Muslim or Jew?

[cthulhubryan]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

Please post the verse . If really Bible says so , then I won’t blame Jews anymore to kill 15 kids daily .

Genesis 16:11-12
The angel of the LORD also said to her:
"You are now with child
and you will have a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
for the LORD has heard of your misery.

He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers."

Also, the Israelis do not kill 15 children a day. Hamas attacks Israel and hides behing children everyday.

 

[R_not]

Genesis 16:11-12
The angel of the LORD also said to her:
"You are now with child
and you will have a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
for the LORD has heard of your misery.

He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers."

Also, the Israelis do not kill 15 children a day. Hamas attacks Israel and hides behing children everyday.

Is sounds like she needs to read this article, and quote from it - since I know muslim woman doesn’t bother to read the websites of others.

The anti-American chatter on the internet is as bad as it was leading up to 9/11 according to this article: 5 Minutes to Midnight

Here we have a ‘religion’ in the middle of starting wars all around this globe and it has been going on at an increased rate starting in the 20th century. Since 9/11 it has sped up even more so.

Here is a quote about the atrocities on non-muslims and we only hear from the ‘peaceful’ ones when the violent ones are attacked back!

Mumbai Last November, a handful of terrorists came into Mumbai by stealth, and within hours brought a city of 18 million to its knees. They attacked ten symbolic sites favored by tourists, murdered some 200 people, and left a wake of indescribable destruction, shattering thousands of lives in their wake.

They singled out American, British, and Jewish targets, and ordered the terrorists to “kill to their last breath”. Many of their victims were savagely tortured before being murdered. So brutal was the torture that experienced doctors who later examined the bodies were in shock and could not find the words to even speak about it.

Gaza In Gaza, Hamas brought a different kind of terror into the news. Hamas fights her enemies with cowardice and unspeakable cruelty. While terrorists have been given free reign to shell civilians living in southern Israeli towns, they hide behind the women and children of Gaza, drawing Israeli fire to its rocket launchers which are placed deep in densely populated areas, putting their own people at mortal risk.

During the last two years, nearly 6,000 rockets were fired from Gaza, aimed at schools and homes, mostly in the little town of Sderot, which has taken the brunt of the ceaseless barrage. Israel finally responded with a mighty attack to silence the rockets that had plagued its citizens for the last eight years, and while the number of rockets has been reduced, they did not stop, continuing to terrorize the people of southern Israel.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

… his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,

ok , now I understand . God commands Jews & Christians to hate Ismail (p) & his descendents. So , we must not blame Jews & Christians to hate Muslims.

.

the Israelis do not kill 15 children a day…

that’s too bad. They are disobeying God. They must kill each Muslim kid according to their holy book.

 

[R_not]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

ok , now I understand . God commands Jews & Christians to hate Ismail (p) & his descendents. So , we must not blame Jews & Christians to hate Muslims.

.

that’s too bad. They are disobeying God. They must kill each Muslim kid according to their holy book.

I didn’t read that at all in that passage. I read that “…and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers.”

Do you think that his brothers should just lay back and keep accepting the violence that came from him? And if you do, why? Or is it because you accept violence against yourself by the men that own you and so you think everyone should do the same?

I would really like to know the reasoning behind your complaint.

 

[Valke2]

God blesses both Isaac and Ishmael.
I would contend that there is nothing to suggest that all arabs are descendants of Ishmael. Just Ishmaelites.

But the sooner we get away from scriptual support for who belongs where, the better.

 

[Sam_777]

I would contend that there is nothing to suggest that all arabs are descendants of Ishmael.

Yes not all Arabs are from Ishmael, remember that Shem the son of Noah had 5 children.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

If I had to pick a side, I would choose the Jews, but then in the very last minute I would switch teams and betray them just like how they betrayed our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

j/k I would pick no side, these are some very sensitive questions you guys are asking.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Why is the fact that the Jews betrayed Christ not in YOUR Gospel? Because it is in fact in ALL four Gospels. What is it you are denying here?

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Some of the Jews? 98% of them were against Christ. That was the past, Jesus will judge them, not I.

 

[greystoke]

Some of the Jews? 98% of them were against Christ. That was the past, Jesus will judge them, not I.

