Muslim Reaction Proves Pope’s Point

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Shamefully, all too many Muslims have embraced violence in recent decades. Such a reaction to the Pope’s words would not have occurred in the 1960’s.

I can only believe that many Muslims believe that the time has come for worldwide jihad, and they are acting out their beliefs. They believe the West is weak and self absorbed and will not stand up to them.

We are in a war.
 
I believe KathleenElise was referring to the lack of peaceful, faithful Muslims in leadership roles speaking out in a public forum. I myself watch alot of news, read the newspaper everyday, surf the web and never see it happen in my community or any others. That leads one to believe that no one or very few are speaking out.:cool:
On that basis (watching the news, reading the paper, and surfing the vast majority of the web), I’d also be led to believe that most Catholic priests were paedophiles and bishops were desperately doing anything they could to cover it up. Would that be a fair conclusion to reach?

Mike
 
On that basis (watching the news, reading the paper, and surfing the vast majority of the web), I’d also be led to believe that most Catholic priests were paedophiles and bishops were desperately doing anything they could to cover it up. Would that be a fair conclusion to reach?

Mike
No. I would be led to believe that *some *Priests were molestors and some Bishops had that knowledge and did nothing. You can’t lump every Muslim into the fanatic category, however it would help if peaceful Muslims in communities would speak out against the violence & hate. Maybe a peaceful protest or rally? My point is that no one seems to be speaking out. Do you see it in the UK? I don’t see it in the US.
 
No. I would be led to believe that *some *Priests were molestors and some Bishops had that knowledge and did nothing. You can’t lump every Muslim into the fanatic category, however it would help if peaceful Muslims in communities would speak out against the violence & hate. Maybe a peaceful protest or rally? My point is that no one seems to be speaking out. Do you see it in the UK? I don’t see it in the US.
Well, yes, we do see it to some degree here in the UK. Not as much in the media as would be fair, but people calling for restraint and peace are rarely as newsworthy as people shouting and burning things, so… (when was the last time the Pope was headline news for a speech that didn’t have a violent reaction? Exactly my point,)

Remember I have lived in both the USA and the UK in the last 5 years - we do seem to hear more of a moderate Muslim voice here than you do there, even though in many respects the Muslim community in the USA is more moderate than here.

Mike
 
Dunno. Do you? How many Muslims have you spoken to lately?

Mike
My cardiologist, the owner of the Dunkin Donut near us. the people that run the dollar store across the street from where I work, people that come into my store and many others.

Pittsburgh, PA has a large foreign community due to the many internationally known universities here.
 
My cardiologist, the owner of the Dunkin Donut near us. the people that run the dollar store across the street from where I work, people that come into my store and many others.

Pittsburgh, PA has a large foreign community due to the many internationally known universities here.
…and? What do they think? Are they supporting the violence and the calls to kill the Pope?

Mike
 
I must have missed all the occasions when the Catholics in Northern Ireland caught and ‘disciplined’ IRA bombers.

Mike
Stay on track and leave Northern Ireland out of it, and for your information who was imprisoned in the most heavily fortified prison in Europe, ? members of the I.R.A and their loyalists opponents, so I guess they must have been caught. ( The Maze, or Long Kesh as it was once known)

Now back to the title of the thread please !
 
On that basis (watching the news, reading the paper, and surfing the vast majority of the web), I’d also be led to believe that most Catholic priests were paedophiles and bishops were desperately doing anything they could to cover it up. Would that be a fair conclusion to reach?

Mike
Led to believe probably, but it isn’t true ! it’s only a fair conclusion to reach if your easily brainwashed by lies.

Again off-track.
 
Stay on track and leave Northern Ireland out of it,
Why? Because the fact we are telling other groups of people they MUST do things when we wouldn’t do them ourselves in a similar situation is uncomfortable? Hypocritical? Jesus had a few things to say about that sort of thing.
and for your information who was imprisoned in the most heavily fortified prison in Europe, ? members of the I.R.A and their loyalists opponents, so I guess they must have been caught.
I don’t think they were caught by the Catholic community (the RUC had a woefully low number of Catholics, for example), any more than Muslims have handed over Bin Laden to us.

