Muslims battle against translation of i am

[jakasaki]

Pam the Moderator
Ill email you tomorrow about our plans, finally have some news…

Ha… ha…

I’m no Mod…

Rain Bow is new here & many new posters bring old threads back only for Mr. Eric the Mod to lock them up…

Looking forward to hearing about your plans…

Now… we shall resume back to the OT…

 

[rain_bow]

Hi Rain_Bow

You can read all about Sam from his avatar page:

Here is his link - He explains it all on there…:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3560529&postcount=1

Dear Pam, thanks again . Well Sam wrote a very nice article and his logic was very strong. though he became emotional too while writing the article, but I guess it is natural for a person who has passion.

However I found this part very exiting, I am pasting here from this thread.

Part 3/7:

Bible:
01- Affirms Trinity (Matthew 28:18-20).
02- Jesus was crucified.
03- God calling Jesus his Son (Mark 1:11).
04- Polygamy is adultery (Matthew 19:3-12).
05- No marriage in Paradise, humans will be like angels (Matthew 22:30).
06- No killing of any sort (NT), Jesus was healing people.
07- Lots of miracles for Jesus.
08- God does not change his mind, and Jesus words never pass away (Numbers 23:19) & (Mark 13:31).
09- Jesus teaching us not to swear (James 5:12).
10- No eye for eye, (Matthew 5:38-39).
11- Jesus was born in a manger (Luke 2:11-12).
12- Christians are children of God (Matthew 5:9) & (Galatians 3:26).
13- No Jinns creatures.
14- Noah’s wife was not a sinner, (Genesis 6:18).
15- Noah had no sinner son, (Genesis 7:1).
16- Noah total years before the flood 600 years & after the flood 350 years (950 years in total) (Genesis 9:28-29).
17- Aaron, Moses and their sister Miriam (NOT Jesus’ mother) are the children of Amram whom born around 1500 years before Jesus (Numbers 26:59).
18- If someone leaves Christianity, no death punishment (Matthew 10:14).
19- Pray alone in your room, (Matthew 6:5-7).
20- God three love stories (Luke 15:3-32), (Matthew 5:45).

Quran:
01- Rejects trinity, (Quran 05:73).
02- Jesus was not crucified, (Quran 04:157).
03- Jesus is no more than a normal messenger, (Quran 04:171).
04- Unlimited polygamy & divorce are allowed (up to 4 wives at a time), plus unlimited right-hand-posses (concubine or bought), (Quran 04:03).
05- Marriage (sex) & lots of virgins in paradise, (Quran 44:54), (Quran 55:56).
06- Smite heads, slay, fight, and terror, (Quran 47:4), (Quran 09:5), (Quran 09:29), (Quran 03:151).
07- No miracles for Muhammad, (Quran 17:90-93).
08- Allah can substitute his words or cause to be forgotten, (Quran 02:106), (Quran 13:39).
09- Swear as you like, (Quran 05:89), (Quran 02:225).
10- Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth, (Quran 05:45).
11- Jesus was born under a palm tree, (Quran 19:22-24).
12- Muslims are slaves of Allah, (Quran 44:18).
13- There are creatures called Jinns (Jinns can be Muslims), (Quran 51:56), (Quran 72:14).
14- Noah’s wife was a sinner, (Quran 66:10).
15- One of Noah’s sons was a sinner and punished by the flood (Quran 11:42-46).
16- Noah total years before the flood were 950 years, (Quran 29:14).
17- Miriam (Jesus’ mother) is a sister of Aaron & a daughter of Amram whom born around 1500 years before Jesus, (Quran 19:28), (Quran 66:12).
18- Death is the punishment if someone leaves Islam, (Quran 09:12).
19- Pray standing with groups in the street, (Quran 02:43), (Quran 04:102).
20- Allah is Makkar (deceptive/guile), (“plan” is a wrong English translation), (Quran: 07:99), (Quran: 08:30).

The red texts are the nicest thing in NT and worst thing in Koran. Because I Hate polygamy, because love is eternal so there is no place for polygamy and I do not think that any sane person would want to share his/her spouse, while Muslim men are allowed to take 4 wives and many concubines.

Sounds erotic story more than sacred texts.And I really have no reason to appreciate this type of sacred texts that teaches polygamy!however Sam_777 I am really amazed by your article. Just My request, please be safe, because you live in a dangerous land.

