Muslim who needs answers???

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I do not believe that I was critical of religious Islam or Muslims who try to do good according to the Golden Rule; my criticism is meant for political Islam. Did you consider that perhaps political Islam should be “harshly” criticized?

When a Christian is critical of the Koran, the usual Muslim response is something like, “You have taken it out of context.”

The most common criticism of Christianity by Muslims has been the Crusades. Even Christians feel guilty about them. Why? No living Christian is responsible for them. Consider only some of what happened before the Crusades … to put them in “context”:

632 AD – Mohammed dies
633 – Mesopotamia falls to Muslim invasion, followed by the entire Persian Empire
635 – Damascus falls
638 – Jerusalem capitulates
643 – Alexandria falls, ending 1,000 years of Hellenic civilization
648-49 – Cyprus falls
653 – Rhodes falls
673 – Constantinople attacked
698 – All of North Africa lost
711 – Spain invaded
717 – Muslims attack Constantinople again; repelled by Emperor Leo the Isaurian
721 – Saragossa falls, Muslims sights on southern France
720 – Narbonne falls.
732 – Bordeaux was stormed and its churches burnt down
732 – Charles Martel and his Frankish army defeat Muslims in October, turning back the Muslim tide
732 – Attacks on France continued
734 – Avignon captured by an Muslim force
743 – Lyons sacked
759 – Arabs driven out of Narbonne.
838 – Marseilles plundered
800 – Muslims incursions into Italy begin, Islands of Ponza and Ischia plundered
813 – Civitavecchia, the port of Rome sacked
826 – Crete falls to Muslim forces
827 – Muslim forces begin to attack Sicily.
837 – Naples repels a Muslim attack
838 – Marseilles taken
840 – Bari falls
842 – Messina captured and Strait of Messina controlled
846 – Muslims squadrons arrived at Ostia, at the Tiber’s mouth, sack Rome and St. Peter’s Basilica
846 – Taranto in Apulia conquered by Muslim forces
849 – Papal forces repel Muslim fleet at the mouth of the Tiber
853-71 – Italian coast from Bari down to Reggio Calabria controlled, Muslims terrorize Southern Italy.
859 – Muslims take control of all Messina
870 – Malta captured by the Muslims.
870 – Bari recaptured from the Muslims by Emperor Louis II
872 – Emperor Louis II defeats a Saracen fleet off Capua
872 – Muslim forces devastate Calabria
878 – Syracuse falls after a nine-month siege
879 – Pope John VIII forced to pay tribute of 25,000 mancuses (AUD$625,000) annually to the Muslims
880 – Byzantine Commanders gain victory over Saracen forces at Naples
881 – Muslims capture fortress near Anzio, plunder surrounding countryside with impunity for forty [40] years.
887 – Muslim armies take Hysela and Amasia, in Asia Minor.
889 – Toulon captured
921 – English pilgrims to Rome crushed to death under rocks rolled down on them by Saracens in the passes of the Alps
902 – Muslim fleets sacked and destroyed Demetrias in Thessaly, Central Greece,
904 – Thessalonica falls to Muslim forces
915 – After three months of blockade, Christian forces victorious against Saracens holed-up in their fortresses north of Naples
934 – Genoa attacked by Muslim forces
935 – Genoa taken
972 – Saracens finally driven from Faxineto
976 – Caliphs of Egypt send fresh Muslim expeditions into southern Italy. Initially the German Emperor Otho II , who had set up his headquarters in Rome, successfully defeated these Saracen forces
977 – Sergius, Archbishop of Damascus, expelled from his See by Muslims
982 – Emperor Otho’s forces ambushed and his army defeated
1003 – Muslims from Spain sack Antibes
1003-09 – Marauding bands of Saracens plunder Italian coast from Pisa to Rome from bases on Sardinia
1005 – Muslims from Spain sack Pisa
1009 – Caliph of Egypt orders destruction of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem, the Tomb of Jesus
1010 – Saracens seize Cosenza in southern Italy.
1015 – All Sardinia falls
1016 – Muslims from Spain again sack Pisa
1017 – Fleets of Pisa and Genoa sail for Sardinia, find Saracens crucifying Christians, drive Saracen leader out. Saracens try to re-take Sardinia until 1050
1020 – Muslims from Spain sack Narbonne
1095 – The First Crusade.

