Muslims, how much time to pray 4 Raka'ah ?

[JamesD]

I am exchanging comments on a manufacturing industry news site regarding religious freedom in the workplace. It would be helpful to know how long it would take Muslims (especially Sumalis’) to complete the obligatory prayers required 5 time daily. Especially I am thinking during Dhuhr.

The comments are in response to an Article:
"Muslim Workers Face Culture Clash In Minnesota"
excerpts:
…Many who maintain Muslim prayer times during the workday and wear modest clothing have been fired from manufacturers across the state. And Minnesota courts have seen an increase in religious discrimination complaints.
…
Nationally, religious discrimination complaints have nearly doubled since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. In Minnesota, Muslims filed 45 such cases with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission in 2007, up from eight in 2004.
…
Faysal Haliye, 43, is a former Celestica employee who said he was heading to the company’s prayer room one day when a manager ordered him to return to his post. He and 22 other workers have filed a class action lawsuit against Celestica. The religious discrimination lawsuit is pending.
…
I am arguing that religious freedom is more important than allowing corporations to impose anti practice rules that don’t involve a compelling interest for the corp.

Any help with the amount of time involved would be appreciated.

 

[Booklover]

I am exchanging comments on a manufacturing industry news site regarding religious freedom in the workplace. It would be helpful to know how long it would take Muslims (especially Sumalis’) to complete the obligatory prayers required 5 time daily. Especially I am thinking during Dhuhr.

The comments are in response to an Article:
"Muslim Workers Face Culture Clash In Minnesota"
excerpts:
…Many who maintain Muslim prayer times during the workday and wear modest clothing have been fired from manufacturers across the state. And Minnesota courts have seen an increase in religious discrimination complaints.
…
Nationally, religious discrimination complaints have nearly doubled since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. In Minnesota, Muslims filed 45 such cases with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission in 2007, up from eight in 2004.
…
Faysal Haliye, 43, is a former Celestica employee who said he was heading to the company’s prayer room one day when a manager ordered him to return to his post. He and 22 other workers have filed a class action lawsuit against Celestica. The religious discrimination lawsuit is pending.
…
I am arguing that religious freedom is more important than allowing corporations to impose anti practice rules that don’t involve a compelling interest for the corp.

Any help with the amount of time involved would be appreciated.

Jesus said to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s, thus he separated church and state. And seeing the chaos Muslims’ prayer rituals, which also include washing before praying, are imposing on the workplace, I can see why he did that!

How can you possibly believe that corporations can run smoothly if they had to cater to everyone’s religious beliefs! Do you think that it would be fair for Catholics to ask time off at 3:00pm to do the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy, for instance??

Vickie

 

[JamesD]

Jesus said to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s, thus he separated church and state. And seeing the chaos Muslims’ prayer rituals, which also include washing before praying, are imposing on the workplace, I can see why he did that!

How can you possibly believe that corporations can run smoothly if they had to cater to everyone’s religious beliefs! Do you think that it would be fair for Catholics to ask time off at 3:00pm to do the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy, for instance??

Vickie

To which do the corporations belong church or state?
Is Catholic Answers corporation part of the state?
I will repeat that my argument is that when there is not a compelling interest for the corp. I will even include brand image in that interest.
Perhaps you would like to see the practice of having off on Christmas or Sundays eliminated?

 

[Sister_Amy]

I am exchanging comments on a manufacturing industry news site regarding religious freedom in the workplace. It would be helpful to know how long it would take Muslims (especially Sumalis’) to complete the obligatory prayers required 5 time daily. Especially I am thinking during Dhuhr.

Hello!

Somalis or any kind of Muslims pray exactly the same way. Dhuhr is a 4 cycle (raka’ah) prayer. The first two cycles are the longest, requiring recitation of Surat al-Fatihah plus another surah. And some people recite different lengths there, and at different speeds. Plus there is the ritual purification right before the prayer.

So… I decided to test for you, since I needed to pray dhuhr anyway.

4:23 I went to make wudhu (ablution/purification) and that took 4 minutes.

4:27 Then I started the prayer, reciting fatihah pretty slowly going over the proper recitation–most people don’t recite as slow as I did, as I do for practice. I also recited two surahs which are pretty commonly recited, one a little longish, the other pretty short, and recited at the same speed. It took me until 4:36 to finish, including du’a and tasbeeh at the end (which is common for people to do.) So that was 9 minutes.

