Must we forgive the unrepentant?

[clem456]

Does God require us to do something for others (forgive the unrepentant) that He does not do? Yes or no?

Dave and Ender both. Did Christ die for you? Whats that worth to yas?

These red herrings you bring up repeatedly have been addressed numerous times. Do your homework.
Unsubscribe.

 

[Ender]

Did Christ die for you?

Yes

Whats that worth to yas?

What is a coupon worth that is not redeemed? What effect does Christ’s offer of forgiveness have if I do not accept it?1847 “God created us without us: but he did not will to save us without us.” To receive his mercy, we must admit our faults.

These red herrings you bring up repeatedly have been addressed numerous times. Do your homework. Unsubscribe.

This point has been raised numerous times, and evaded each time. It has yet to be answered, and the reason for that is fairly obvious: “To receive his mercy, we must admit our faults”. Are we to be more merciful than Christ and forgive those who have not admitted their faults?

Ender

 

[o_mlly]

God, the sinless one, and His instrument on earth – the Church-- to which He has given the power to loose and bind in heaven, require repentance to obtain forgiveness.

We sinners, are not God. Therefore, it does not follow that His condition to forgive be our condition to forgive. His ways are not our ways. Certainly, we cannot demand more from the sinner than God for we are not holy as God is holy. It seems to me that we beggars for God’s mercy can make no demands on other beggars – we are not like God.

From Jan. 22, 2016

Recognize the difference between Creator and creature is not by degree but categorical. The former is sinless; the latter all sinners (save one). Therefore, in forgiving sin God’s way cannot be our way.

All sin is against God, a misuse of His creature. All Christian sinners seek reconciliation with God. The sinless (God) need not forgive but He may do so conditionally and does. He requires repentance and conversion of heart.

Sinners, on the other hand, always beggars at God’s door for His forgiveness, may not as sinners themselves impose conditions on other sinners to forgive transgressions. In fact, God instructs sinners specifically to forgive unconditionally in order that they may obtain His forgiveness.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Are we to be more merciful than Christ and forgive those who have not admitted their faults?

Ender

I agree, it is far better for everyone concerned, if we can forgive someone who is repentant.

Now if they don’t repent, do we continue to hold their crime against them? How then can we live by the greatest commandments, and continue to love them as ourselves?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I agree, it is far better for everyone concerned, if we can forgive someone who is repentant.

Now if they don’t repent, do we continue to hold their crime against them? How then can we live by the greatest commandments, and continue to love them as ourselves?

We are called to love ourselves in unrepentant sin?

 

[Eric_Hyom]

We are called to love ourselves in unrepentant sin?

Hopefully, we would be repentant when we ask for forgiveness.

However, those who harm us, they might not be repentant, so how do we love the unrepentant as we love ourselves?

 

[o_mlly]

Are we to be more merciful than Christ and forgive those who have not admitted their faults?

I think it more accurate to ask: Can sinners demand the same as the Sinless from the unrepentant?

 

[Ender]

I think it more accurate to ask: Can sinners demand the same as the Sinless from the unrepentant?

I don’t understand what this question asks. I don’t know that anything is being asked of the unrepentant, nor is it clear who would be considered sinless in this context.

Anyway, regarding forgiveness, it is surely true that while we can forgive someone for injuring us, that does not constitute forgiveness for his sin. We don’t have the power to do that. Our forgiveness and the forgiveness of Christ are two different things.

Ender

 

[o_mlly]

I don’t understand what this question asks. I don’t know that anything is being asked of the unrepentant,

Repentance.

nor is it clear who would be considered sinless in this context.

God.

Anyway, regarding forgiveness, it is surely true that while we can forgive someone for injuring us, that does not constitute forgiveness for his sin.

Becaaue all sin is an offense against God, only God can forgive sin.

We don’t have the power to do that. Our forgiveness and the forgiveness of Christ are two different things.

Agree.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

regarding forgiveness, it is surely true that while we can forgive someone for injuring us,

I believe it is also true that we can forgive someone who is unrepentant also. This also helps us to let go of any anger that we might hold against them

that does not constitute forgiveness for his sin. We don’t have the power to do that. Our forgiveness and the forgiveness of Christ are two different things.

Agreed, but I feel we shall also be shown mercy, if we are merciful to others.

 

[simple_soul]

The Gospel reading at Church today made me think of this thread so I decided to share it.

