Muslims in heaven

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Dear LDN Catholic,
The Quaran Does not teach the truth about very much, especialy about Jesus.

Most Muslims have never read the Quaran, or will.

Many Muslims will never have the Gospel preached to them and therefore die in ignorance of the Truth.

Therefore, without rejecting Jesus.
 
sawman said:
Dear Grandfather,

Just one small suggestion, please to your statement.

A Muslim’s belief in allah and Mohammed does not equal rejection of Christianity.

That’s all. Peace!
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That is nonsense.
 
Dear Grandfather,
It is not nonsense! Ignorance of Christianity does not equal Rejection of Christianity!
 
Sawman,

Grandfather is saying that Christianity and Islam are mutually exclusive religions. You cannot be a Christian and accept Muslim beliefs, and vice versa.

Muslims don’t believe in the divinity of Christ, and like the Jews, they think they are still awaiting the Messiah.

Just based on that, Muslims have to reject Christianity to stay Muslim. Otherwise they have to admit their entire belief system is wrong. The same goes for Christians, if you accept Muslim beliefs, then you are denying Christ.

I think the confusion here is over the word “reject.” You can reject beliefs without rejecting the person. To reject in the context Grandfather used it does not mean to have hatred for the believer; it means not to accept the other’s beliefs.
 
sawman said:
Dear LDN Catholic,
The Quaran Does not teach the truth about very much, especialy about Jesus.

Most Muslims have never read the Quaran, or will.
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Actually I beg to differ, most Muslims have read the Qur’an. I live in an area with a sizeable Muslim community, I work with a number of Muslim teenagers, all of whom have read the Qur’an in full before the age of 16.

And it might not tell the truth about Jesus but it does tell Muslims two things:

He existed and the Christians worship Him as God.
 
Dear all,
My point is this, devout muslims all over the world believe lies about Christianity. A preson cannot be concidered to have made an informed "rejection " of something he is ignorant about.

I have also read testimonies of converts from indonesia and arab countries where most of the populations are illiterate. They only know what they are taught by Imams. Many Muslims claim that one cannot understand the Quaran properly unless you are literate in arabic.Most Muslims by far don’t know arabic.

I am not trying to be difficult. Peace be to you all.
 
Psalms 121:1 I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help. [Only the LORD can help me.]

Our confidence is in God only. So we lift up our eyes above the hills to look to God who makes all earthly things to us what they are. We see everything in God; we expect it, in God’s way and time. We comfort ourselves in the Lord, when difficulties and dangers are greatest.

We rejoice in the Lord. Rejoicing doesn’t mean we put others down, their God or beliefs. This does not make Catholicism better or Our Lord and Savior better. It makes us smaller because we are thinking of other gods and not the true God. Why would we say things about other religions that our not true, just to make them look bad? Why do we spend time studying other gods if we think they are not true? Why don’t we study the One True God? I think we do this because we really don’t believe we are the only true religion and we need to put others down to feel we are true because we don’t know it or believe it. I say study and commune with Our Lord, rejoice and love will show us the way to The One True God.
 
soma said:
Why would we say things about other religions that our not true, just to make them look bad?
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Perhaps I missed something - where in this thread did someone say something about another religion that isn’t true?
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The Catholic Church, has the fullness of "revealed’ truth, but not all truth.

Jim
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Your profile says that you are Catholic. How is it possible that the Church founded by Christ does not have all of the truth? What truth does it not have?
 
forgiveall said:
As Mother Teresa said, “A Muslim must be a good Muslim, a Hindu must be a good Hindu, and a Christian must be a good Christian.”