The 463 years that elapsed between Muhammad’s death and the calling of a Crusade to free the Holy Places was not, as Islam apologists would have us believe, a time of “peaceful co-existence” between Muslims and European or Byzantine Christians. Nor was it, for Christians living in Muslim-occupied territories. They enjoyed “peace” only by keeping the lowest possible profile, paying the jizya [head-tax], and accepting non-person status in lands that had been Christian before the Muslim invaders arrived. Conquered peoples converted, lived as dhimmis, or were slain. If the Christian [or Jew] under Islamic rule could no longer pay the jizya, Muslims could resume jihad against him.

These events show that Islam did not spread by Muslim missionaries knocking on non-believer doors. It spread by conquest. As noted above, Mohammed tried the peaceful approach and got only 150 converts in 13 years.

Ref: “The Crusades In Context”
By Dr Paul Stenhouse
answering-islam.org.uk/Green/crusades-stenhouse.htm
Thanks for the chronicle of the rise of Islamic empire and conquest.

Muslim posters here are mild by comparison and their efforts to appear “moderate” are very visible. If you participate in any Islamic/Muslims forums which I had the opportunity to experience especially in their apologetic, you will hear more candid Muslim thought.

In fact I have heard Muslims who were unashamedly boasted about the Islamic conquest - those that you chronicled from AD 633 until the first crusade. Some attributed the Muslim successes due to Islam as the true Allah’s religion.
 
Thanks for the chronicle of the rise of Islamic empire and conquest.

Muslim posters here are mild by comparison and their efforts to appear “moderate” are very visible. If you participate in any Islamic/Muslims forums which I had the opportunity to experience especially in their apologetic, you will hear more candid Muslim thought.
Thank you for your kind words. I have debated with Muslims on other sites, and their comments here are typical; responding to them is like a piece of cake.
Some attributed the Muslim successes [in conquest] due to Islam as the true Allah’s religion.
This would be a natural conclusion because [as I said above] Islam is about conquest, war, and subjugation. Ironically, they are right about its being Allah’s true religion; it’s just not God’s.
 
Thank you for your kind words. I have debated with Muslims on other sites, and their comments here are typical; responding to them is like a piece of cake.

This would be a natural conclusion because [as I said above] Islam is about conquest, war, and subjugation. Ironically, they are right about its being Allah’s true religion; it’s just not God’s.
Interestingly, do any of you intent to discussion this issue without bias?
 
Interestingly, do any of you intent to discussion this issue without bias?
That’s impossible since everyone is biased to some extent.

Besides, understanding is a two-way street: it cannot be achieved if only one side of the story is allowed to be told while the other is silenced with charges of “bias”, “racism”, and other ad hominems. If telling the politically incorrect side is “bias”, then so much the better; political correctness was invented to deny/conceal truth.
 
That’s impossible since everyone is biased to some extent.

Besides, understanding is a two-way street: it cannot be achieved if only one side of the story is allowed to be told while the other is silenced with charges of “bias”, “racism”, and other ad hominems. If telling the politically incorrect side is “bias”, then so much the better; political correctness was invented to deny/conceal truth.
** The Christianity or Judaism or Islam was not a political mission. Niether Moses wanted some political status nor Jesus nor Muhammad. It was all due to the intransigence (High level opposition) of the opponents which led the matter into some politics.

Moses had to deal with things political. His mission was only to get the Israelis out of Egypt which he tried his best and was successful. Pharoah was not agreeing to release the Israelis. Pharoah was wrong on all counts. sxample:

Pharoah said that:
  1. He would not let the Israelsi live happily, peacefully in land of Egypt.
  2. He would not let them leave the country.
That was wrong by all accounts (counts). God guided Moses and he was able to lead the people to liberty and achieved the mission.