(2) I began the prayer without adhaan since I’m alone and at work–adhaan+iqama shouldn’t take more than 2-3 minutes. That’s the call to prayer.

So you have 4 minutes for wudhu, plus 9 minutes for the salaat, and then possibly 2 more minutes for the adhan, which they’d make if there was a group.

So that makes 15 minutes.

Because this (dhuhr) is a silent prayer, it typically does not take very long at all because the recitation is silent… so usually isn’t quite as slow, plus since people aren’t listening to it, there’s less benefit to reciting a longer portion except that it just takes longer.

I figured 15 minutes before writing the post, then tested it for you to make sure. I did everything very thoroughly–nobody could say that I rushed through it in the least. And even though many people will pray faster than that, I think 15 minutes is a fair amount of time to make the dhuhr prayer, from start to finish including the washing.

Hope that help!

If any thing wasn’t clear just ask and I’ll try to explain.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Jesus said to give to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s, thus he separated church and state. And seeing the chaos Muslims’ prayer rituals, which also include washing before praying, are imposing on the workplace, I can see why he did that!

How can you possibly believe that corporations can run smoothly if they had to cater to everyone’s religious beliefs! Do you think that it would be fair for Catholics to ask time off at 3:00pm to do the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy, for instance??

Vickie

First of all, the prayer is for God. So to give God what God has demanded is to complete the prayer in its time. Give God what is God’s.

Secondly, it’s not really chaotic to have the prayer at work. Washing isn’t a big deal. I mean, come on–don’t you wash your hands before you eat? After you go to the bathroom? Gosh I hope so! Muslims do too. They wash their hands and their faces and also their feet–although usually they don’t wash their feet at work, just wipe over their socks. Since it takes all of about 3-4 minutes to do completely and slowly, it’s not worth complaining about. People spend as much time applying make-up or shaving or other rituals.

Thirdly, I do agree with James about the holidays. Don’t corporations give most employees off for Christmas? And a day for Easter as well? Doesn’t even the government give that time off? (Of course it does, too.) Perhaps those days should be regular work days, according to you?

I have an hour for lunch, it usually takes me 45 minutes. That means I have 15 minutes to pray, no problem. I also get a 15-minute morning break, and a 15 minute afternoon break. The place I work just offers this much. I don’t need extra special time for my religion, I just take the time that is given me. It’s not such an inconvenience on my employer as you might try to suggest.

 

[JamesD]

Thank you Sister Amy.

Perfect!
Thanks for taking the time to pray for me! (Pun intended)

God Bless you

Jim

 

[dolphinlove]

The place i work at, we have this ‘multifaith prayer room’.
Well, i thought i would check it out…
Well they should rename it the muslim prayer room.
They only had 1 lousy bible in there compared to the 20+ qurans.
They had prayer mats for muslims, nothing for Christians.
They had no other symbolism of any other religious denoms.
They had NO crucifix which i was really upset about.
Im going to buy a crucifix and put it in there so when i want to pray, i have the reminder of what Jesus did for me when i pray.
But in saying this, i only will be praying in my allocated breaks, not interrupting my work time hours…

 

[Sister_Amy]

The place i work at, we have this ‘multifaith prayer room’.
Well, i thought i would check it out…
Well they should rename it the muslim prayer room.
They only had 1 lousy bible in there compared to the 20+ qurans.
They had prayer mats for muslims, nothing for Christians.
They had no other symbolism of any other religious denoms.
They had NO crucifix which i was really upset about.
Im going to buy a crucifix and put it in there so when i want to pray, i have the reminder of what Jesus did for me when i pray.
But in saying this, i only will be praying in my allocated breaks, not interrupting my work time hours…

You must work at a pretty big company or hospital to get a multifaith prayer room, but that’s pretty cool. Of course there’s nothing wrong (Islamically, I mean) with it being multifaith. If you want a crucifix, put one there. If you want a little statue of your favorite saint, put it there. If a Hindu person wants a picture of what he worships, then he can put it there. I seriously doubt the Qur’ans just magically appeared, or that the company provided 20 Qur’ans in one prayer room and just “one lousy bible.” Most likely, it was the Muslims who brought them there–and possibly the mats as well.

You must realize that not many people actually pray such that they’d need to go to a certain prayer room to do it.