PS. One thing I found a bit absurd and that is finally sam apologized to many peoples, But why? It is his choice to choose a religion and he has this right to choose, so why he needed to apologize to peoples, I have no idea. I would never do this same thing as sam did, because,its my life and I have this right to choose. So If my life is in serious danger, I can hide my faith but no apologies.

 

[rain_bow]

R_B…

It’s a long thread and an old one as well.

Please do not reply to the thread…

The Mod’s on here do not want old threads bought forth…

There is no reply option I guess. atleast I did not find

 

[jakasaki]

Dear Pam, thanks again . Well Sam wrote a very nice article and his logic was very strong and rational. though he became emotional too while writing the article, but I guess it is natural for a person who has passion.

However I found this part very exiting, I am pasting here from this thread.

The red texts are the nicest thing in NT and worst thing in Koran. Because I Hate polygamy, because love is eternal so here is no place for polygamy and I do not think that any sane person would want to share his/her spouse, while Muslim men are allowed to take 4 wives and many concubines.

Sounds erotic story more than sacred texts.And I really have no reason to appreciate this type of sacred texts that teaches polygamy!however Sam_777 I am really amazed by your article. Just My request, please be safe, because you live in a dangerous land.

PS. One thing I found a bit absurd and that is finally sam apologized to many peoples, But why? It is his choice to choose a religion and he has this right to choose, so why he needed to apologize to peoples, I have no idea. I would never do this same thing as sam did, because,its my life and I have this right to choose. So If my life is in serious danger, I can hide my faith but no apologies.

On the last sentence in bold - well my dear friend… you need to let Sam reply to you.

I’ve known Sam as a poster on here since I’ve been here…

He’s always been a gentleman…

As far as addressing the rest of your post, I’ll pass because I do not want to derail the thread from the original inquiry…

As always… all my best to you…
Pam

 

[jakasaki]

There is no reply option I guess. atleast I did not find

OK - most likely it was closed/locked a while back…

 

[rain_bow]

Ha… ha…

I’m no Mod…

Rain Bow is new here & many new posters bring old threads back only for Mr. Eric the Mod to lock them up…

Looking forward to hearing about your plans…

Now… we shall resume back to the OT…

Hey Pam,there was no option to reply.That is a closed thread, but I copy and paste some part here, is it against the forum rules? Not sure!

 

[jakasaki]

Hey Pam,there was no option to reply.That is a closed thread, but I copy and paste some part here, is it against the forum rules? Not sure!

Sometimes yes - sometimes no…

The mod’s & users like to keep the topic rolling and not derail with other stuff not pertaining to the original inquiry.

But since we are humans and prone to err - we usually do derail threads & the Mod’s come on and put us back on track…

 

[rain_bow]

On the last sentence in bold - well my dear friend… you need to let Sam reply to you.

I’ve known Sam as a poster on here since I’ve been here…

He’s always been a gentleman…

As far as addressing the rest of your post, I’ll pass because I do not want to derail the thread from the original inquiry…

As always… all my best to you…
Pam

Of course he must be a gentleman I have no doubt, and he is very much humble,I found it when I was reading. And I just said that I would not do that because maybe I am not as humble as him, because I always spear peoples who try to irritate or offend me.I know this is my weakness but This is what I am( very sorry to say).

And thanks Pam for your blessing

 

[jakasaki]

Of course he must be a gentleman I have no doubt, and he is very much humble,I found it when I was reading. And I just said that I would not do that because maybe I am not as humble as him, because I always spear peoples who try to irritate or ofend me.I know this is my weakness but This is what I am( very sorry to say).

And thanks Pam for your blessing

:tiphat: :hug1:

 

[rain_bow]

Sometimes yes - sometimes no…

The mod’s & users like to keep the topic rolling and not derail with other stuff not pertaining to the original inquiry.

But since we are humans and prone to err - we usually do derail threads & the Mod’s come on and put us back on track…

Oh I see, actually his thread was very interesting and touchy, so I wanted to share that which part touched me a lot. He clearly proven that there is a Huge difference between NT and Koran. As i said before I admire NT as a good and humanist book, except few verses like love your enemy or such stuff. But rest of the NT is very nice! .

 

[rain_bow]

:tiphat: :hug1:

:thankyou: :hug1:

 

[GaryTaylor]

except few verses like love your enemy or such stuff. But rest of the NT is very nice! .

Tough one for sure. I can relate…lol

 

[elwill]

You know what you make very good points here and i shall use a couple of them

don’t you think that it’s valid for muslims to think that may be the jews didn’t give jesus the chance to complete his statment , as if he was using the words " I am " as verb not as noun !

