Muslims, how much time to pray 4 Raka'ah ?

[ralphinal]

Indeed. In fact, I know someone who actually knows this–that she shouldn’t go the mosque after eating raw garlic. And she eats a LOT of raw garlic for medicinal purposes and I’ve got to admit, praying beside her is really rough sometimes.

This is a sahih (authentic) hadith: Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet came across me in one of the streets of Medina and at that time I was Junub. So I slipped away from him and went to take a bath. On my return the Prophet said, “O Abu Huraira! Where have you been?” I replied, “I was Junub, so I disliked to sit in your company.” The Prophet said, “Subhan Allah! A believer never becomes impure.”

Junub is the state after having sexual intercourse, major ritual impurity. So we don’t say that a person is impure, but ritual purification is really important. Eating something not permissible (pork, alcohol) doesn’t (according to most opinions) put them in a state requiring purification. But physical things?

Ritual purification–washing up after going to the bathroom. Washing arms, face, and feet. It kind of makes sense to do this regularly to keep oneself clean, physically. Having to pray 5 times a day just makes the person keep themselves clean all day. It’s also a hygiene issue, if you think about it. But the actual washing, just feeling clean helps a person concentrate on the prayer.

I can see how it can help. I am not disputing the good aspects of being clean, either.

As someone who has studied psychology, I can tell you that there are people who when dirty, feel like GOd hates them. There are also people who can take it to an obsessive state. Would it not be better to teach everyone that no matter your external filth level, you can pray just the same?

The sex makes you impure thing agrivates me, too, but that is for another thread, if ever.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I can see how it can help. I am not disputing the good aspects of being clean, either.

As someone who has studied psychology, I can tell you that there are people who when dirty, feel like GOd hates them. There are also people who can take it to an obsessive state. Would it not be better to teach everyone that no matter your external filth level, you can pray just the same?

The sex makes you impure thing agrivates me, too, but that is for another thread, if ever.

Well first of all, according to the way that Christians pray, a Muslim can pray at any time, in any state. Muslims can call out to God at anytime, in any place, in any situation, and there’s nothing wrong with it. They can thank Him, praise Him, ask for help, etc.

There is no equivalent to the ritual prayer in Christianity, which requires purification.

And sex doesn’t really make the person impure. It just means they have to take a bath afterwards before they can pray (ritual prayer) again. The point here is that the person has to wash the genitals. The genitals aren’t washed in the regular purification, but after sex, they are.

 

[ralphinal]

Well first of all, according to the way that Christians pray, a Muslim can pray at any time, in any state. Muslims can call out to God at anytime, in any place, in any situation, and there’s nothing wrong with it. They can thank Him, praise Him, ask for help, etc.

There is no equivalent to the ritual prayer in Christianity, which requires purification.

And sex doesn’t really make the person impure. It just means they have to take a bath afterwards before they can pray (ritual prayer) again. The point here is that the person has to wash the genitals. The genitals aren’t washed in the regular purification, but after sex, they are.

Ok, but can you point me to a website that tells me WHY God wouldn’t want us to pray after sex before a bath?

 

[Booklover]

So did you actually agree with me? You said taking a day off work doesn’t affect momentum… it does, right? But people still do it. They take off work when they are sick, when they want vacation, when their kids are sick, and thousands of even more trivial reasons. But if it is for GOD? Uh oh…!

No, I didn’t agree with you! You’ve made conflicting statements.

In post #22 you said this:

“As far as the prayer–in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries, it’s common for all businesses to shut down at the prayer time. I know in Saudia EVERYONE shuts down. Nobody works. The whole city will stop, go pray, and then return to the business. If everyone is praying, then nobody is inconvenienced. I’ve heard that in Saudi too they’ll just cover their merchandise with a blanket, not worry about theft. It’s not a big deal, nothing to whine about.”

But you also state that it’s not okay to take a day off! No one is inconvenienced if everyone is off. Do you get it now?

Why are Islamic countries some of the most backward on the planet?

Hmm… not sure I know what you mean. You think praying makes people backward? Howso?

Well, if too much time is spent in praying and legitimate work doesn’t get done, it could affect lots of things, don’t you think?

Vickie

 

[Sister_Amy]

Ok, but can you point me to a website that tells me WHY God wouldn’t want us to pray after sex before a bath?