Moreover, I don’t see any reason to think that the Muslims you work with do their prayer at any other times than allocated breaks. As I mentioned, I am able to pray within my allocated breaks.

 

[planten]

**
All the replies given by Sis amy are perfect. The company which provides time for prayer will benefit. It is not those prayer mongers who damaged or bombarded any tower. Terrorists have no religion.

If a place is provided for the prayers then it is all the best. The Muslims should observe the timings for prayer and may do it during the breaks, needing no extra time from the company.

Prayer hardly takes much time. The Zuhr prayer may take up 10 to 15 minutes. The Asr prayer may take up about 8 minutes. The Muslim workers should be honest enough not to disturb the peace of the employers by extra long prayers during working hours unless it is during their break time. Then they should be honest to benefit the employers and be faithful to the laws of the country.

Islam teaches that the love of the country is part of the faith. That is an important Hadith. So, wherever the Muslims are living / working, in their own country or abroad, it is their sacred duty to be faithful and honest to serve the company and the country. The managers should be kind to permit a few minutes for prayer to people of any faith, not necessrily muslims.

If any one goes to put a cross in the prayer room, that should person should then be a regular for prayer, not just to put the cross and disappear. It wont harm or hurt the Muslims. They mind their own business.**

 

[Sister_Amy]

I thought Islam taught that nationalism was from Shaytaan. Better to see humanity as a whole than to value one tribe over another, one country over another, one race over another, etc.

Respect the leaders? Yes. Abstain from causing revolts? Sure. But I would be careful, planten, about what you said, because it can easily be misconstrued.

 

[dolphinlove]

First of all, the prayer is for God. So to give God what God has demanded is to complete the prayer in its time. Give God what is God’s.

Firstly, this is not how God instructed us to pray. He instructed us to pray as according to the bible. And this was not 5 times a day at certain times. Time is an abstract thing in heaven, why on earth would God want us to pray at a certain time?

Secondly, it’s not really chaotic to have the prayer at work. Washing isn’t a big deal. I mean, come on–don’t you wash your hands before you eat? After you go to the bathroom? Gosh I hope so! Muslims do too. They wash their hands and their faces and also their feet–although usually they don’t wash their feet at work, just wipe over their socks. Since it takes all of about 3-4 minutes to do completely and slowly, it’s not worth complaining about. People spend as much time applying make-up or shaving or other rituals.

We do wash our hands before we eat, but hence, we wash/eat in our break time, so it doesnt interfere with our work time does it?
Smokers can also present the same argument, are you going to tell me its ok for smokers to take extra breaks because the smoke? People usually shave and apply make up when at home before they go to work. But yet, this leaves the point Vickie brought up about prayer DURING work time, and yes, it does cause interference as does people that smoke! Jesus didnt instruct us to pray during work time, as long as we pray and lead a prayerful life outside of work hours, we are still worshipping and giving thanks to God, no matter what time we do it.

Thirdly, I do agree with James about the holidays. Don’t corporations give most employees off for Christmas? And a day for Easter as well? Doesn’t even the government give that time off? (Of course it does, too.) Perhaps those days should be regular work days, according to you?

That is because we are Christian nations. We take these days off because they are very important to our faith and spend the day reflecting and giving thanks to the Lord for all he has done.
When we are taking a full day off work, its not interfering with work structure, everyone is allocated the same time off. I know for example if im working in a team environment and we have to stop because someone has to pray, it causes a slowdown to production and then effectively the workers lose their momentum on the project. If you have a day off, there is no interruptions to the work cycle. Its like having a day of rest as God has instructed us to do, but because these 2 extra days are for God, there is no justification needed why we shouldnt have them off.

I have an hour for lunch, it usually takes me 45 minutes. That means I have 15 minutes to pray, no problem. I also get a 15-minute morning break, and a 15 minute afternoon break. The place I work just offers this much. I don’t need extra special time for my religion, I just take the time that is given me. It’s not such an inconvenience on my employer as you might try to suggest.

Well good for you, maybe there should be more Muslims like you that pray in their breaks, not during alloted work time!

 

[Sister_Amy]

Firstly, this is not how God instructed us to pray. He instructed us to pray as according to the bible. And this was not 5 times a day at certain times. Time is an abstract thing in heaven, why on earth would God want us to pray at a certain time?

