Muslims battle against translation of i am

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Now , I have been In debates with Muslims time and time again .The subject is Christ being GOD . I quoted from John 8:56-58 Where Christ confirms that he is “I AM” and I made the connection between that verse and EXODUS 3:14 Where GOD tells Moses to tell them that "I AM " sent him. This stubbed them for a moment , because their Quran tells them that those who speak against them and their book lie and they believe so , so whatever angle they can push to get their points across , they will . I am not a big studier of the Greek language . A middle eastern Muslim came back to me with an explanation . He said that the translation is different and does not translate to I AM.They also confirmed that neither verses translate to I AM. I came back with more points such as john 8:56 when Christ speaks of Abraham rejoicing to see his day and when he did was glad .Meaning that Abraham saw him . They came back with John 9:9 when the beggar confirms that I am . (notice I am and not I AM because the beggar was confirming who he himself was)CHrist and GOds I Am was included in a statement they were making .It seems as though they read from Muslim commentary and not the actual verses . YEt John 9:9 they claimed is the same exact translation as I AM in John 8:58 . AS you can see they are pricking at straws BUT DOES ANYONE KNOW ABOUT THE TRANSLATIONS OF I AM ?
 
Now , I have been In debates with Muslims time and time again .The subject is Christ being GOD . I quoted from John 8:56-58 Where Christ confirms that he is “I AM” and I made the connection between that verse and EXODUS 3:14 Where GOD tells Moses to tell them that "I AM " sent him. This stubbed them for a moment , because their Quran tells them that those who speak against them and their book lie and they believe so , so whatever angle they can push to get their points across , they will . I am not a big studier of the Greek language . A middle eastern Muslim came back to me with an explanation . He said that the translation is different and does not translate to I AM.They also confirmed that neither verses translate to I AM. I came back with more points such as john 8:56 when Christ speaks of Abraham rejoicing to see his day and when he did was glad .Meaning that Abraham saw him . They came back with John 9:9 when the beggar confirms that I am . (notice I am and not I AM because the beggar was confirming who he himself was)CHrist and GOds I Am was included in a statement they were making .It seems as though they read from Muslim commentary and not the actual verses . YEt John 9:9 they claimed is the same exact translation as I AM in John 8:58 . AS you can see they are pricking at straws BUT DOES ANYONE KNOW ABOUT THE TRANSLATIONS OF I AM ?
From the impression I’ve over this conversation, it’s best not to seek out these debates unless you’re in the ‘proper’ setting.

I don’t know Greek, but their argument rests on the Quran being the uncorrupted revelation of God – a clarification of the (once perfect, then corrupted) New Testament and Tanakh.

What you could do, without knowing any Greek, is ask them any sort of question challenging that idea, such as:

How do you know, outside the Quran, that the Hebrew Bible and the NT were corrupted?
Why would God allow mankind to follow such a corruption for so long?
Why, according to you, are some things true according to the Quran, and not others? How are you able to judge that?
 
Well if you look at the response of the people of Nazareth you can tell he said something very, heretical. They tried to stone him for saying I am. But I really wouldn’t know anything else about the translations of it all.

But wouldn’t other verses do fine. There were verses where he quited demons and wouldn’t allow them to say who he was. There is Peter saying you are the Christ the son of the living God. There is I am the way the truth and the life. Whoever sees me sees my Father.

But, I think a better way to approach this would be to show them how Christ could not have been a good prophet because all records of his life and all close followers of Him indicated that Christ said He was God. There is no story of Jesus as a prophet out there meaning Christ’s mission was essentially a failure if he was a prophet as the whole world was led to heresy because of him. So, he can’t be a prophet or a good man. That can’t happen given the evidence we have. And seeing no other evidence points to him not being God, I’d like to assume He was.
 
If he didn’t say “I AM”, then why did they pick up stones to throw at him (John 8:59)? After all, if all Christ had said was that he existed before Abraham, that would just be nonsensical talk to them, and nonsensical talk was not punishable by death by stoning in the Old Testament :D!

What was punishable by death was blasphemy - making yourself God, which is exactly what they thought Jesus did by calling himself “I AM”. On another occasion, the Jews explained why they picked up stones - “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God”(John 10:33). It was for the same reason that they picked up stones in John 8:59, because Jesus used God’s name “I AM” for himself.

