Muslims win toy pigs ban

[Karin]

** I have always wondered why this symbol was chosen by the Nazi party.**

Hitler realized one thing the movement lacked was a recognizable symbol or flag. In the summer of 1920, Hitler chose the symbol which to this day remains perhaps the most infamous in history, the swastika. It was not something Hitler invented, but is found even in the ruins of ancient times. Hitler had seen it each day as a boy when he attended the Benedictine monastery school in Lambach, Austria. The ancient monastery was decorated with carved stones and woodwork that included several swastikas. They had also been seen around Germany among the Freikorps (soldiers for hire), and appeared before as an emblem used by anti-Semitic political parties. But when it was placed inside a white circle on a red background, it provided a powerful, instantly recognizable symbol that immediately helped Hitler’s party gain popularity.Hitler describe the symbolism involved: “In the red we see the social idea of the movement, in the white the national idea, in the swastika the mission to struggle for the victory of Aryan man and at the same time the victory of the idea of creative work, which is eternally anti-Semitic and will always be anti-Semitic.”

 

[Karin]

urbana:

This represents a completely inappropriate analogy. Why is the average Jew upset over a swastika? Are they offended by the symbol itself, or by what they perceive is the intent? For example, the Swastika is displayed numerous times in the movie “Life is Beautiful.” I challenge you to find a Jewish organization that condemns that movie. Similarly, while some Jews may be uncomfortable seeing the symbol due to the associations it holds for them, I doubt many are offended by the tile pattern of swastikas on the floor of the Amiens Cathedral (built in the 1200’s). In these cases, while the symbol may hold unpleasant associations for the viewer, the viewer has no objection to the meaning associated with that use of the symbol.

Comparing Piglet to the swastika and an upside down Crucifix is therefore a false comparison. In America (and I presume in the U.K.), the swastika is not regularly seen except in connection with Nazis and evil. Therefore, when randomly seeing a swastika, it is reasonable to assume malicious intent, or at least blatant disregard of the sensitivities of others, since everyone knows in what light the swastika will be interpreted. The same may not be true in India, as the swastika is a Hindu holy symbol. I cannot think of any non-malicious reason for displaying an upside down Crucifix. Therefore, it is reasonable for me to be offended if I observe an upside down Crucifix. However, the same cannot be stated regarding Piglet, pigs, etc. The average person displaying a pig has no intent to offend, nor is the meaning they attach to the image in itself offensive.

I could care less why a Jew was upset over a swastika…my H uses it as a religous symbol but can not display it in or around our home becuase the Jews in our town dont like it…they dont care that it is a relgious symbol for him.
And how can you say what offeneds a Muslim or not? While an inverted cross may offend you it may not offend other Catholics.
IMHO all relgious symbols should be confined to houses of worship or your own home and personal property.
What does not offend one person can offend another. If pigs offend some muslims and swastikas offened some jews and on and on then these symbols should be removed once again this is MHO.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Karin:

Hitler realized one thing the movement lacked was a recognizable symbol or flag. In the summer of 1920, Hitler chose the symbol which to this day remains perhaps the most infamous in history, the swastika. It was not something Hitler invented, but is found even in the ruins of ancient times. Hitler had seen it each day as a boy when he attended the Benedictine monastery school in Lambach, Austria. The ancient monastery was decorated with carved stones and woodwork that included several swastikas. They had also been seen around Germany among the Freikorps (soldiers for hire), and appeared before as an emblem used by anti-Semitic political parties. But when it was placed inside a white circle on a red background, it provided a powerful, instantly recognizable symbol that immediately helped Hitler’s party gain popularity.Hitler describe the symbolism involved: “In the red we see the social idea of the movement, in the white the national idea, in the swastika the mission to struggle for the victory of Aryan man and at the same time the victory of the idea of creative work, which is eternally anti-Semitic and will always be anti-Semitic.”

Thank you for the information. I will save this information for the kids when we get to modern history. May I ask what book or source of information you used for this? I want to read some more about this.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Karin:

I could care less why a Jew was upset over a swastika…my H uses it as a religous symbol but can not display it in or around our home becuase the Jews in our town dont like it…they dont care that it is a relgious symbol for him.
And how can you say what offeneds a Muslim or not? While an inverted cross may offend you it may not offend other Catholics.
IMHO all relgious symbols should be confined to houses of worship or your own home and personal property.
What does not offend one person can offend another. If pigs offend some muslims and swastikas offened some jews and on and on then these symbols should be removed once again this is MHO.

Again I ask the question of where does it stop? I firmly believe that it would be impossible to ban everything in public that could, might or potentially be able to offend others. Laws should be few and far between in thses matters.

 

[Guar_Fan]

KathleenElsie:

Thank you for the information. I will save this information for the kids when we get to modern history. May I ask what book or source of information you used for this? I want to read some more about this.

I don’t have all the background information about the pre-Nazi use of the swazika, but the Yakima Valley Museum in Washington state has a quilt on display which was made in 1914, well before the Nazi party.


Apparently it was regarded as a traditional symbol of good luck.

 

[Karin]

KathleenElsie:

Thank you for the information. I will save this information for the kids when we get to modern history. May I ask what book or source of information you used for this? I want to read some more about this.

I just Googled it …
I did a term paper on this in high school and if correct this info is from Wikpideia (sp?)

 

[Karin]

Guar Fan:

I don’t have all the background information about the pre-Nazi use of the swazika, but the Yakima Valley Museum in Washington state has a quilt on display which was made in 1914, well before the Nazi party.
http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2005/sep/quilts/swastika500.jpg

Apparently it was regarded as a traditional symbol of good luck.

It is still viewed as “good luck” in many faiths.
IMHO it is a beautiful quilt!

 

[The_Eurasian]

In the Islam Sub-Forum, a Muslim lady using the nickname “FAITH 101” opened a THREAD entitled “PIGS” July 6,2005.

She was quoting Deuteronomy 14:8. Isaiah 65:4 specially Jesus’ casting of the demons onto the pigs and the pigs immediately jumping off the cliff!!! See Faith 101’s post#1

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=63882

By July 7, in Turkey, some 1,500 sheep owned by several Muslim shepherds, just suddenly all jumped off a cliff!!! That’s right!!! 1,500 sheep jumped off a cliff just hours after this Muslim lady was quoting Jesus’ casting the demons onto the pigs and the pigs jumping off a cliff. (see post #25 in the link)

 

[swampfox]

I’m sorry I started this thread.

 

[Robert_Bay]

This topic might be better placed in the Islam forum.

For now I will close this thread