That’s interesting. You actually don’t want people to pray? Very odd coming from a religious person.

It makes perfect sense. Five times a day at certain times. What single action is commanded more times than anything else in the Qur’an? The prayer! It’s all over the Qur’an. All over it. What comes to my mind though, is the verse about the nonbelievers and the people of the book, where God says:

“And they were not commanded except to worship Allah, being sincere to Him in religion, inclining to truth, and to establish the prayer and give the charity. And that is the correct religion.”

We may not understand the concept of “time” according to God (I can give you a whole chapter of Qur’an on that subject!) but we do know how time works on this world. We are not in heaven. We are on earth. We are subject to day and night. Frankly, praying when one gets up in the morning, praying around lunch time, praying midafternoon, praying after sunset (evening), and praying before bed–these prayer times offer first of all a rhythm to the day. They also offer time for reflection on God and His blessings throughout the day. How can you have a day where you forget God, while you are talking to Him five times a day?

Or how can you dare to tell your Creator that your work on this small planet is more important than your conference call with Him? Is your boss more important than your god? I wonder.

We do wash our hands before we eat, but hence, we wash/eat in our break time, so it doesnt interfere with our work time does it?Smokers can also present the same argument, are you going to tell me its ok for smokers to take extra breaks because the smoke? People usually shave and apply make up when at home before they go to work. But yet, this leaves the point Vickie brought up about prayer DURING work time, and yes, it does cause interference as does people that smoke! Jesus didnt instruct us to pray during work time, as long as we pray and lead a prayerful life outside of work hours, we are still worshipping and giving thanks to God, no matter what time we do it.

I have worked at all hours of the day. I’ve had 8-5 jobs, I’ve had 8-6, 7-12, 12-4am, 4-8am, and I am telling you never ONCE has it been too much trouble to take 15 minutes to go pray. People take breaks to go to the BATHROOM, for crying out loud. During most people’s workdays, there will be one, at most two prayers during the day. (Except for doctors who do like 24 hours shifts and similar jobs.) And frankly God DID tell us to pray during work. To STOP working, and pray. It is actually really refreshing. I mean, I have a desk job now, so I sit at my desk, can sit there for hours. Taking a “prayer break” is actually really refreshing. A chance to remember my Lord, consider my blessings, and focus my life. And frankly, doing this regularly, five times a day, gives the day balance and focus and I wouldn’t want to live without it. It’s actually so amazing how this regular prayer keeps Muslims remembering God.

That is because we are Christian nations. We take these days off because they are very important to our faith and spend the day reflecting and giving thanks to the Lord for all he has done.

Oh okay. So what is important to YOUR faith matters, but not what is important to MY faith? I see, I see.

When we are taking a full day off work, its not interfering with work structure, everyone is allocated the same time off. I know for example if im working in a team environment and we have to stop because someone has to pray, it causes a slowdown to production and then effectively the workers lose their momentum on the project. If you have a day off, there is no interruptions to the work cycle. Its like having a day of rest as God has instructed us to do, but because these 2 extra days are for God, there is no justification needed why we shouldnt have them off.

Why do I have to take off on Christmas, though? I get paid hourly, and I don’t celebrate it, why can’t I come in and work, and get paid? Because everyone else is taking the day off. Trust me, taking the day off affects momentum MAJORLY.

Nobody can sit still for more than a couple hours straight without having to take some kind of break. It’s psychological. People just can’t maintain concentration that long. And if you have work going or a meeting or something for a long period of time, it is natural and expected to get a 15 minute break during it. 15 minutes? Enough to go pray, and more refreshing too.

Well good for you, maybe there should be more Muslims like you that pray in their breaks, not during alloted work time!

Maybe people shouldn’t be allowed to take bathroom breaks during work time. Tie people to their desks… sounds like it’s bound to be a success.

If you think that your Creator is happy that you ignore him throughout your workday, I guess that’s your business. But don’t say I didn’t warn you!

 

[Linda_Marie]

Perhaps your company should contact Saudi Aramco to find out how they manage to run this multi-billion dollar industry while accommodating the prayer needs of its employees. The oil industry is a 24 hour a day, non-stop operation. I do know that they reduce working hours during Ramadan to accommodate fasting workers. They only work 4 hours shifts during Ramadan. This was mainly a safety precaution since the fasting workers were prone to fainting.