Notice that Jesus’ answer “I AM” was in response to the question that was asked of him - “Who do you claim to be?” (John 8:53)

When the beggar said “I am”, the question to which he responded was “Is not this the man who used to sit and beg?”. They wanted to know whether he was the same blind beggar whom they had seen before. The context clearly changes the meaning! He thus didn’t equate himself to God as Jesus did by saying that he was “I AM”.

One more point.

When he said to them, “I AM,” they drew back and fell to the ground. (John 18:6). Why did they fall to the ground just because he said “I am”, it is because he used God’s name “I AM” with power that they fell to the ground. 🙂
 
The problem is the approach. Arguing with the Bible does no good because Muslims do not accept it. Even if you get the Greek perfectly, they will simply dismiss it as of no authority.
 
The problem is the approach. Arguing with the Bible does no good because Muslims do not accept it. Even if you get the Greek perfectly, they will simply dismiss it as of no authority.
Absolutely.
 
Isn’t it true that in the Quran it states that Jesus was not crucified but looked like he was? But why would this whole “exercise” need to happen in the first place? :confused:

Unless Jesus actually said that he was God. Right?🤷

MJ
 
There’s a big difference between saying:

John 9:9 Some said, “It is he”; others said, “No, but he is like him.” He said, “I am the man.

and saying:

[58] Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was**, ****I am.**”

For a man to say that He existed before Abraham who lived thousands of years ago and at the same time use the name I AM is completely different than someone saying “I am the man” even if the Greek word is the same.

Also, there is a passage in John that people seem to forget. First of all, how do we know that Jesus claimed to be God? We can know by seeing what the Jews thought he claimed. Even though Jesus didn’t say “I am GOD” does not mean that He didn’t claim to be God in a Jewish way. We have to understand Judaic context in 1st Century AD in order to know that Jesus did and said many things that point to Him claiming to be Divine. So the question is, did the Jews think He claimed to be God? Well, yes…

John10:
[32] Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?”
[33] The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God."
[34] Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, I said, you are gods'? [35] If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken), [36] do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, You are blaspheming,’ because I said, `I am the Son of God’?
[37] If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
[38] but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
[39] Again they tried to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.

Also, there are many instances where Jesus uses the name I AM in a divine context. Someone can say “I AM going to the store” and it wouldn’t mean that they’re claiming to be God. But let’s see how Jesus uses the I AM in a couple of place:

Matthew 14
[23] And after he had dismissed the crowds, he went up on the mountain by himself to pray. When evening came, he was there alone,
[24] but the boat by this time was many furlongs distant from the land, beaten by the waves; for the wind was against them.
[25] And in the fourth watch of the night he came to them, walking on the sea.
[26] But when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were terrified, saying, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out for fear.
[27] But immediately he spoke to them, saying, “Take heart, it is I; have no fear.
[28] And Peter answered him, “Lord, if it is you, bid me come to you on the water.”
[29] He said, “Come.” So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus;
[30] but when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, “Lord, save me.”
[31] Jesus immediately reached out his hand and caught him, saying to him, “O man of little faith, why did you doubt?”
[32] And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased.
[33] And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."

First of all, the words translated as “it is I” are the same words in Greek that are translated as “I AM” in the other I AM passages. The Greek word is Ego Emi. So the passage can also be translated as “I AM, do not be afraid.” So when you see someone walking on the water and screaming out “I AM” it is a different I AM then if someone were to say “I AM going to the store…” It all depends on the context. Notice in verse 33, they pay Him homage which even further shows that Jesus is claiming to be divine and the Apostles were starting to understand it that way. Why else would they pay Him homage and worship?

Another passage where the meaning of the I AM is not just an “I am going to the store” type of meaning is:

John 8:
[24] I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he."

Again, “I AM HE” is EGO EMI in the Greek which is the same as the other I AMs. The context is key. The literal translation in the Greek would read “I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I AM.”

