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LutheranDK
Guest
Troll…
You, an unbeliever, has no authority to teach Christians what the Bible says, especially when all you want to do is spin current political events in your favor. You’re beyond mixed-up…
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You, an unbeliever, has no authority to teach Christians what the Bible says, especially when all you want to do is spin current political events in your favor. You’re beyond mixed-up…
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Valke2
Guest
Egypt has no love for Hamas. At least the egyptian government doesn’t
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grampben
Guest
As I understand it, it is only the more extremist middle-eastern governments that support them, Iran I think. However I’m not 100% sure.
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Valke2
Guest
That’s pretty much it. As far as governments go. You also have factions like the Islamic Brotherhood (I think that is what they are called) in Egypt that is pro Hamas.
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chosen_people
Guest
The belief that Jews and Christians can only live in justice under Islamic rule is an integral part of fundamentalist Islamic terror groups (see for instance the Hamas charter)
This discussion could only take place in a place like America where a mother would be willing to send her son to fight for justice for others.
I would like to point out that the I.D.F.(including myself) fought on the side of the Christians in the first Lebanese war.
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dzheremi
Guest
This is the conclusion that I am coming to, unfortunately. And when Christians say that we do not want that because it is incompatible with our values, we are usually reminded of how much we share with Muslims (because Muslims say we do, basically), or how religious minorities in Christian Europe in the middle ages would be lucky to live under Islamic governments, so our whole outlook is skewed to make Muslims seem like they are the only ones who are ever bad.
I say to that what I have said before when the topic of Andalucia was brought up: Why is it that Muslims are so fixated on what happened hundreds of years ago, to the point where they praise the tolerance of their forefathers that they themselves no longer exibit while not recognizing that very tolerance in the secular governments of today that they so loudly decry as the source of all Western decadence and spiritual atrophy?
We say that we don’t want that because we don’t look at the past with rose colored glasses in either case. A lot of messed up things happened in mideval Christian Europe, things that don’t make todays Christians particularly proud, and TODAY Muslims are the ones executing each other and their native minorities for preceived offenses against their religion and their prophet. These things are simultaneously true, just as it is true that while Andalucia was a great example of tolerance for that time period, there were still Christians who were martyred in places like Cordoba and elsewhere for refusing the Islamic version of “peace and justice”.
Can no one who is so fed up with Western encroachment on Muslim lands for what is supposedly “their own good” (to bring democracy, to disarm dangerous regimes, etc) see the irony in saying that Islamic law is good for Christians or Jews? You don’t know what’s good for us. We do.
But no, the Covenant of Omar is better. After all, the “People of the Book” signed it, so obviously it must have been fair…
Sometimes I think we ought to send out a “Common Word” of our own, enumerating all the things that we would like in a social contract with the Muslims. What would it look like, I wonder? And how long before its author would be tortured or murdered for inevitably insulting Islam by not kowtowing to it?
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Sam_777
Guest
hamba2han, I thought you are a “sola scriptura” Muslim, and I always read your posts because you always use references, WHERE is the reference for your allegation.
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Sana
Guest
Hamba. I don’t understand what you are doing on this website, your posts don’t impress anyone, and I find some of them quite intimidating actually.
And on Palestine, putting back Islamic rule of over 1,000 years ago is not going to happen and is not going to solve anything. We (Christians) won’t accept it, the Jews won’t accept it and I don’t even think most Muslims will accept it. Please stop spouting this nonsense, the only reason I can see for you to say these things is if you want to antagonise people, you’re not going to achieve anything else.
And on Palestine, putting back Islamic rule of over 1,000 years ago is not going to happen and is not going to solve anything. We (Christians) won’t accept it, the Jews won’t accept it and I don’t even think most Muslims will accept it. Please stop spouting this nonsense, the only reason I can see for you to say these things is if you want to antagonise people, you’re not going to achieve anything else.
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hamba2han
Guest
I was only summarising the discussion that I have had with Christian posters both in this thread and also in another thread.hamba2han, I thought you are a “sola scriptura” Muslim, and I always read your posts because you always use references, WHERE is the reference for your allegation.