I don’t recall what the oil workers did, but the other workers, such as gardeners, would stop whatever they were doing, spread out their mats and pray when they heard the call to prayer.

If companies allow prayer breaks for one section of their workforce, they need to allow breaks of equal time to all their employees. I think this is where companies are balking since they see it as lost-time. They are paying workers to take breaks, when they want them working productively and that hits their bottom line. It is not so much anti-prayer as anti-profit loss.

 

[dolphinlove]

That’s interesting. You actually don’t want people to pray? Very odd coming from a religious person.

Putting the words in my mouth… good start…
This is how we are taught to pray:

Luke 11
Jesus’ Teaching on Prayer
1One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”

2He said to them, "When you pray, say:
" ‘Father,[a]
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.**
3Give us each day our daily bread.
4Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.[c]
And lead us not into temptation.[d]’ "

So, as you can see, this points out 2 things, it teaches us HOW to pray CORRECTLY and secondly, it kills your accusation of me not wanting people to pray.

It makes perfect sense. Five times a day at certain times. What single action is commanded more times than anything else in the Qur’an? The prayer! It’s all over the Qur’an. All over it. What comes to my mind though, is the verse about the nonbelievers and the people of the book, where God says:
"And they were not commanded except to worship Allah, being sincere to Him in religion, inclining to truth, and to establish the prayer and give the charity. And that

is the correct religion."

I dont care what the quran says, its made up by a man called Muhammed.

We may not understand the concept of “time” according to God (I can give you a whole chapter of Qur’an on that subject!) but we do know how time works on this world. We are not in heaven. We are on earth.

Well again, i will tell you, i dont care what the quran says and secondly, time on this earth and time in heaven are different, God has not instructed us to pray to him on certain times a day, as long as we do pray, and pray with all our heart, that is what he expect of us.

We are subject to day and night. Frankly, praying when one gets up in the morning, praying around lunch time, praying midafternoon, praying after sunset (evening), and praying before bed–these prayer times offer first of all a rhythm to the day. They also offer time for reflection on God and His blessings throughout the day. How can you have a day where you forget God, while you are talking to Him five times a day?

God is with me and in my thoughts day and night, everytime i have something to eat on my break i always give him thanks and pray before each meal, so you see, we pray quite often, even moreso then muslims do.

Or how can you dare to tell your Creator that your work on this small planet is more important than your conference call with Him? Is your boss more important than your god? I wonder.

This statement is just plain rediculous, you know God is number 1 in my life. And he understands praying around work time and in my breaks is just as beneficial. The point is of this discussion is the disruptions during work. And by saying that, God knows i will pray to him in my free time. He knows we work and doesnt expect me to drop everything in a moments notice. He knows he is first in my life and i give more time to him when i know im not on the clock and can spend time praying, adoration or any other way i choose to spend with him.

I have worked at all hours of the day. I’ve had 8-5 jobs, I’ve had 8-6, 7-12, 12-4am, 4-8am, and I am telling you never ONCE has it been too much trouble to take 15 minutes to go pray. People take breaks to go to the BATHROOM, for crying out loud. During most people’s workdays, there will be one, at most two prayers during the day. (Except for doctors who do like 24 hours shifts and similar jobs.) And frankly God DID tell us to pray during work. To STOP working, and pray. It is actually really refreshing. I mean, I have a desk job now, so I sit at my desk, can sit there for hours. Taking a “prayer break” is actually really refreshing. A chance to remember my Lord, consider my blessings, and focus my life. And frankly, doing this regularly, five times a day, gives the day balance and focus and I wouldn’t want to live without it. It’s actually so amazing how this regular prayer keeps Muslims remembering God.

As i stated earlier, Christians pray more than Muslims, i get up in the morning and pray, i pray before i eat, i pray when im going to work, and coming home and i pray at night… thats more than 5 times a day. And not only that, i go to church every week, and sometimes even more, now hows that for worshipping the maker **

 

[dolphinlove]

Oh okay. So what is important to YOUR faith matters, but not what is important to MY faith? I see, I see.

Your faith is important to you, mine is important to me.

Why do I have to take off on Christmas, though? I get paid hourly, and I don’t celebrate it, why can’t I come in and work, and get paid? Because everyone else is taking the day off. Trust me, taking the day off affects momentum MAJORLY.