If you think rationally about Jesus’ crucifixion, you might realize that he was killed by the Romans for sedition. The Jews could have stoned him to death for blasphemy without Roman interference.

The fact that he was crucified, lays the blame at the feet of Pilate. The Roman authorities wanted him dead, whatever the claims of the Jewish collaborators.

The washing of hands if very symbolic. The statement: “I am innocent of the blood of this man” and the astounding “Let his blood be upon us and upon our children” do not ring true at all, imo. They are most likely later intrusions, or additions to exhonorate the Romans, and blame the Jews, who would actually have been allowed to stone him for blasphemy. The Jews didn’t have to get the Romans to kill Stephen, for example, or the woman taken in adultery they were about to stone. Thus St. Paul, before Damascus, didn’t conspire to get the Roman authorities to do his dirty work.

Remember that Christians were considered a Jewish sect until Constantine. The latter really worshiped Sol Invictus, the invincible sun. He saw in Jesus, the “solar attributes” of his own favorite god. After Constantine, it was very embarrassing for the state religion to admit that it was Rome that killed the Messiah. The Jews involved were not the general population at all.

People can’t see the “elephant in the room”, because they refuse to read Scripture with any discernment more advanced than that of a babe. Witness the fundamentalists who jump through hoops to avoid the Biblical contradictions. The Bible is undoubtedly inspired by God, and the most wonderful document in all history. But tho’ inspired, the writers and copyists themselves were not infallible.And different sources disagreed in detail, if not in Spirit. If you don’t believe me, read Genesis 1 and 2 which totally contradict each other in detail.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

If you think rationally about Jesus’ crucifixion, you might realize that he was killed by the Romans for sedition. The Jews could have stoned him to death for blasphemy without Roman interference.

The fact that he was crucified, lays the blame at the feet of Pilate. The Roman authorities wanted him dead, whatever the claims of the Jewish collaborators.

The washing of hands if very symbolic. The statement: “I am innocent of the blood of this man” and the astounding “Let his blood be upon us and upon our children” do not ring true at all, imo. They are most likely later intrusions, or additions to exhonorate the Romans, and blame the Jews, who would actually have been allowed to stone him for blasphemy. The Jews didn’t have to get the Romans to kill Stephen, for example, or the woman taken in adultery they were about to stone. Thus St. Paul, before Damascus, didn’t conspire to get the Roman authorities to do his dirty work.

Remember that Christians were considered a Jewish sect until Constantine. The latter really worshiped Sol Invictus, the invincible sun. He saw in Jesus, the “solar attributes” of his own favorite god. After Constantine, it was very embarrassing for the state religion to admit that it was Rome that killed the Messiah. The Jews involved were not the general population at all.

People can’t see the “elephant in the room”, because they refuse to read Scripture with any discernment more advanced than that of a babe. Witness the fundamentalists who jump through hoops to avoid the Biblical contradictions. The Bible is undoubtedly inspired by God, and the most wonderful document in all history. But tho’ inspired, the writers and copyists themselves were not infallible.And different sources disagreed in detail, if not in Spirit. If you don’t believe me, read Genesis 1 and 2 which totally contradict each other in detail.

Pilate said three times “I FIND NO GUILT IN THIS MAN”. He gave the Jews a chance, he asked them either Barrabas or Christ. St. John’s Gospel is all about the Jews killing Christ. He actually states this in the Gospel. Pilate did not want to kill Christ, for in his heart he truly knew He was the Messiah, otherwise he wouldn’t of wrote “JESUS OF NAZARETH, KING OF THE JEWS.” When the Jews tried to dispute this sign that hung over His precious head, Pilate answered “It is what it is”.
Stop sugar coating Christ’s death. I am tired of people here saying no one was responsible for his death, especially not the Jews. I am tired of this. No one else yelled “CRUCIFY HIM” more than the Jews. That’s it.

 

[dzheremi]

OneTrueCathApos, if you are going to claim that it is right to condemn “the Jews” in perpeuity for the crucifixion of Christ, do you then accept the Muslim argument that any and all Christians are “Crusaders”? Your reasoning reminds me a lot of theirs, and I don’t accept it.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

OneTrueCathApos,
…do you then accept the Muslim argument that any and all Christians are “Crusaders”? .