I would rejoice, because they found Jesus!!!
🙂
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As Cardinal Ratzinger said:

"In effect the conclusion has been drawn, and it has been drawn today, that in the future we need only seek that Christians should be good Christians, Moslems good Moslems, Hindus good Hindus, and so forth. If it comes to that, how are we to know when one is a ‘good’ Christian, or a ‘good’ Moslem? "The idea that all religions are – if you talk seriously – only symbols of what ultimately is incomprehensible is rapidly gaining ground in theology, and has already penetrated into liturgical practice. When things get to this point, faith is left behind, because faith really consists in the fact that I am committing myself to the truth so far as it is known
 
stmaria said:
As Cardinal Ratzinger said:

"In effect the conclusion has been drawn, and it has been drawn today, that in the future we need only seek that Christians should be good Christians, Moslems good Moslems, Hindus good Hindus, and so forth. If it comes to that, how are we to know when one is a ‘good’ Christian, or a ‘good’ Moslem? "The idea that all religions are – if you talk seriously – only symbols of what ultimately is incomprehensible is rapidly gaining ground in theology, and has already penetrated into liturgical practice. When things get to this point, faith is left behind, because faith really consists in the fact that I am committing myself to the truth so far as it is known
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Do you have a reference for this quote?
 
stmaria said:
Cardinal Ratzinger, 1988 Remarks to the Bishops of Chile
unavoce.org/cardinal_ratzinger_chile.htm
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Thanks for the link.

What Cardinal Ratzinger said is very true.
If we hold an attitude of “all religions are good and OK”, then there is no absolute truth.
Truth has to be absolute; otherwise, it is not truth.

If we are Catholics and believe in the Trinity God, then gods from other religions must be false gods. When we say other gods are not true gods, we are not down grading anyone, we are not putting down any other religion, we are simply speaking the truth according to our true faith.

Truth has to be absolute; otherwise, it is not truth.

No one can say Trinity God is the true God and Moselem god is also true god.
If Moselem god is not true god, then it is false god. And when we say it is a false god, we are simply telling the truth.

Holding an attitude of “I am OK, you are OK” in this matter is not being loving.
True love is to speak in honesty “with love”, not to avoid expressing the truth.

This dose not mean people in other religions won’t go to heaven. They may very well be in heaven according to our God’s unlimited mercy unknown to us.
 
I think there are some rosy views of salvation here. There are probably Muslims, Jews, etc, in Heaven, but there a few truths we ought to consider before we go into that statement:

Some view all religion as a path to God. As Fulton Sheen said, whenever a Higher and Lower form of existence communicate, it is always the Higher that descends to the Lower. Hence no man can reach God–it was God, in the form of Jesus Christ, who came to reach man. You can be the most righteous person on the face of the Earth–if you don’t have Christ, you have no concrete path to God, although he certainly cares about you and is trying to reach you.

Second, from a theological point of view, people get to Heaven by dying in the State of Grace. Whatever religion they belong to, if they die in the state of Grace, they are saved. For non-Catholics who do not have confession, and who do not make a perfect act of contrition at death (which is extremely rare) this entails having never committed a mortal sin in one’s whole life. They do not necessarily have to know what a mortal sin is or what effect it has, only that it is 1) Grave Matter 2) Is committed with full consent 3) Is committed with full knowledge of the sin being wrong, and that it will harm others. How many people have gone their whole lives without committing a mortal sin? They certainly exist, but they don’t grow on trees. From a practical point of view, this truth throws Universalism out the window.

In conclusion, I think that if I get to Heaven, I will find that many people who should be there are not there, and people who I never dreamed would be there are.

Mat.
 
InLight247 said:
Thanks for the link.

What Cardinal Ratzinger said is very true.
If we hold an attitude of “all religions are good and OK”, then there is no absolute truth.
Truth has to be absolute; otherwise, it is not truth.

If we are Catholics and believe in the Trinity God, then gods from other religions must be false gods. When we say other gods are not true gods, we are not down grading anyone, we are not putting down any other religion, we are simply speaking the truth according to our true faith.

Truth has to be absolute; otherwise, it is not truth.

No one can say Trinity God is the true God and Moselem god is also true god.
If Moselem god is not true god, then it is false god. And when we say it is a false god, we are simply telling the truth.

Holding an attitude of “I am OK, you are OK” in this matter is not being loving.
True love is to speak in honesty “with love”, not to avoid expressing the truth.