Anyhow, here are the references for my "allegation"against Christians and Jews.
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hamba2han
Guest
If it is the will of the Creator, then it WILL happen regardless of whether His creations accept it or not.
Furthermore, it is just not possible for me to see how any believer could not want to see Palestine ruled by Muslims.
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aldgh
Guest
Are you aware that first of all- the Jews condemned and led to Christ’s death?
Hmmm, do you not consider the Zionism theory religious to the Jews? And the whole continuation of Zionism eg the W.B where security fences, settlements, exclusive roads are still being built where the Jew cant stand the arab?
yours truly
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LutheranDK
Guest
I can tell you right now: We look at the way the rest of the Middle East in run (backwards, dictatorial, oppressive regimes of terror against non-muslims), and say: “Thanks, but no thanks”.
Thank God that islam is not the will of the Creator.
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LDNCatholic
Guest
I may not support Israel but I do not support error either.
It was all of our sins that led to the Crucifixion.
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LutheranDK
Guest
Again, you display stunning ignorance.
1: All Jews were not involved in Christ’s death. We’re talking about the Jewish leaders here - and a mob they worked up.
1,1: Basically, I believe as a Christian that Christ’s death was God’s will, and part of His divine plan. Does the RC church not believe this as well?
2: Zionism is not a religious theory first and foremost. It is a political one, as there are Jews who are not religious, but zionists, Jews who are religious, but not zionists, Christians who are zionists and Christians who are NOT zionists.
Now, there are two variants of zionism: Religious and political
Political zionism is the belief that the Jewish people, as all other peoples of the world, have a right to a homeland, and that since 1947, that homeland is called Israel. (my viewpoint)
Religious zionism is the same, but with the added memento, that the ressurection of the state of Israel is part of God’s unfolding plans.
Those Christians and Jews who are zionists belong to either one of those two.
I feel like I’m casting perls before swine here, but as said: All that’s neccessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
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cthulhubryan
Guest
Therefore we must be on the side of the Jews. Our Savior was a Jew, and we must fight against the forces of Satan.
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trdchubi
Guest
You should also take note of this verse:
*And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him
that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of
the earth be blessed (Genesis 12:3)
*The Importance of Blessing the Jewish People
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ChristIsLord
Guest
neither…
i would only fight to protect my family, i would never fight for this country because i believe it is unrecognizeable from when first concieved. i will teach my children to not fight for this country and i’ll send them to canada if there’s ever a draft.
i wouldn’t fight for jews as they would only wait 40 years then blame me for the war smearing my efforts and my name.
i wouldn’t fight for the muslims because i believe sharia oppresses people horribly, and i wouldn’t want to live under that system.
i would only fight to protect my family, i would never fight for this country because i believe it is unrecognizeable from when first concieved. i will teach my children to not fight for this country and i’ll send them to canada if there’s ever a draft.
i wouldn’t fight for jews as they would only wait 40 years then blame me for the war smearing my efforts and my name.
i wouldn’t fight for the muslims because i believe sharia oppresses people horribly, and i wouldn’t want to live under that system.
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meedo
Guest
agreed
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cthulhubryan
Guest
True, that is another reason to be against the muslims. God did promise that Ishmael and his descendants would be against all men.
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Reuben_J
Guest
How providential that Mohammad chose Ishmael as his ancestor? He could choose to be any self-proclaimed prophet but to be identified with Ishmael after what had been prophesized about Ishmael in the Bible is truly hitting the nail on the head. And that’s what Islam is. Like its forefather it’s a religion against all men and how true it is today. Not only against all men but against each other - how they tear at each other throats all around the world. Not really a nice thing to say but that’s the reality of Islam.
Had Mohammad been more educated and understood the implication of Ishmael he would not want to be associated with him. But I guess he didn’t and thought by associating with Ishmael he could claim to have his root in God’s ancient people. Anyway, apart from pure tradition I don’t think there is any concrete evidence to say that the Arabs of Mohammad’s tribe are descendants of Ishmael. This is all made up things to justify being prophet and receives revelation from God.
But this happened so that the prophecy about Ishmael would come true.
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