 

[Sam_777]

Pam the Moderator

Long time no seen dolphinlove !, welcome back…

Pam recently qualified as CAF Islam religion scholar, she is well researched, well referenced, and well replies.

He’s always been a gentleman…

Of course he must be a gentleman I have no doubt, and he is very much humble

Thank you Pam & rain_bow , but I’m a lost sheep seeking the real Kingdom of GOD.

However, for the contradictions between Christianity & Islam, and to avoid derailing the thread, let us start a new thread for that…

 

[rain_bow]

Thank you Pam & rain_bow , but I’m a lost sheep seeking the real Kingdom of GOD.

However, for the contradictions between Christianity & Islam, and to avoid derailing the thread, let us start a new thread for that…

Hey Sam greetings! please start a new thread about this. I don’t think it will be the right for me to start such thread,because I am none of them . So you start please , so others can participate, and I can have some clear idea about Christianity. I do not know much about Christianity, so i only can find the contradiction between the two religion, when I will be familiar with Christianity. Thanks.

 

[rain_bow]

Tough one for sure. I can relate…lol

 

[Sam_777]

Hey Sam greetings! please start a new thread about this. I don’t think it will be the right thing for me to start such thread,because I am none of them . So you start please , so others can participate, and I can have some clear idea about Christianity. I do not know much about Christianity, so i only can find the contradiction between the two religion, when I will be familiar with Christianity. Thanks.

Hi rain_bow,

It would take from me couple of days to start a new thread since I have to reference it well, but you can run CAF search and you would find many, however, for knowing Christianity, I suggest watching this documentary about Jesus:
youtube.com/watch?v=x2RqZ0R_fxk

Then maybe you can start reading the Bible…

 

[rain_bow]

Hi rain_bow,

It would take from me couple of days to start a new thread since I have to reference it well, but you can run CAF search and you would find many, however, for knowing Christianity, I suggest watching this documentary about Jesus:
youtube.com/watch?v=x2RqZ0R_fxk

Then maybe you can start reading the Bible…

Hello sam , Okay take your time, and I will search CAF too as you said. good luck

 

[spudmurphy]

" καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς μωυσῆν **ἐγώ εἰμι **ὁ ὤν καὶ εἶπεν οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς iσραηλ ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς "

The problem with the above quote from the Greek Septuagint (LXX) at Ex 3:14 is that the expression “ἐγώ εἰμι” is incomplete and makes it look, because of limiting the expression, as though it agrees with the same expression in John 8:58 “ἐγώ εἰμι”.

The author of the above Septuagint quote, either does not know Greek or know it very well or is being economic with the empirical facts for theological reasons! The full expression found at Ex 3:14 (LXX) should actually be “ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν” and not “ἐγώ εἰμι”! The full expression “ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν” is entirely different to the one found in John 8:58 and means “I am the Being” or “I am the One” whereas, the expression found in John 8:58 is a temporal expression denoting time and not identity.

Readers should look at how (for example) the New Living Translation handles the original Greek at John 8:58,

" Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!”

Footnotes:

John 8:58 Or before Abraham was even born, I have always been alive; Greek reads before Abraham was, I am. See Exod 3:14.

Notice how the translators in their foot-note recognise the temporality of the expression, but erroneously point to Ex 3:14 in an effort to maitain their theology, but do not inform their readers, that Ex 3:14 is an entirely different expression to the one found in John 8:58; bias and theology are at play here; many translations do not even bother to inform their readers at all, never mind in a foot-note!

Many readers because of their lack of familiarity with classical or koine Greek are at the mercy of theologically motivated translators and their translation committees, who tend to translate according to their biases and theology and this is seen in several English translations! Readers only tend to find out differences when they begin to compare English translations with the one or ones they already possess, but have no way of checking them, asthey are not familiar with the original Greek and if translators are found to be biased, then there is a good chance that sources for checking…at times will be found to be biased also, as an agenda is at play and it is called theology!

The best way is to learn the language and then check for yourself, you will be horrified at the liberties taken by several translators…!

Spud

 

[rain_bow]

Pam recently qualified as CAF Islam religion scholar, she is well researched, well referenced, and well replies.

Oh really? that’s the good thing indeed. greetings Dear friend Pam for your special talent .I think slowly I must check all the thread regarding Islam where you participate.