Your good at accusing me of not worshipping God the way you deem fit, but when it comes to my religion and we take the day off to worship the Lord, thats not a good reason to disrupt 2 days a year? So what suits your religion is important, but my faith isnt??? i see, i see

Nobody can sit still for more than a couple hours straight without having to take some kind of break. It’s psychological. People just can’t maintain concentration that long. And if you have work going or a meeting or something for a long period of time, it is natural and expected to get a 15 minute break during it. 15 minutes? Enough to go pray, and more refreshing too.

And as i said, there is nothing wrong praying during break times, 15 min morning break, hour for lunch and 15 in the arvo, so why would you need to disrupt work outside of these times??? I pray in these breaks, and im remembering God also, uncanny isnt it?

Maybe people shouldn’t be allowed to take bathroom breaks during work time. Tie people to their desks… sounds like it’s bound to be a success.

If, for example, you have people working in call centres, constantly on the phone and they get breaks to pray etc, thats fine, but bathroom breaks can be taken anytime, we cant help the call of nature, so we have to relieve ourselves, but we can control the times we pray… well in Christianity we can anyway…

If you think that your Creator is happy that you ignore him throughout your workday, I guess that’s your business. But don’t say I didn’t warn you!

I think i pointed out i dont ignore God during the day honey, i even pointed out we pray more than Muslims also…
And dont say we didnt warn you about Jesus and who he truly is.

 

[Booklover]

To which do the corporations belong church or state?
Is Catholic Answers corporation part of the state?
I will repeat that my argument is that when there is not a compelling interest for the corp. I will even include brand image in that interest.
Perhaps you would like to see the practice of having off on Christmas or Sundays eliminated?

I made a valid and applicable comparison, why haven’t you? Having Christmas off is not the same as religious practices being performed several times a day, every day, in the workplace! Ditto for Sundays.

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Hello!

Somalis or any kind of Muslims pray exactly the same way. Dhuhr is a 4 cycle (raka’ah) prayer. The first two cycles are the longest, requiring recitation of Surat al-Fatihah plus another surah. And some people recite different lengths there, and at different speeds. Plus there is the ritual purification right before the prayer.

So… I decided to test for you, since I needed to pray dhuhr anyway.

4:23 I went to make wudhu (ablution/purification) and that took 4 minutes.

4:27 Then I started the prayer, reciting fatihah pretty slowly going over the proper recitation–most people don’t recite as slow as I did, as I do for practice. I also recited two surahs which are pretty commonly recited, one a little longish, the other pretty short, and recited at the same speed. It took me until 4:36 to finish, including du’a and tasbeeh at the end (which is common for people to do.) So that was 9 minutes.

(2) I began the prayer without adhaan since I’m alone and at work–adhaan+iqama shouldn’t take more than 2-3 minutes. That’s the call to prayer.

So you have 4 minutes for wudhu, plus 9 minutes for the salaat, and then possibly 2 more minutes for the adhan, which they’d make if there was a group.

So that makes 15 minutes.

Because this (dhuhr) is a silent prayer, it typically does not take very long at all because the recitation is silent… so usually isn’t quite as slow, plus since people aren’t listening to it, there’s less benefit to reciting a longer portion except that it just takes longer.

I figured 15 minutes before writing the post, then tested it for you to make sure. I did everything very thoroughly–nobody could say that I rushed through it in the least. And even though many people will pray faster than that, I think 15 minutes is a fair amount of time to make the dhuhr prayer, from start to finish including the washing.

Hope that help!

If any thing wasn’t clear just ask and I’ll try to explain.

You’re talking about you, but what if there’s several other Muslims taking off at the same time to perform their ablutions and so on and there aren’t enough sinks for all? What about if anyone passes wind? They have to wash all over again! That so-called 15 minutes could take a whole lot longer.

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

First of all, the prayer is for God. So to give God what God has demanded is to complete the prayer in its time. Give God what is God’s.

God is not a tyrant or irrational! There are set times for prayer in the monastic life as well and they’re beautiful and harmonious in that environment, but lay people are not bound by those rules for obvious reasons.

Secondly, it’s not really chaotic to have the prayer at work. Washing isn’t a big deal. I mean, come on–don’t you wash your hands before you eat? After you go to the bathroom? Gosh I hope so! Muslims do too. They wash their hands and their faces and also their feet–although usually they don’t wash their feet at work, just wipe over their socks. Since it takes all of about 3-4 minutes to do completely and slowly, it’s not worth complaining about. People spend as much time applying make-up or shaving or other rituals.