These are found throughout the Gospels but here is one more:

[2] Now Judas, who betrayed him, also knew the place; for Jesus often met there with his disciples.
[3] So Judas, procuring a band of soldiers and some officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, went there with lanterns and torches and weapons.
[4] Then Jesus, knowing all that was to befall him, came forward and said to them, “Whom do you seek?”
[5] They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am he.” Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.
[6] When he said to them, “I am he,they drew back and fell to the ground.
[7] Again he asked them, “Whom do you seek?” And they said, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
[8] Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he; so, if you seek me, let these men go.”

Same thing again: “I am he” is really “I AM” in the Greek (ego emi). When He tells them “I AM” they fall on the floor. Do you see the context and the difference between someone saying “I AM going to the store” and the way Jesus uses the “I AM”? It is completely different even if the Greek word is the same. The Greek word in the Septuagent that is used in Exodus 3 when God says He is the “I AM” is the same Greek word that is used by Jesus when He uses the I AM in these ways.

Hope that helps. God bless you. 🙂
 
Now , I have been In debates with Muslims time and time again .The subject is Christ being GOD . I quoted from John 8:56-58 Where Christ confirms that he is “I AM” and I made the connection between that verse and EXODUS 3:14 Where GOD tells Moses to tell them that "I AM " sent him. This stubbed them for a moment , because their Quran tells them that those who speak against them and their book lie and they believe so , so whatever angle they can push to get their points across , they will . I am not a big studier of the Greek language . A middle eastern Muslim came back to me with an explanation . He said that the translation is different and does not translate to I AM.They also confirmed that neither verses translate to I AM. I came back with more points such as john 8:56 when Christ speaks of Abraham rejoicing to see his day and when he did was glad .Meaning that Abraham saw him . They came back with John 9:9 when the beggar confirms that I am . (notice I am and not I AM because the beggar was confirming who he himself was)CHrist and GOds I Am was included in a statement they were making .It seems as though they read from Muslim commentary and not the actual verses . YEt John 9:9 they claimed is the same exact translation as I AM in John 8:58 . AS you can see they are pricking at straws BUT DOES ANYONE KNOW ABOUT THE TRANSLATIONS OF I AM ?
If this is of any help I think they got there argument from this website.
answering-christianity.com/iam.htm

For rebuttals please see…
carm.org/religious-movements/jehovahs-witnesses/john-858-and-1030-33-i-am
neirr.org/egoeimi.htm
vintage.aomin.org/EGO.html
answeringislam.net/Responses/Ghounem/iam.htm
answering-islam.org/Who/i_am.html

Hope this gets you started and helps.
 
There’s a big difference between saying:

John 9:9 Some said, “It is he”; others said, “No, but he is like him.” He said, “I am the man.

and saying:

[58] Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was**, ****I am.**”

For a man to say that He existed before Abraham who lived thousands of years ago and at the same time use the name I AM is completely different than someone saying “I am the man” even if the Greek word is the same.

Also, there is a passage in John that people seem to forget. First of all, how do we know that Jesus claimed to be God? We can know by seeing what the Jews thought he claimed. Even though Jesus didn’t say “I am GOD” does not mean that He didn’t claim to be God in a Jewish way. We have to understand Judaic context in 1st Century AD in order to know that Jesus did and said many things that point to Him claiming to be Divine. So the question is, did the Jews think He claimed to be God? Well, yes…

John10:
[32] Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?”
[33] The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God."
[34] Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, I said, you are gods'? [35] If he called them gods to whom the word of God came (and scripture cannot be broken), [36] do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, You are blaspheming,’ because I said, `I am the Son of God’?
[37] If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me;
[38] but if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
[39] Again they tried to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.

Also, there are many instances where Jesus uses the name I AM in a divine context. Someone can say “I AM going to the store” and it wouldn’t mean that they’re claiming to be God. But let’s see how Jesus uses the I AM in a couple of place:

Matthew 14
[23] And after he had dismissed the crowds, he went up on the mountain by himself to pray. When evening came, he was there alone,
[24] but the boat by this time was many furlongs distant from the land, beaten by the waves; for the wind was against them.
[25] And in the fourth watch of the night he came to them, walking on the sea.
[26] But when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were terrified, saying, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out for fear.
[27] But immediately he spoke to them, saying, “Take heart, it is I; have no fear.
[28] And Peter answered him, “Lord, if it is you, bid me come to you on the water.”
[29] He said, “Come.” So Peter got out of the boat and walked on the water and came to Jesus;
[30] but when he saw the wind, he was afraid, and beginning to sink he cried out, “Lord, save me.”
[31] Jesus immediately reached out his hand and caught him, saying to him, “O man of little faith, why did you doubt?”
[32] And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased.
[33] And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."

