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MariaG
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And Protestants who stick up for the Catholics:thumbsup: :tiphat:
It is certainly not perfect, but the only place I have stuck with at length.
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It is certainly not perfect, but the only place I have stuck with at length.
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qui_est_ce
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mgrfin
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Obviously this board is open to debators, who have a particular position, and are willing to argue it - but respectfully, without personal attacks, and without insult.
Calling people stupid, ignorant, narrow-minded, ill-informed, dumb, even heretical - you know, ‘argumenta ad hominem’, has no place here.
peace
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mikeledes
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Deconi
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…Plus there is an answer for EVERYTHING here. That is what ‘the fullness of truth’ means!
They mey not agree with all of it, but an answer to their queries can be found here.
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Mannyfit75
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Not all of Protestants are uncharitable, some are. Likewise not all Catholics are charitable. The opinions many of us Catholic express is solely on what we believe. We believe what our Church teaches because the CC teaches what has been revealed to us by Divine Revelation.
If we reject what the Holy Mother Church teaches, we would reject Jesus Christ. This is a risk we Catholics cannot take. We would be taking a gamble over our souls.
If we, Catholics belittle you, in anyway, we offer our most humble apologies. I have seen numerous times Non-Catholics called our belief heretical or worst. Considering the fact, that the theology of Protestantism is completely flawed, we reject it fully because it is a fragmented truths. Truths which lacks the fullness of truth.
We do honor Protestants love of Scripture. However, they ought to do it the right way. Let the Church interpret it. If you interpret Scripture in a vacuum, many interpretations will come about. We already witness this through varies denominations of Protestantism.
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Mannyfit75
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True, Catholics do criticize one another. The debate is all over in other forums. Just take look at Moral Forum, and others.
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bobzills
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I don;t think that this is true. There have been Catholic who have rejected the previous teaching of the Church on allowing torture, and they have not rejected JC. In fact, the recent teaching of the Church on torture forbids it use.
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MariaG
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Which particular teaching on allowing torture are you referring to?
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mgrfin
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The Catholic Church rejects the death penalty. How then could it, would it condone torture?
Please provide some links or references to where the Catholic Church condones torture.
Thanks.
peace
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Teflon93
Guest
Torture and the death penalty are different things, in fairness.
Not least of which because the definition of torture changes; the definition of the death penalty does not.
It should be noted as well that some things we consider to be torture today were once preferred to jail terms or other penalties in the Middle Ages. Thus, criminals would claim “benefit of clergy” to receive a thumb brand and go their merry way. Many today would consider such practices to be torture.
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bobzills
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As I understand it to be, the Catholic Church today condemns torture. To see that this was not always true, you may consult the New Catholic Encyclopedia (Green book) and look up the word “torture”. The first edition has slightly more on it than the second edition. Or you may consult the papal bull Ad exstirpanda issued on May 15, 1252 by Pope Innocent IV. This bull was confirmed by Pope Alexander IV on November 30, 1259 and by Pope Clement IV on November 3, 1265. It authorised the use of torture to extract confessions under certain circumstances.
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Teflon93
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By comparison, are you claiming that the Protestant communities were anti-torture and anti-death penalty in the 16th century?