Mike
 
Led to believe probably, but it isn’t true !
Exactly. It illuminates the overused argument ‘well, I haven’t heard the moderate Muslims speak out, so I guess they all agree with the violence’ though, doesn’t it?

Mike
 
The problem, Mike and Richard, is that Palestinians were dancing in the streets, people have been murdered constantly, innocents klilled, children murdered. These actions are not lone extremists, but institutionalized actions. Their schools train them for these missions.

The Koran–the book that is the sole basis of their heresy–approves of dhimmitude, lying to non believers, and war against non believers. Now it seems very disengenuous of you to paint the troublemakers as extremists. Actually, it is those following their book who are doing this and the muslims who are peaceful are the unusual ones.

And don’t throw out extreme fringe Christian groups. No Christian group condones terrorism. The IRA was a secular movement, not a religous one.

Islam however merges forceful (bloody) war with religion and government and terrorism is their means.

You both seem to think that because all humans are in the image of God and have a fallen nature we are all the same and what we believe makes no difference. We have free will. That murdered Nun is a magnificent example of that. This evil comes through in their fruit, so too the good of the foillowers of Christ.

It matters Who you believe in.
 
The problem, Mike and Richard, is that Palestinians were dancing in the streets, people have been murdered constantly, innocents klilled, children murdered.
I find it really difficult to pass judgement on a few (ok, quite a few, but still a few) when we (supposedly Christians and Jews) insist on continuing to do the same to them institutionally, with our governments and our military and our economic systems. We’ve killed an awful lot more of ‘them’, innocents and children, than they have of ‘us’.
These actions are not lone extremists, but institutionalized actions. Their schools train them for these missions.
Then there would be an awful lot more of them going on. The thing that surprises me most about the current wave of terrorism is how little of it there actually is. It’s not like the streets of Belfast in the 70s. Thank God.
The Koran–the book that is the sole basis of their heresy
Err, no it isn’t. They have hadith too.
–approves of dhimmitude, lying to non believers, and war against non believers.
Have you ever read Leviticus or Numbers? Without the prism of the teaching of the Church to tell us what is, and what isn’t, we could be said to ‘approve’ of all the things in there.
Now it seems very disengenuous of you to paint the troublemakers as extremists. Actually, it is those following their book who are doing this and the muslims who are peaceful are the unusual ones.
No doubt therefore you also think the ‘usual’ Christians are also going around stoning unbelievers, avoiding shellfish, hiding women when they have a period, and refusing to wear clothes made out of more than one sort of cloth, and those not doing that are the unusual ones.
And don’t throw out extreme fringe Christian groups. No Christian group condones terrorism. The IRA was a secular movement, not a religous one.
They still went to Church. They said they were Catholic,

I guess the people who’ve blown up abortion clinics did that for secular reasons too :rolleyes:
Islam however merges forceful (bloody) war with religion and government and terrorism is their means.
Some extremist interpretations of Islam, perhaps. If mainstream Islam was like that, the world would be a lot more bloody than it is right now.

You may note that the official position of the Catholic Church, Nostra Aetate, disagrees with you.

The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems
You both seem to think that because all humans are in the image of God and have a fallen nature we are all the same and what we believe makes no difference. We have free will. That murdered Nun is a magnificent example of that. This evil comes through in their fruit, so too the good of the foillowers of Christ.
It matters Who you believe in.
Err, well yes, else I wouldn’t be a Catholic. I am deeply passionate about my faith, and that is part of the reason I follow it closely when it tells me to respect others, and not to prejudge people based on any characteristic.

Mike
 
Their schools train them for these missions.
Their schools? Some madrassahs perhaps, but it is hardly a subject in the public schools of those countries.
It matters Who you believe in.
And we, the Moslems, and the Jews all believe in the one God, even though the Moslems and the Jews have an imperfect understanding of Him.
 