I don’t think Muslims believe all Christians are Crusaders ? Where did u get this info ?

I always find it amazing that though Muslims respect both the Mother Mary & Jesus (pbut) , Christians are not happy with our this belief . But they have no problem with Jewish belief who totally rejected/ still rejecting Jesus (p) & don’t believe in Virgin Mary (p).

In other thread Quran 5:32 , I asked a question : if Christians believe Quran is a work of Satan & that’s the reason Jesus (p) is not mentioned as God there, what about Jewish holy book ? Do Christians think is it also from Satan ?

 

[Jay53]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

In other thread Quran 5:32 , I asked a question : if Christians believe Quran is a work of Satan & that’s the reason Jesus (p) is not mentioned as God there, what about Jewish holy book ? Do Christians think is it also from Satan ?

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

God was not manifested as Jesus at the time of the Jewish holy book. Therefore, He would not been mentioned by name. There are, however, prophecies in the Old Testament that foretell the coming of Jesus as the Messiah.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

God was not manifested as Jesus at the time of the Jewish holy book. Therefore, He would not been mentioned by name. There are, however, prophecies in the Old Testament that foretell the coming of Jesus as the Messiah.

oucch , don’t hurt yourself like this . If Jesus (p) was always there as God , how & why he is not mentioned in Jewish book as God ?
Also , Jews don’t think Jesus (p) fulfilled the prophecies . By any chance , is it possible that like all the bad Mozlems , chosen people are influenced by Satan ?

Jesus (p) will fry both the Muslims & Jews for rejecting him as God or he will forgive the chosen people but burn Muslims in fire forever ?

 

[dzheremi]

I don’t think Muslims believe all Christians are Crusaders ? Where did u get this info ?

From the arguments advanced by violent Jihadists? Duh.

Who do you think the “Crusaders” in all these speeches and documents are? Buddhists?

Muslims often reference the Crusades (as above) as though they were still going on, so for all intents and purposes, this analogy is available whenever they feel it advantageous to “rally the troops”, so to speak. I am not so naive as to think there is any difference between the average Christian and the soldier of a secular country in the minds of jihadists. If there were, we would not see such rhetorical devices employed to begin with.

I always find it amazing that though Muslims respect both the Mother Mary & Jesus (pbut) , Christians are not happy with our this belief

Personally, I don’t care about what you believe regarding Jesus or Mary. I don’t think the Qur’an is an accurate account of ANY religion or people that came before it or existed alongside its prophet, so I don’t see what your belief has to do with anything to anyone who is not Muslim. I have often tried to correct Planten who also holds this kind of thinking. Read it now and understand it forever: The claims of the Qur’an, and hence of Muslims, regarding Jesus and Mary or any other figure of a religion that existed prior to Islam, are NOT reliable to non-Muslims. Hence, whether you love Jesus or Buddha or Shiva or anyone else is not our concern. What we do protest, what we will ALWAYS protest, is your claim that, based on the words of the Qur’an, you follow Jesus and we do not, that you know the “true” Jesus (who is named “Isa”, apparently) and we do not, that you follow an eternally uncorruptable book that we should all just accept at face value because it says so. NO. WAY. EVER.

I will say it again: You love the Jesus and Mary that you know from the Qur’an, but we believe the descriptions of these figures found therein are not true. So believe whatever you want, but don’t be shocked when we refuse to follow you.

But they have no problem with Jewish belief who totally rejected/ still rejecting Jesus (p) & don’t believe in Virgin Mary (p).

What gives you that idea? We absolutely have problems with the Jewish belief - that’s why we’re not Jews! :doh2:

In other thread Quran 5:32 , I asked a question : if Christians believe Quran is a work of Satan & that’s the reason Jesus (p) is not mentioned as God there, what about Jewish holy book ? Do Christians think is it also from Satan ?

No, we do not believe that the Torah is from Satan. Why would we? We understand the linear progression of time in a way that you apparently do not (this is obvious when we consider the Quran’s claim that all past prophets were in fact Muslims…even the patriach of the Jews!). The Jewish holy book, having come before the incarnation, obviously would not have mentioned Jesus by name. This is not a problem. Christianity grew out of heretical Judaism anyway, so why are you trying to disrupt our history in order to prove some point about your book that we’ll never accept? We had our received traditions and our writings centuries before Muhammad. The Qur’an is nothing of any consequence to a Christian, outside of perhaps a personal interest or textual analysis, criticism, and comparison (something which Muslims are DENIED).