I don’t really think of it that way. I think of it as making sure that a person showers after sex. Because the prayer is so regular, it means he has to take a shower soon afterwards. A person can pray after sex without a bath, just not the ritual prayer.

I think it also helps the person mentally prepare for the prayer as well.

 

[adstrinity]

The point here is that the person has to wash the genitals. The genitals aren’t washed in the regular purification, but after sex, they are.

snigger AHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!! stiffles I’m obviously not mature enough to reply to this thread, but, I’ll still ask of this, …why…?

 

[Sister_Amy]

No, I didn’t agree with you! You’ve made conflicting statements.

In post #22 you said this:

“As far as the prayer–in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries, it’s common for all businesses to shut down at the prayer time. I know in Saudia EVERYONE shuts down. Nobody works. The whole city will stop, go pray, and then return to the business. If everyone is praying, then nobody is inconvenienced. I’ve heard that in Saudi too they’ll just cover their merchandise with a blanket, not worry about theft. It’s not a big deal, nothing to whine about.”

But you also state that it’s not okay to take a day off! No one is inconvenienced if everyone is off. Do you get it now?

I got you the first time. It is inconvenient to me that everyone is off on Christmas because it means I can’t work. And I don’t get holiday pay, so it means that I am losing money. That’s pretty inconvenient. So being forced to take off on a holiday that I don’t celebrate is not convenient for me.

That is one issue.

The other issue is taking of days that most people work. People take days off for trivial reasons like the first day of their period and to go to a basketball game. If it’s okay for trivial things, then it definitely should be allowed for GOD. That’s my point.

Well, if too much time is spent in praying and legitimate work doesn’t get done, it could affect lots of things, don’t you think?

I don’t think “too much time is spent in praying.” How much time do you think is too much time to give God out of the work day?

1 minute too much? (spacing out)
5 minutes too much? (bathroom break)
10 minutes too much? (personal phone calls)
15 minutes too much? (idle conversation at work)
30 minutes too much? (surfing the net)
60 minutes? (combination of above activities and more)

How much time is too much time to devote to God?

Wasted Time At Work

 

[inJESUS]

Amy, what are the purification rituals for? i know they are a part of the ritual of rakaat,but what is their purpose ?

 

[Aydan]

Amy, what are the purification rituals for? i know they are a part of the ritual of rakaat,but what is their purpose ?

their purpose is to purify the body in honor of God so that the person can be in a state of grace while they are praying it is away for a person to purify their body and mind for prayer. It is no different then dipping your hand in holy water and making the sign of the cross before mass

 

[Aydan]

Sister Amy
as a Catholic I respect Islam and I respect the Quran in fact I have a Quran that sits right next to my Bibles and I treat it with the same respect as my Bibles. Catholicism teaches that we should RESPECT all religions AND WE SHOULD NOT JUDGE OTHERS IF WE DO WE OURSELVES WILL BE JUDGED I am dismayed at some of the comments I’ve seen in this form I have lots of Muslim friends I pray with them we wish each other blessings on our holidays and I agree with an earlier poster who said that he was tired of people saying that the Quran was simply made up. The way I think of it is that I’m going to treat all religions with respect because I don’t want to be judged on the day of judgment because I turn my back on people who were not of my religion and say negative things about them. In fact during Ramadan I where the hijab as my way of standing up against those who commit acts in the name of Islam because I know that is not what true Islam is all about when my fellow Catholics asked me why I’m wearing it (I wear it to Mass as well) it gives me a chance to explain what Islam truly teaches. I just wanted you to know that not all Catholics think Mohammed pbuh is not genuine or something like that. I’m learning Turkish as a second language and I’m currently learning how to pray in Turkish and yes I do pray At Mass in Turkish as well.

 

[Aydan]

Sister Amy
as a Catholic I respect Islam and I respect the Quran in fact I have a Quran that sits right next to my Bibles and I treat it with the same respect as my Bibles. Catholicism teaches that we should RESPECT all religions AND WE SHOULD NOT JUDGE OTHERS IF WE DO WE OURSELVES WILL BE JUDGED I am dismayed at some of the comments I’ve seen in this form I have lots of Muslim friends I pray with them we wish each other blessings on our holidays and I agree with an earlier poster who said that he was tired of people saying that the Quran was simply made up. The way I think of it is that I’m going to treat all religions with respect because I don’t want to be judged on the day of judgment because I turn my back on people who were not of my religion and say negative things about them. In fact during Ramadan I where the hijab as my way of standing up against those who commit acts in the name of Islam because I know that is not what true Islam is all about when my fellow Catholics asked me why I’m wearing it (I wear it to Mass as well) it gives me a chance to explain what Islam truly teaches. I just wanted you to know that not all Catholics think Mohammed pbuh is not genuine or something like that. I’m learning Turkish as a second language and I’m currently learning how to pray in Turkish and yes I do pray At Mass in Turkish as well.

that should be acts of violence sorry

 

[dolphinlove]

Well you are the one who doesn’t want Muslims to pray. You’re the one who has the problem then, not me.

