE JEWS

Acts 4:10
Then all of the PEOPLE OF ISRAEL will know that it was in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazorean WHOM YOU CRUCIFIED

Shall I go on?**

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

The only fool here is you and your denial of the Gospels.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

That’s because I would join them today in the fight, NOT the days back then…get it?

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

**I beg your pardon? You owe me an apology for saying I would betray my Lord and Savior. But it’s ok for you to say you support Israel but are not entirely uncritical of them? **

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Well, you are in for a rude awakening my friend. One day you will HAVE to choose.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Hitler invaded countries didn’t he and no one thought he could…Muslims are killing in other countries…be prepared.

 

[LutheranDK]

**John 5:18:
For this reason THE JEWS tried all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath but He also called God His own Father, making Himself equal to God.

John 7:1:
Because THE JEWS were trying to kill him.

John 7:13:
Still NOONE spoke openly about Him because they were afraid of THE JEWS.

John 10:31:
THE JEWS again picked up rocks to stone Him.

John 18:35:
Your own nation AND the chief priests handed you over to me

John 19:12
Pilate TRIED TO RELEASE HIM but THE JEWS cried out “If you release Him, you are no friend of Caesar”

John 19:38
For fear of THE JEWS

Acts 4:10
Then all of the PEOPLE OF ISRAEL will know that it was in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazorean WHOM YOU CRUCIFIED

Shall I go on?**

As has been said: Please don’t. You’re embarassing yourself, and displaying your ignorance for all to see…

1: I already explained to you that John uses the word “Jews” of the Jewish leaders, not the entirety of the Jewish people. You don’t need a theologian, however, to waste his time telling you this - it is clear from the text!!

2: I asked you to find passages outside of John that use the word “Jews” in the same way.
The only passage OUTSIDE of John you could find has nothing to do with this meaning at all! Peter is proclaiming that the fact that the paralyzed man is now healed came to pass by the power of the name of Christ, and this shall be made known to all of the People.
Now, notice to whom Peter speaks: Is it to the entirety of the Jewish people? NO! Peter and John was brought before the Jewish leaders, and it is to THEM he was speaking.

If you want to try to use the Scriptures, please do so correctly…