First of all, the words translated as “it is I” are the same words in Greek that are translated as “I AM” in the other I AM passages. The Greek word is Ego Emi. So the passage can also be translated as “I AM, do not be afraid.” So when you see someone walking on the water and screaming out “I AM” it is a different I AM then if someone were to say “I AM going to the store…” It all depends on the context. Notice in verse 33, they pay Him homage which even further shows that Jesus is claiming to be divine and the Apostles were starting to understand it that way. Why else would they pay Him homage and worship?

Another passage where the meaning of the I AM is not just an “I am going to the store” type of meaning is:

John 8:
[24] I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he."

Again, “I AM HE” is EGO EMI in the Greek which is the same as the other I AMs. The context is key. The literal translation in the Greek would read “I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I AM.”

These are found throughout the Gospels but here is one more:

[2] Now Judas, who betrayed him, also knew the place; for Jesus often met there with his disciples.
[3] So Judas, procuring a band of soldiers and some officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, went there with lanterns and torches and weapons.
[4] Then Jesus, knowing all that was to befall him, came forward and said to them, “Whom do you seek?”
[5] They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.” Jesus said to them, “I am he.” Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them.
[6] When he said to them, “I am he,they drew back and fell to the ground.
[7] Again he asked them, “Whom do you seek?” And they said, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
[8] Jesus answered, “I told you that I am he; so, if you seek me, let these men go.”

Same thing again: “I am he” is really “I AM” in the Greek (ego emi). When He tells them “I AM” they fall on the floor. Do you see the context and the difference between someone saying “I AM going to the store” and the way Jesus uses the “I AM”? It is completely different even if the Greek word is the same. The Greek word in the Septuagent that is used in Exodus 3 when God says He is the “I AM” is the same Greek word that is used by Jesus when He uses the I AM in these ways.

Hope that helps. God bless you. 🙂
Beautiful 😃

MJ
 
Now , I have been In debates with Muslims time and time again .The subject is Christ being GOD . I quoted from John 8:56-58 Where Christ confirms that he is “I AM” and I made the connection between that verse and EXODUS 3:14 Where GOD tells Moses to tell them that "I AM " sent him. This stubbed them for a moment , because their Quran tells them that those who speak against them and their book lie and they believe so , so whatever angle they can push to get their points across , they will . I am not a big studier of the Greek language . A middle eastern Muslim came back to me with an explanation . He said that the translation is different and does not translate to I AM.They also confirmed that neither verses translate to I AM. I came back with more points such as john 8:56 when Christ speaks of Abraham rejoicing to see his day and when he did was glad .Meaning that Abraham saw him . They came back with John 9:9 when the beggar confirms that I am . (notice I am and not I AM because the beggar was confirming who he himself was)CHrist and GOds I Am was included in a statement they were making .It seems as though they read from Muslim commentary and not the actual verses . YEt John 9:9 they claimed is the same exact translation as I AM in John 8:58 . AS you can see they are pricking at straws BUT DOES ANYONE KNOW ABOUT THE TRANSLATIONS OF I AM ?
Hi there -

I was going to compare Exo 3.14 to John 8.58 for you - but I realized that the original Exodus was written in Hebrew while John was written in Greek.

So, since I could not compare apples to apples, I went to an all Greek Bible and here are the results.

Exodus 3.14
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς μωυσῆν **ἐγώ εἰμι **ὁ ὤν καὶ εἶπεν οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς ισραηλ ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς

John 8.58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς· ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ** ἐγὼ εἰμί.**

I’ll try to study some more for you, but I think it’s pointless talking about this to muslims.
 
I just browsed the answering - Christianity dot com site - that was a joke.