Jesus did not have any politics. He was highly opposed and humilated. But the situation did not develop to the extent that he could take up any political struggle. There was no chance and no time. But his teaching was perfect and suitable for the Jews at that time (under foreign rule).

Had the Jews listened to Jesus, they would have achieved everything. But they denied Jesus and tried to kill him. As a result:

From Quran: Some people believed (in Jesus) and some people opposed. We helped (aided) those who believed (in Jesus) and they overcame the opponents… **Al-Quran 61:14.

It was same in the case of Muhammad. He and his followers suffered much for 13 years in Makkah. Then he had to flee for his life, to Madinah. There also, the pagans (enemies) attacked him every years with large forces.

Muhammad did not have any political mission. Later when his system was established, the nearby states started attacking him. He had to ward them off. That is the reality. Muhammad was all for peace all the time. So we better not blame any one, please.
 
** The Christianity or Judaism or Islam was not a political mission. Niether Moses wanted some political status nor Jesus nor Muhammad. It was all due to the intransigence (High level opposition) of the opponents which led the matter into some politics.

Muhammad did not have any political mission. Later when his system was established, the nearby states started attacking him. He had to ward them off. That is the reality. Muhammad was all for peace all the time. So we better not blame any one, please.**
Christianity was not political but that cannot be said of Islam. Mohammad was certianly a politician.
 
Indeed it is, and that is to the detriment of those who believe as Christ Jesus told us, that we are to “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s, and unto God that which is God’s.”

It is not just a philosphical point to get people to stop complaining about having to pay taxes, but a basis for a complete way of life, given to us by He who is the complete way TO everlasting life.
 
Yes, i think Jesus speaks about spiritual matters being seperate from politics and man made things. Not to say that people can’t be spiritual in politics and other things but spiritualism (connection with God) transcends politics and man made laws and systems.

The Koran seems to teach something different. It seems to tie civil law in with spirituality in a very binding way.

It is quite possible that one group of people can look to spirituality (connection with God) as a basis for relating religiously in society and another group can look instead to what is lawful and unlawful according to a written accepted revelation.

I suppose the extremes of both ways can have their different problems.
 
**
…Later when his system was established, the nearby states started attacking him. He had to ward them off. That is the reality. Muhammad was all for peace all the time. So we better not blame any one, please.**
That’s right! He had to ward them off all the way to the gates of Vienna.
 
Yes, i think Jesus speaks about spiritual matters being seperate from politics and man made things. Not to say that people can’t be spiritual in politics and other things but spiritualism (connection with God) transcends politics and man made laws and systems.

The Koran seems to teach something different. It seems to tie civil law in with spirituality in a very binding way.

It is quite possible that one group of people can look to spirituality (connection with God) as a basis for relating religiously in society and another group can look instead to what is lawful and unlawful according to a written accepted revelation.

I suppose the extremes of both ways can have their different problems.
Very true. According to John Henry Newman, Islam is static while Christianity is dynamic.

Islam is always threatened by external forces while Christianity is always threatened from within.

That is why Islam can never be at peace until the entire planet is Islam. Christianity on the other hand, need only control itself to have peace. Both requirements are nearly impossible.

Very opposite systems indeed. 🙂
 
I have the opinion that we were created, that we as human beings are limited and dependent upon our Creator. I also believe that our Creator is All-Wise and All-Knowing, and that He sent us revelation.

**No disagreement on this - our God or Allah, the God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac, the God of the jews, Christians and muslims is all wise and all knowing. **

And Allah came down manifest and told you that women should get half the inheritance of men… what would you say? No? That you know better than Allah?

here’s my disagreement on this. did you hear God/Allah actually say this or you refer to what you read in the quoran, w/c only came into revelation or existence somewhere in the 5th c? if this knowledge came to you from your own interpretation or from other you relied upon, have you considered it could be flawed? misinterpreting what God says often happen because human wisdom is limited. man’s ways are not God’s ways.