This dose not mean people in other religions won’t go to heaven. They may very well be in heaven according to our God’s unlimited mercy unknown to us.
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Yes, but… No one here has really addressed my comment from earlier in this discussion:

----There’s a great deal of subjectivity involved in matters relating to metaphysics and the spirit–it’s been a point of much contention for at least the past three thousand years. The problem is made clear by the fact that fervent believers in every one of the world’s major faith traditions would also hold, like you, that their beliefs are based on truth, not opinion----

So I ask: Does it give any of you pause when you consider that all those many other believers in the world are just as convinced as you are that they are in posession of the Truth? If not, why not?

That’s my question, and I’m curious to hear your answers. My own feeling is that since there’s obviously only one ultimate reality–one God if you will–then any differences in our approaches to that reality must be culturally determined, by and large. It’s completely clear to me that, had I been born to a fervent Muslim family in a Muslim country, all the “logic” of my upbringing would convince me that the religion in which I had been raised was the true religion worshipping the true God. How that is any different from the situation and attitudes in Christian countries is beyond me.

And please realize that arguments that boil down to “my religion is the true one because it’s true” are not very compelling.
 
Figaro_Jones said:
So I ask: Does it give any of you pause when you consider that all those many other believers in the world are just as convinced as you are that they are in posession of the Truth?
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What you said is very true. I have no doubt Muslims believe their god is the true God; otherwise they will not stay Muslim.

I also agree that religion is highly related to culture background and the environment a person grows up with.

That’s why I said I believe Muslims may go to heaven, the same heaven we are talking about, the only heaven.

God understands the culture, the tradition, the environment a person lives his whole life with.
When a non-Christian dies, and standing in front of God, he will be judged with the same standard for Christians – has he lived a selfish life, a sinful life? Or has he lived a moral, loving, caring life? How much has he loved? Has he been forgiving or has he been holding grudges? Has he loved God above all things? Has he been faithful of using God given talents to serve others? …………………

At that critical moment, when the true God, the Son of God, our Lord Jesus, who is in charge of life and death, who is the only way, reveals Himself to that dying person, that person will be granted a last chance to make his final choice. (my belief) And truth will be black and white, concrete, and beyond any shadow of doubt. The Muslim will realize the only true God is the God of Trinity.

To say a Muslim should strive to be a good Muslim does not mean Muslim’s god is a true God. It is for what I just explained above. If there is no way for a Muslim to convert in this earthly life, then to be a good Muslim – to love God and love neighbor - will help him receive a good final judgment when he dies. If he acknowledges and chooses Jesus at the very last critical moment, he will be saved. Whether God let him directly go to heaven or stay in the Purgatory is way beyond our business.

But truth has to be absolute; otherwise, it is not truth.

And whenever we have a chance, we ought to spread the good news of the Truth we believe in, to help people receive the Truth earlier, not later.
 
  • I have no doubt Muslims believe their god is the true God; otherwise they will not stay Muslim.
That’s why I said I believe Muslims may go to heaven, the same heaven we are talking about, the only heaven. *

How can they go straight to heaven if they do not have faith, hope and charity? (which you cannot have if you don’t know those virtues).
I think that they will need a time of purification to process all that Truth revealed to them at the moment of death.
 
Allah is not there. If Allah exists at all, the unitarian being woshipped by Muslims, he is the devil. Jesus is there, the second Person of the Holy Trinity, Risen and Ascended in body.
The prophet of Allah was a man driven by lust, and a pedophile, who claimed a divine right to all the women and nieces he desired and those he conquered. Those who follow him are deceived. Some may be invincibly igrnorant and we hope for them.
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Someone asked why the thread changed, did someone say lies about another religion. I reacted to this quote as rubbish and false lies about another religion.

We spread lies like this then wonder why a soldier would shoot the Koran with a machine gun. We don’t need to spread lies about other religions because we don’t need to recruit suicide bombers.

God is all that matters, not what others think about other religions, the truth about God is fulfilling, universal, available and applicable to all. It is only the those that don’t feel God or fulfilled that would speak negatively towards other religions.
 
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