Where did i say i didnt want muslims to pray? Again, you are putting words into my mouth, again.

How very disrespectful.

How is this disrespectful? I dont beat around the bush when i say things. I do not believe in the quran, as you do not believe in the bible. You obviously think a majority of the bible is made up and corrupt, now is that not also disrespectful?

Once again, very disrespectful. Also, let me remind you that you are not in heaven, you are on earth. God did instruct us to pray at certain times of the day.

Its disrespectful that i dont believe in the quran??
I could say the same thing about you and the way you believe in the bible.
We are not going to agree on this, as we both know our scriptures tell us differently.

There is a tradition of praying three times a day in Judaism–perhaps you’re not aware of that. But there is a specific morning, evening, and afternoon prayer.

Yes, im aware of Jewish tradition, and i have the upmost respect for Jews. But yet, their prayers arent regulated to a specific time now are they?

God told Muslims 5 times a day. (Actually 50, but it was reduced to 5… long story.) Just because you say otherwise doesn’t change the truth.

Yes i know the history behind this, ive learnt a lot of my friend who is muslim.

Fascinating, how you’ve not been able to comprehend the idea of a Muslim prayer after all this time. First of all, God is with me and in my thoughts day, and night. Everytime I sit, come home, leave the home, greet another Muslim, everytime I eat, go to bed or get up, visit the mosque, talk to my friends, etc., etc., etc., So you see we pray quite often, moreso than you’re aware. The five daily prayers? Something else entirely.

So when you speak to Christians or Jews as well, you dont acknowledge God at that time as well?? Interesting…
God is with us Christians day and night as well, so im very aware to know what its like to have him with me constantly…

Oh? So you just fit God into your schedule when it’s convenient for you? Rather than fit your schedule around Him. So your schedule and work take priority over God. It’s okay, you can just admit that.

Again, didnt say this did i, your getting good at attempting to put words in my mouth… AGAIN.
God is first and foremost in my life, as i already have explained to you.
Another example, if i worked in an ER for example and we have just had a patient been brought in and it was time to pray, would i put off the prayer time to attempt to save another persons life?? Well now, let me think… what would i do???
Well if i was a Muslim, i would have to drop everything and pray wouldnt i, but being a Christian, God knows the importance of saving a persons life and as long as i give him ample time and show him love, im sure he wouldnt mind if i prayed to him later to save the persons life. So dont attempt to make me look like a bad person and put God second, i dont appreciate it. As long as God knows he is first in my life, that is what matters.

Trust me, Muslims pray all those times plus more, more, more. The five daily prayers? A different kind of prayer (which is physical and spiritual) at least five times is in addition to all that. Plus I as a Muslim go to the mosque at least every week. But I try to go every day–sometimes more than once a day.

Well im happy for you, the more we pray to God, the better it is. Im not going to get into a fruitless debate with you of who prays more etc, i think its a waste of time.

 

[dolphinlove]

Great post, Ellen! Couldn’t have said it better!

Vickie :grouphug:

Same with your responses my dear friend.
:hug1:

 

[dolphinlove]

I got you the first time. It is inconvenient to me that everyone is off on Christmas because it means I can’t work. And I don’t get holiday pay, so it means that I am losing money. That’s pretty inconvenient. So being forced to take off on a holiday that I don’t celebrate is not convenient for me.

As long as your religious beliefs can be worked around, thats ok, but ours, its not suitable for you, who is now not been fair?

That is one issue.

The other issue is taking of days that most people work. People take days off for trivial reasons like the first day of their period and to go to a basketball game. If it’s okay for trivial things, then it definitely should be allowed for GOD. That’s my point.

That is their perogative.

I don’t think “too much time is spent in praying.” How much time do you think is too much time to give God out of the work day?