Merry Christmas and peace to all.
 
Sister Amy;4569059:
I have the opinion that we were created, that we as human beings are limited and dependent upon our Creator. I also believe that our Creator is All-Wise and All-Knowing, and that He sent us revelation.

**No disagreement on this - our God or Allah, the God of Abraham, Jacob and Isaac, the God of the jews, Christians and muslims is all wise and all knowing. **
And Allah came down manifest and told you that women should get half the inheritance of men… what would you say? No? That you know better than Allah?

here’s my disagreement on this. did you hear God/Allah actually say this or you refer to what you read in the quoran, w/c only came into revelation or existence somewhere in the 5th c? if this knowledge came to you from your own interpretation or from other you relied upon, have you considered it could be flawed? misinterpreting what God says often happen because human wisdom is limited. man’s ways are not God’s ways.

Merry Christmas and peace to all.

Merry Christmas and peace to all.


**Emarc, please remember that the order to give 1/2 to the ladies was in such a time and area where the ladies had no right at all. They had no share in inheritance. They were in fact a part of the inheritance i.e. left over stuff. They used to be divided amongst the inheritors

Think of that time when a girl used to be buried in the sand soon after birth. That was nearly 600 A.D. I do not know about the different laws of inheritance in other religions, Judaism, Christianity and Roman law. If you have some news of a better law about the inheritance for the ladies then please inform us. Half is better than nothing.

I am sure there must be some law about inheritance for the Jews. I am also sure that Jesus followed that law and did not leave anything contrary to the Jewish law. Please help us with your knowledge. Thanks.**
 
… please remember that the order to give 1/2 to the ladies was in such a time and area where the ladies had no right at all. They had no share in inheritance. They were in fact a part of the inheritance i.e. left over stuff. They used to be divided amongst the inheritors …
Sounds like you are saying they didn’t have any rights because they didn’t have any rights.
Think of that time when a girl used to be buried in the sand soon after birth. That was nearly 600 A.D.
What society did this? Where?
I do not know about the different laws of inheritance in other religions, Judaism, Christianity and Roman law. If you have some news of a better law about the inheritance for the ladies then please inform us. Half is better than nothing.
I am assuming by “better” you mean better than Islamic law. The Book of Numbers, Chapter 27, Verse 8 of the Old Testament says, “When a man dies without a son, his inheritance shall pass to his daughter.” There were five daughters of a man who died without a son, and the daughters petitioned Moses for the inheritance. That was c. 1250 B.C., almost 2,000 years before Mohammed who made inheritance law [using the term loosely] “better” by giving women only half.
 
** I admire the rule presented in last post. See below.

Treat others as you would be treated.**

I wish every one followed that rule here too. I am sorry, (I regret) I had to write things against my beliefs and wishes at time when some people were harsh against Islam.
Good, and you should know that you better read the answer given to you, digest them logically, rather than keeping asking or claiming the same things over and over again.
 
Which includes politic.
** Yes, you are right swariffin, Islam is a complete code of life for all mankind till doomsday. It is the last testament for all mankind. It has its religious politics but it is not a political religion. It is all spiritual. Primarily spiritual and spiritual till the end unless provoked into politics.

Then Islam has its good politics too, better than any one else.
**
 
Why do you need the answer in Catholic Forum? you supposed to go to Islam forum. Please don’t be offended, I’m just wondering:confused:
How rude, Wina! He is obviously interested in Christianity and is questioning Islam; wouldn’t the charitable, Christian response be to guide him?
 
Plus I have to note here that Sister Amy didn’t answer to my questions and is trying to changed the subject maybe to label me as a Kafir or infidel and this always happens.

I answer Sister Amy saying honestly that if you are able to help answer to my questions First and DON’T try to change the subject. And if you have no idea about the subject matter say nothing.
Psst, don’t pay any attention to Sister Amy, Walid. She is brainwashed and blind and always changes the subject or goes silent when confronted with facts she cannot answer. The blind cannot lead the blind.
 
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