Mark 2:1-12New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Forgives and Heals a Paralyzed Man
2 A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2 They gathered in such large numbers that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3 Some men came, bringing to him a paralyzed man, carried by four of them. 4 Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus by digging through it and then lowered the mat the man was lying on. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, 11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

If only God can forgive sins, why doe Jesus demonstrate to the teachers that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins. Doesn’t the Son of Man, In this contex, refer to mankind in general? If Jesus was wanting to demonstrate that only God can go give sins would He not have referred to him self as the Son of God having the authority to forgive sins?
Just trying to understand this better.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

If only God can forgive sins, why doe Jesus demonstrate to the teachers that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins.

In Psalm 51, King David says he only sins against God, even though he has committed adultery, and arranges to have the woman’s husband killed, so he can marry her.

Psalm 51
For the director of music. A psalm of David. When the prophet Nathan came to him after David had committed adultery with Bathsheba.

1 Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion
blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash away all my iniquity
and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is always before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned

Doesn’t the Son of Man, In this contex, refer to mankind in general? If Jesus was wanting to demonstrate that only God can go give sins would He not have referred to him self as the Son of God having the authority to forgive sins?
Just trying to understand this better.������

We may only sin against God, but Jesus gave his disciples authority to forgive sins, even though people may not sin directly against his disciples.

I can go to confession, and ask forgiveness because I have punched someone, and the priest has the authority to forgive me, even though the priest was not my victim. If the priest and God can forgive me, then what about the person I have hurt? I have not been asked by a priest to, to go back to the people I have hurt, repent to them and ask their forgiveness.

If this is the case, then it does appear, we only sin against God.

 

[simple_soul]

In Psalm 51, King David says he only sins against God, even though he has committed adultery, and arranges to have the woman’s husband killed, so he can marry her.

Psalm 51
For the director of music. A psalm of David. When the prophet Nathan came to him after David had committed adultery with Bathsheba.

1 Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your unfailing love;
according to your great compassion
blot out my transgressions.
2 Wash away all my iniquity
and cleanse me from my sin.
3 For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is always before me.
4 Against you, you only, have I sinned

We may only sin against God, but Jesus gave his disciples authority to forgive sins, even though people may not sin directly against his disciples.

I can go to confession, and ask forgiveness because I have punched someone, and the priest has the authority to forgive me, even though the priest was not my victim. If the priest and God can forgive me, then what about the person I have hurt? I have not been asked by a priest to, to go back to the people I have hurt, repent to them and ask their forgiveness.

If this is the case, then it does appear, we only sin against God.

Hhhmmm…so if I’m understanding you correctly…no one who has been wronged by some one else should ever expect to be apologized to or be asked for forgiveness of…because even though the person was wronged the sin was not against themselves but against God.
Boy, I guess I should stop having my children apologize to each other for being mean to each other if that is the case.

Is that what you are trying to say with out really saying it?

One should be “ok” with the offender and act as though nothing was ever done to offend or harm ones self regardless if that offender seeks forgiveness from the one they offended because the offense was not against themselves but against God? If that is the case then there is no reason for anyone to forgive or offer forgiveness to anyone?

Am I understanding what you are trying to say here correctly?

Regardless if it is, I do not believe Jesus was just referring to His Apostles in this particular situation but will have to run it by a biblical scholar some day to get a clearer understanding.
But regardless I now have a clearer understanding of why some people in my life have no intention of ever acknowledging any wrong doing they have done and feel completely justified about it so thank you for sharing you insight.

 

[clem456]

The Psalm is not a statement of doctrine.
The words “against you only” are not meant to exclude our injury and responsibility to others. David is recognizing the ultimate harm of his sin in God’s eyes, not excusing himself in the eyes of his fellow man…

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Hhhmmm…so if I’m understanding you correctly…no one who has been wronged by some one else should ever expect to be apologized to or be asked for forgiveness of…because even though the person was wronged the sin was not against themselves but against God.

For me, I believe it is so much better to repent, and to apologise to the victim. But the title of the thread is, ‘Must we forgive the unrepentant?’ I truthfully believe it is so much better to forgive the unrepentant, the opposite is to store up anger against that person, and that journey can be far more painful.

Boy, I guess I should stop having my children apologize to each other for being mean to each other if that is the case.

Children will clean their teeth if you keep nagging them, hopefully, they will come to understand why they should clean their teeth, then they will do it freely and willingly. Making children apologize seems a similar journey, but it can only have meaning when the apology comes freely, willingly and without prompting

But regardless I now have a clearer understanding of why some people in my life have no intention of ever acknowledging any wrong doing they have done and feel completely justified about it so thank you for sharing you insight

Often it can be family and friends who hurt us and don’t apologize, but we have to live with them