A religion of peace?
IF actions speak louder than words, then there are those who are pretty DEAF right about now.:ehh:
 
So what the pope said was spoken 600 years ago, it is history, and he said it at a college in Germany. Does the Catholic church have people looking for a confrontation in the Muslin colleges:confused: ?

The very thing he said is being proven and that too will become history. I would think Christianity in its entirety would speak out in support of the pope. To busy checking the TV schedule or listening to their sattelite radio I guess.

“And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it”. It looks as if conditions are rapidly becoming right for something to change the world we live in.
 
Keep in mind as you broad brush all Muslims as terrorist, that it was Muslims, that played a major role in foiling the plot to bring chemical bombs on to airplanes just recently. It was also Muslims, who prevented the bombing of the US Embassy in Syria.

It’s easy for us who sit in our comfortable homes and offices, to demand that Muslims living in the Middle East, speak out against the extremist. However, where they live, their words can be deadly to their families and themselves.

Put yourself in their situation before you judge them too harshly!
 
Keep in mind as you broad brush all Muslims as terrorist, that it was Muslims, that played a major role in foiling the plot to bring chemical bombs on to airplanes just recently. It was also Muslims, who prevented the bombing of the US Embassy in Syria.
Good point. Either “all Islam” from Morocco to Egypt to Pakistan to Indonesia wants an all out war with the West or it’s just some Islamist fundamentalist terrorists who have it in for us.

If the former, why would any Moslem country do anything, I mean anything, to help us? It would be to the furtherance of the Greater Glory if the West were to be the victim of every plot that came along. Indeed, isn’t it total folly for America to be trying to help Iraq and Afghanistan if all those people are only waiting for the right moment to join the Great Jihad?
 
Why? Because the fact we are telling other groups of people they MUST do things when we wouldn’t do them ourselves in a similar situation is uncomfortable? Hypocritical? Jesus had a few things to say about that sort of thing.
Actually Catholics did come forward with information, and if found out were shot dead, this place was/is rife with informers.
And for a Catholic to join the RUC was to sign their own death warrant.
Who are you calling a hypocrite ?
And were talking about two completely different things, were talking about a foreign country occupying another, “England”.

Your own so-called security forces colluded with loyalists to have Catholics murdered, suddenly guns and documents went missing from UDR and British Army camps.
Soon to be released is one such statement from Nula O’loan, (police Ombudsman)
According to the N,Ireland secretary it won’t make pretty reading.

( pot pan, black a)**
I don’t think they were caught by the Catholic community (the RUC had a woefully low number of Catholics, for example), any more than Muslims have handed over Bin Laden to us.
As above, Mike if you want to go down the N,Ireland road, I’d prefer you start another thread on it.
 
Actually Catholics did come forward with information, and if found out were shot dead, this place was/is rife with informers.
And you know, for sure, that Muslims are not informing?

Like

cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/07/13/terror–plot.html

or

guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,1843069,00.html

They certainly seem to be trying.
Who are you calling a hypocrite ?
People who speak with such conviction about terrorists and then are happily supporting other terrorists as long as they are fighting for something they agree with. It wasn’t directed at you.
And were talking about two completely different things, were talking about a foreign country occupying another,
Oh. Ok. We’re not occupying any Muslim lands right now, are we? I guess I missed the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, standing by while Israel rained cluster bombs on Lebanon, and the complete non-action about continued settlement and wall-building in the Palestinian occupied territories. (‘Occupied territories’ - it’s a bit of a clue).
Your own so-called security forces colluded with loyalists to have Catholics murdered, suddenly guns and documents went missing from UDR and British Army camps.
Sounds a bit like the CIA in Afghanistan when the commies were bigger enemies than the Muslims. Except the CIA were more obvious about it. Or maybe Nicaragua, or… Both the US and the UK governments are very good at not following the principles they tell other countries they have to follow.
As above, Mike if you want to go down the N,Ireland road, I’d prefer you start another thread on it.
I’ve already done plenty. I just think it is a perfect example of how quick we are to forget the lessons of the past, and instead are doomed to repeat the mistakes. Oh well.

Mike
 
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