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peteysmom
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who said our faith was superior to anyone elses? I was born into catholisism and that’s were I intend to stay, and not just for that reason. when I was younger my sister married a baptist man and whenever the famalies would get together the mother of the baptist family was always attacking my mother, telling her our religion was all wrong and they were constantly trying to get us to convert to their church. my mother would never attack back, she would just politely decline their offer. I had been away from GOD and the church for a while, and by the grace of GOD found my way back, and it brought me to tears to know that GOD was still there waiting for me and loving me. scince I have been back I have seen (on this website) protestants comparing catholisism to satanism, but I didn’t see a bunch of hatred directed back. I’m not saying all catholics are perfect, I’m positive that there are jerks in every faith. I am still a catholic for many reasons. 1 catholisism to me seems to be a religion of peace and truth, and in this world we live in the truth is under attack more and more. 2 Jesus refers to peter as the Rock with a capitol R the only place in the bible were rock is refered to with a capitol R. of course we know that Jesus is the Rock, but he also told peter that whatever you say here on earth goes in heaven. 3 Jesus also said to peter satan wishes to sift you like wheat (plural meaning you all) but you peter I pray for in unity. 4 the Chaplet of Divine Mercy it was a prayer written by blessed sister faustina when Jesus came to her and told her to write it and show the world to pray it. she only had 3 years of education and Jesus came to her and had her write this.the prayer is said on a rosary but instead of saying hail mary’s you say different prayers. do some research on it you will see what I’m referring to. one of the prayers that Jesus told blessed faustina to say on this is the I believe wich has the words we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church. 5 if you want to see witness to some catholic miracles check out these websites. padrepiodevotions.org
padre pio lived with the stigmata (5 wounds of christ) was able to bilocate, could speak tounges without knowing the languages, could levitate, could read peoples souls, had dead people from purgatory come visit him asking for his prayers, etc.
st-faustina.org
blessed faustina had many of the same powers that padre pio had, and like I said she had only 3 years of education and could barely read or write, but she ended up writing a diary and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy
relevantradio.com
miracles happen on this radio station every day you just can’t see them. relevant radio is therapy for the soul and I would suggest this radio station to anyone of any faith, in particular I would suggest listening to father john corapi. He explains the catholic faith like nobody I have ever heard, and you won’t hear them referring to nobody elses faith as satanists whenever you listen. atheiests have been converted to the catholic faith after listening to relevant radio. The tides turning some baptists are now praying the rosary, the national church of ireland just converted to the catholic faith recently, 2 bishops from another faith (don’t remember witch one) have recently converted to catholisism because their religion started to ordain women as priests. For to long alot of people had the wrong idea about the catholic faith because they have only heard one side of the story, relevant radio lets you hear the other side of it and it’s turning haters into believers. don’t just go through the motions in a catholic church and you will walk out the door with the body&blood of christ in you.
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bobzills
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I am not claiming anything about Protestantism. The question asked of me was to provide a reference which shows that the RCC condoned torture in the past. I believe that I have done this.
Also, I believe that the teaching of the RCC has changed on this issue since the RCC today does not approve of the use of torture to extract confessions.
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MariaG
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I found an article on this from CA.
You may find it interesting:shrug:From This Rock
By Fr. Brian W. Harrison, O.S. The Church and Torture
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Teflon93
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Given the numbers of people (Protestants of other confessions as well as Catholics) tortured and killed by the Reformers, needless to say Protestant teaching has changed on the torture and death penalty issues.
A good thing too, given America’s past history of discrimination against Catholics, a consequence of her Puritan founding.
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bobzills
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Yes. According to the article:I found an article on this from CA.
From This Rock
By Fr. Brian W. Harrison, O.S. The Church and Torture
“But all the popes and the majority of theologians up until the eighteenth century (including even the great moralist and Doctor of the Church St. Alphonsus Liguori) continued to endorse confession-extracting torture. It was not until 1816 that a bull of Pope Pius VII finally enjoined all Catholic rulers to abolish this practice.”
So I do not see any reason to retract anything that i have written.
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MariaG
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I did not ask you to retract anything. I just found the article balanced and thought you may be interested.
However, I would like to point out that the endorsement of confession-exacting torture would have fallen under a “practice” of the church. The practice or endorsement of the Church was just the opposite for the first thousand. Like married priests, we can freely disagree or agree with the Church’s practice of not allowing Latin Rite priests to marry.
What I believe Manny was referring to are the dogmas of the Church, not practices.
God Bless,
Maria
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MariaG
Guest
Hi,
FYI,
We are the Catholic Church or CC, not the RCC. To say otherwise is to ignore portions of the Catholic Church who are not of the Latin Rite.
You seem to think that changing a practice in the Church is a significant issue? Can I ask why? Is it that you are confusing dogma and practices?
God Bless,
Maria
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