The words " ἐγώ εἰμι " do mean I AM

Here are some other examples of the Old Testament translated in Greek

14 And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.

14 καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν λέγων· ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν. καὶ εἶπεν· οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς ᾿Ισραήλ· ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς.

ellopos.net/elpenor/greek-texts/septuagint/chapter.asp?book=2&page=3
  1. καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς *μωυσῆν ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν καὶ εἶπεν οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Iσραηλ ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς
septuagint.org/LXX/Exodus/3

And here is John 8:58 in Greek

εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς, Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι **ἐγὼ εἰμί. **

greekbible.com/index.php

It’s funny how translations work. I’m not fluent in Greek, but I can read it and understand most of it, but Biblical Greek is something else.

I decided to take each word & break it down, just as it is written in John 8.58

εἶπεν = said

αὐτοῖς = to them

Ἰησοῦς, = Jesus,

Ἀμὴν = Amen

ἀμὴν = Amen

λέγω = I say

ὑμῖν, = to you

πρὶν = before

Ἀβραὰμ = Abraham

γενέσθαι = born

]ἐγὼ = I

εἰμί = am

I did not copy this from anywhere - I’m still testing out my studies in Greek… 😛
 
From the impression I’ve over this conversation, it’s best not to seek out these debates unless you’re in the ‘proper’ setting.

I don’t know Greek, but their argument rests on the Quran being the uncorrupted revelation of God – a clarification of the (once perfect, then corrupted) New Testament and Tanakh.

What you could do, without knowing any Greek, is ask them any sort of question challenging that idea, such as:

How do you know, outside the Quran, that the Hebrew Bible and the NT were corrupted?
Why would God allow mankind to follow such a corruption for so long?
Why, according to you, are some things true according to the Quran, and not others? How are you able to judge that?
I have already been in these methods before . The I AM argument is important but even though if there was a translation issue , verse 56 when Christ confirms himself being around when Abraham was on earth would knock the trans issue out would it not?
 
Well if you look at the response of the people of Nazareth you can tell he said something very, heretical. They tried to stone him for saying I am. But I really wouldn’t know anything else about the translations of it all.

But wouldn’t other verses do fine. There were verses where he quited demons and wouldn’t allow them to say who he was. There is Peter saying you are the Christ the son of the living God. There is I am the way the truth and the life. Whoever sees me sees my Father.

But, I think a better way to approach this would be to show them how Christ could not have been a good prophet because all records of his life and all close followers of Him indicated that Christ said He was God. There is no story of Jesus as a prophet out there meaning Christ’s mission was essentially a failure if he was a prophet as the whole world was led to heresy because of him. So, he can’t be a prophet or a good man. That can’t happen given the evidence we have. And seeing no other evidence points to him not being God, I’d like to assume He was.
I quoted many verses confirming Christ was GOd but no matter what I quote they will misinterpret it and quote something else that they misinterpret . They have been taught that no matter what the Christian says , he or she is wrong. I was hoping that someone here would be able to tell me about the translations of I AM
 
If he didn’t say “I AM”, then why did they pick up stones to throw at him (John 8:59)? After all, if all Christ had said was that he existed before Abraham, that would just be nonsensical talk to them, and nonsensical talk was not punishable by death by stoning in the Old Testament :D!

What was punishable by death was blasphemy - making yourself God, which is exactly what they thought Jesus did by calling himself “I AM”. On another occasion, the Jews explained why they picked up stones - “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God”(John 10:33). It was for the same reason that they picked up stones in John 8:59, because Jesus used God’s name “I AM” for himself.

Notice that Jesus’ answer “I AM” was in response to the question that was asked of him - “Who do you claim to be?” (John 8:53)

When the beggar said “I am”, the question to which he responded was “Is not this the man who used to sit and beg?”. They wanted to know whether he was the same blind beggar whom they had seen before. The context clearly changes the meaning! He thus didn’t equate himself to God as Jesus did by saying that he was “I AM”.

One more point.

When he said to them, “I AM,” they drew back and fell to the ground. (John 18:6). Why did they fall to the ground just because he said “I am”, it is because he used God’s name “I AM” with power that they fell to the ground. 🙂
You know what you make very good points here and i shall use a couple of them
 
The problem is the approach. Arguing with the Bible does no good because Muslims do not accept it. Even if you get the Greek perfectly, they will simply dismiss it as of no authority.
Muslims are told that they do not have a leg to stand upon if they do not accept the Torah and Gospel however they believe that we corrupted them . They have no proof whatsoever of this .
 
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