 

[R_not]

Pilate said three times “I FIND NO GUILT IN THIS MAN”. He gave the Jews a chance, he asked them either Barrabas or Christ. St. John’s Gospel is all about the Jews killing Christ. He actually states this in the Gospel. Pilate did not want to kill Christ, for in his heart he truly knew He was the Messiah, otherwise he wouldn’t of wrote “JESUS OF NAZARETH, KING OF THE JEWS.” When the Jews tried to dispute this sign that hung over His precious head, Pilate answered “It is what it is”.
Stop sugar coating Christ’s death. I am tired of people here saying no one was responsible for his death, especially not the Jews. I am tired of this. No one else yelled “CRUCIFY HIM” more than the Jews. That’s it.

HEY ALL YOU GUYS - WE KILLED JESUS! Yes, He needed someone to do the deed, but it was a combination of the Romans and the Jews over 2000 years ago who did it. They are not alive today. OUR SINS CAUSED HIS DEATH. And I am ashamed to say that I am a sinner. And anyone who tells me they are not a sinner - well, I won’t believe them. Just like I don’t believe that mohammed was the perfect man. In fact, mohammed is one guy that we should all look to NOT EMULATE!!!

He forgave them - why don’t we?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I think this anti-semitism because the ‘the Jews killed Jesus’ stuff gets really old.

 

[R_not]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

oucch , don’t hurt yourself like this . If Jesus (p) was always there as God , how & why he is not mentioned in Jewish book as God ?
Also , Jews don’t think Jesus (p) fulfilled the prophecies . By any chance , is it possible that like all the bad Mozlems , chosen people are influenced by Satan ?

Jesus (p) will fry both the Muslims & Jews for rejecting him as God or he will forgive the chosen people but burn Muslims in fire forever ?

Why don’t you ask a Jew? And it is a pipe dream that you want the Jews to be led by Satan.

Well, let us look at how the Jews behave and how the muslims behave.

-muslims hate, support killing and their ones who kill kufir whether it be Jew, muslim, Christian or other.
-muslims deceive
-muslims are cruel and in their lands under sharia laws have more human rights abuses than any other

• basically if they want to claim they are ‘Abrahamic’ then they break most of the 10 commandments.

The Jews do not, overall, do that nor command such behavior from their people.

 

[R_not]

No muslim has yet proven that the Bible is corrupt. So, all the assertions by muslims that their koran is legitimate sort of falls short since it is based on mohammed, an illiterate pagan, saying the Bible was corrupted.

he only said that because he knew he screwed up his versions so badly, and he restated them to suit his purposes.

I don’t know why muslims don’t see through mohammed, but they don’t.

That is fine. They can believe what they want but the problem I have with islam is that they are not honest about islam. But, when a ‘prophet’ tells them that deception is ok - that is a problem. A big problem.

It goes against one of the 10 commandments. Well, mohammed broke so many of them - no wonder he had to redefine sin. And the muslims don’t see through that either. Especially the reverts (back to sin) to islam. the ones born to islam probably wouldn’t know that - but the reverts - there is no excuse.

 

[chosen_people]

Pilate said three times “I FIND NO GUILT IN THIS MAN”. He gave the Jews a chance, he asked them either Barrabas or Christ. St. John’s Gospel is all about the Jews killing Christ. He actually states this in the Gospel. Pilate did not want to kill Christ, for in his heart he truly knew He was the Messiah, otherwise he wouldn’t of wrote “JESUS OF NAZARETH, KING OF THE JEWS.” When the Jews tried to dispute this sign that hung over His precious head, Pilate answered “It is what it is”.
Stop sugar coating Christ’s death. I am tired of people here saying no one was responsible for his death, especially not the Jews. I am tired of this. No one else yelled “CRUCIFY HIM” more than the Jews. That’s it.

A sham trial. A Judge bowing to crowd pressure…WHERE THE HECK WAS THE ACLU?