1 minute too much? (spacing out)
5 minutes too much? (bathroom break)
10 minutes too much? (personal phone calls)
15 minutes too much? (idle conversation at work)
30 minutes too much? (surfing the net)
60 minutes? (combination of above activities and more)

How much time is too much time to devote to God?

Firstly, you can never spend too much time with God. I mean, if i had the opportunity, i would pray 24/7, but he doesnt expect this of us.
But in your first quote, you think spending Christmas day and Easter are a waste to have off. You know they are the most important days in Christianity, but yet you feel you are been disadvantaged when you dont work those days. Now is that fair to our religion? You want me to show you the upmost respect, but when it comes to us, you again prove you have no respect for our beliefs.

 

[Aydan]

I made a valid and applicable comparison, why haven’t you? Having Christmas off is not the same as religious practices being performed several times a day, every day, in the workplace! Ditto for Sundays.

Vickie

Vickie let me ask you what to think about this situation what about Catholics who want to use their brakes to go to confession or attend daily Mass to receive the Eucharist or to attend Mass on a holy day of obligation would you be against letting those workers have time off to do those things?

 

[ralphinal]

their purpose is to purify the body in honor of God so that the person can be in a state of grace while they are praying it is away for a person to purify their body and mind for prayer. It is no different then dipping your hand in holy water and making the sign of the cross before mass

I don’t see it that way. Holy water is a sacramental. It carries a minor blessing with it, and can be used ot bless with the sign of the cross. Without doing ti first, there is no effect on the mass. In fact, there is no reason as far as the mass goes to make the sign of the cross or use holy water.

These rituals are required before the prayers.

How can washing the body put you in a state of grace?

 

[dolphinlove]

Vickie let me ask you what to think about this situation what about Catholics who want to use their brakes to go to confession or attend daily Mass to receive the Eucharist or to attend Mass on a holy day of obligation would you be against letting those workers have time off to do those things?

I can answer this for Vickie, and i know she would be more than happy for a catholic to attend a mass, say prayers, go to confession or whatever, during their breaks…
The same goes for muslims, she would be more than happy for a muslim to pray, as long as it was in their break times.

 

[inJESUS]

their purpose is to purify the body in honor of God so that the person can be in a state of grace while they are praying it is away for a person to purify their body and mind for prayer. It is no different then dipping your hand in holy water and making the sign of the cross before mass

dipping your hand in holy water is not obligatory and it is used for blessing and you can do it however you want… while in ablution only specific parts are washed and it is necessary to perform them in a specific manner like starting with the right hand then use both hands to wash till the wrist 3 times, rinse the mouth 3 times, sniff water and and blow it out 3 times, wash the face 3 times, wash arms till elbow begining with the right hand ecc…and if not performed correctly or if you happen to touch your private part by mistke, you must go all over it again…

 

[Nickkname]

I am exchanging comments on a manufacturing industry news site regarding religious freedom in the workplace. It would be helpful to know how long it would take Muslims (especially Sumalis’) to complete the obligatory prayers required 5 time daily. Especially I am thinking during Dhuhr.

The comments are in response to an Article:
"Muslim Workers Face Culture Clash In Minnesota"
excerpts:
…Many who maintain Muslim prayer times during the workday and wear modest clothing have been fired from manufacturers across the state. And Minnesota courts have seen an increase in religious discrimination complaints.
…
Nationally, religious discrimination complaints have nearly doubled since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. In Minnesota, Muslims filed 45 such cases with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission in 2007, up from eight in 2004.
…
Faysal Haliye, 43, is a former Celestica employee who said he was heading to the company’s prayer room one day when a manager ordered him to return to his post. He and 22 other workers have filed a class action lawsuit against Celestica. The religious discrimination lawsuit is pending.
…
I am arguing that religious freedom is more important than allowing corporations to impose anti practice rules that don’t involve a compelling interest for the corp.

Any help with the amount of time involved would be appreciated.

We need to pray for all believers, of whatever religion, and help them with religious freedom. They have a right to pray, worship, and serve!

 

[Steven_John]

I wash before mass, much same as wudo.

It helps me start my prayer focus.

I think it would be real cool if priests offered mass in lunch time so Catholics could skip lunch and pray instead.

Most people here in Oz would benefit from less work and more prayer.

Less work and more family time would be cool too.

Lets all pray well and stay well