Of course we wash our hands before we eat and when we go to the bathroom! Those are just the rules of hygiene. Washing the face and feet and so on and applying makeup are done at home, not at the office!

Thirdly, I do agree with James about the holidays. Don’t corporations give most employees off for Christmas? And a day for Easter as well? Doesn’t even the government give that time off? (Of course it does, too.) Perhaps those days should be regular work days, according to you?

Now you’re simply grabbing at straws!

I have an hour for lunch, it usually takes me 45 minutes. That means I have 15 minutes to pray, no problem. I also get a 15-minute morning break, and a 15 minute afternoon break. The place I work just offers this much. I don’t need extra special time for my religion, I just take the time that is given me. It’s not such an inconvenience on my employer as you might try to suggest.

That’s fine if you can work your prayers into your breaks and so on! But where there’s an inflexible prayer schedule in a secular environment, there’s bound to be clashes sooner or later. I never hear of anyone else causing the problems except Muslims.

Do you conider it suitable for a Muslim bus driver to stop the bus and tell the passengers to get out, so he can pray?

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Firstly, this is not how God instructed us to pray. He instructed us to pray as according to the bible. And this was not 5 times a day at certain times. Time is an abstract thing in heaven, why on earth would God want us to pray at a certain time?

We do wash our hands before we eat, but hence, we wash/eat in our break time, so it doesnt interfere with our work time does it?
Smokers can also present the same argument, are you going to tell me its ok for smokers to take extra breaks because the smoke? People usually shave and apply make up when at home before they go to work. But yet, this leaves the point Vickie brought up about prayer DURING work time, and yes, it does cause interference as does people that smoke! Jesus didnt instruct us to pray during work time, as long as we pray and lead a prayerful life outside of work hours, we are still worshipping and giving thanks to God, no matter what time we do it.

That is because we are Christian nations. We take these days off because they are very important to our faith and spend the day reflecting and giving thanks to the Lord for all he has done.
When we are taking a full day off work, its not interfering with work structure, everyone is allocated the same time off. I know for example if im working in a team environment and we have to stop because someone has to pray, it causes a slowdown to production and then effectively the workers lose their momentum on the project. If you have a day off, there is no interruptions to the work cycle. Its like having a day of rest as God has instructed us to do, but because these 2 extra days are for God, there is no justification needed why we shouldnt have them off.

Well good for you, maybe there should be more Muslims like you that pray in their breaks, not during alloted work time!

Great post, Ellen! Couldn’t have said it better!

Vickie :grouphug:

 

[Booklover]

Putting the words in my mouth… good start…
This is how we are taught to pray:

Luke 11
Jesus’ Teaching on Prayer
1One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, “Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.”

2He said to them, "When you pray, say:
" ‘Father,[a]
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come.**
3Give us each day our daily bread.
4Forgive us our sins,
for we also forgive everyone who sins against us.[c]
And lead us not into temptation.[d]’ "

So, as you can see, this points out 2 things, it teaches us HOW to pray CORRECTLY and secondly, it kills your accusation of me not wanting people to pray.

I dont care what the quran says, its made up by a man called Muhammed.

Well again, i will tell you, i dont care what the quran says and secondly, time on this earth and time in heaven are different, God has not instructed us to pray to him on certain times a day, as long as we do pray, and pray with all our heart, that is what he expect of us.

God is with me and in my thoughts day and night, everytime i have something to eat on my break i always give him thanks and pray before each meal, so you see, we pray quite often, even moreso then muslims do.

This statement is just plain rediculous, you know God is number 1 in my life. And he understands praying around work time and in my breaks is just as beneficial. The point is of this discussion is the disruptions during work. And by saying that, God knows i will pray to him in my free time. He knows we work and doesnt expect me to drop everything in a moments notice. He knows he is first in my life and i give more time to him when i know im not on the clock and can spend time praying, adoration or any other way i choose to spend with him.

As i stated earlier, Christians pray more than Muslims, i get up in the morning and pray, i pray before i eat, i pray when im going to work, and coming home and i pray at night… thats more than 5 times a day. And not only that, i go to church every week, and sometimes even more, now hows that for worshipping the maker **

Excellent!

Vickie