My #1 reason for not converting...

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my point exactly.
My understanding is that this site is for people who are interested in learning about the Catholic faith to come and to exchange ideas, and information.

Presumably, this means Catholics, and non-Catholics alike, people of good faith.

I never understood that this site was a place for non-Catholics to come to engage in conflict, to do battle with believers, to attack the Catholic Church, to do polemics and protestant debate.

What is the reason you come here?

peace
 
It changs a person for the negative when you are here and witness someone belittling Protestants redundantly over the same negative things most of which are not understood well or untrue altogether. This IS being uncharitable regardless of what anyone says. It is obviously going on unchecked which I am not surprised about either.
I am sorry you view it this way. But this isn’t uncharitable. If you think this is uncharitable, go on CARM and see how the Catholics are called: pagan, satanic, liars… things like that to name a few. That is uncharitable, but in comparison this is charitable. I am sorry if you feel like you are being attacked or anything.

I am gonna randomly quote someone off of CARM to show you charity vs uncharity.

Us here… charitable

Attacks like this: “Well since the Mass is a Satanic offront to God keeping Jesus on the cross “forever” of course it doesnt matter if the ‘god-cookie’ makers are full of sin and corruption.” - Uncharitable.

There is a big difference.

God bless you, BrewMax.

Gabe
 
It changs a person for the negative when you are here and witness someone belittling Protestants redundantly over the same negative things most of which are not understood well or untrue altogether. This IS being uncharitable regardless of what anyone says. It is obviously going on unchecked which I am not surprised about either.
Max, some rhetorical questions to consider: why did you come here? Why are you still here? qui est ce has a point. What, exactly is needling you? If you detect uncharity or sarcasm, part of it is because the keyboard allows no voice inflection. Many things may be asked in all sincerity, but appear negative through the starkness of the printed typeface. Passion is not well expressed on a computer screen. And, passion is just what we feel for the faith. Too often have we engaged in what we thought was an enlightening conversation, only to find that the visitor’s teeth are bared. We get gun shy. Our faith is not our invention. As Paul taught: it has been handed on to us, just as it was handed on to him. The Christian world is full of turmoil and disputes. Who does this please? None other than the one who seeks the destruction of souls. Christ’s Precious Body is shattered into thousands of pieces-none of which agrees completely with any of the others.

In contrast, let’s look at Satan’s body: there is great diversity of evil, unrelenting dedication to doing harm. But, we don’t see childmolesters rising up against bank robbers, drug dealers marching against prostitution, or gang violence against abortionists. Satan’s body is united in evil, while we argue and bicker. If we knew the person or experience that drove you from the faith, we could address exactly that concern. Nothing we believe has been invented. It has been revealed and handed on.

Since we are all here together, let’s understand one another. I have no idea how well catechized you were when you left. I find it hard to believe that you frequently participated in the Sacraments and had a strong devotion to the faith, then suddenly fell away. Possible, though. There is something you felt you could not overcome while remaining in the faith, otherwise, wouldn’t you still be here?

Christ’s peace.
 
I am sorry you view it this way. But this isn’t uncharitable. If you think this is uncharitable, go on CARM and see how the Catholics are called: pagan, satanic, liars… things like that to name a few. That is uncharitable, but in comparison this is charitable. I am sorry if you feel like you are being attacked or anything.
in comparison to hitler, i am a saint too. point being (i’m going to sound like my mom here), who cares what everyone else is doing, it only matters what you do. there are many instances of being uncharitable on this forum (i’m sure i’ve been guilty of it myself and i’ve had to send a few PM’s to rectify situations when i have done wrong). there are many folks on here who relish attacking protestants by using the same tactics protestants use on other sites. misquotes, lack of understanding, etc. all lead to nasty words.

that being said, there are many charitable people and discussions on these boards as well, but don’t try to jusitify the wrong ones by saying they aren’t as bad as somewhere else. wrong is wrong is wrong. degree doesn’t matter. (and let’s not discuss mortal and venial sins based on that comment please).
 
in comparison to hitler, i am a saint too. point being (i’m going to sound like my mom here), who cares what everyone else is doing, it only matters what you do. there are many instances of being uncharitable on this forum (i’m sure i’ve been guilty of it myself and i’ve had to send a few PM’s to rectify situations when i have done wrong). there are many folks on here who relish attacking protestants by using the same tactics protestants use on other sites. misquotes, lack of understanding, etc. all lead to nasty words.

that being said, there are many charitable people and discussions on these boards as well, but don’t try to jusitify the wrong ones by saying they aren’t as bad as somewhere else. wrong is wrong is wrong. degree doesn’t matter. (and let’s not discuss mortal and venial sins based on that comment please).
While I agree with you that we shouldn’t compared ourselves to CARM, I think the point is that Brew has not been censured here as would have been the case if we would have posted our postitions on CARM.

Perhaps there are some threads where Catholics use vitriolic language, I have not seen this on the threads I have visited, mostly Protestantism.

A convert on one of these threads said one of his favorite tactics was to to make provoctive posts and then watch how riled up the Catholics became. I can’t find the post though. It was since Friday.
 
I am sorry you view it this way. But this isn’t uncharitable. If you think this is uncharitable, go on CARM and see how the Catholics are called: pagan, satanic, liars… things like that to name a few. That is uncharitable, but in comparison this is charitable. I am sorry if you feel like you are being attacked or anything.

I am gonna randomly quote someone off of CARM to show you charity vs uncharity.

Us here… charitable

Attacks like this: “Well since the Mass is a Satanic offront to God keeping Jesus on the cross “forever” of course it doesnt matter if the ‘god-cookie’ makers are full of sin and corruption.” - Uncharitable.

There is a big difference.

God bless you, BrewMax.

Gabe
Whate amazes me is how someone could say something like that and still consider himself a Christian! 🤷
 
Max, some rhetorical questions to consider: why did you come here? Why are you still here? qui est ce has a point. What, exactly is needling you? If you detect uncharity or sarcasm, part of it is because the keyboard allows no voice inflection. Many things may be asked in all sincerity, but appear negative through the starkness of the printed typeface. Passion is not well expressed on a computer screen. And, passion is just what we feel for the faith. Too often have we engaged in what we thought was an enlightening conversation, only to find that the visitor’s teeth are bared. We get gun shy. Our faith is not our invention. As Paul taught: it has been handed on to us, just as it was handed on to him. The Christian world is full of turmoil and disputes. Who does this please? None other than the one who seeks the destruction of souls. Christ’s Precious Body is shattered into thousands of pieces-none of which agrees completely with any of the others.

In contrast, let’s look at Satan’s body: there is great diversity of evil, unrelenting dedication to doing harm. But, we don’t see childmolesters rising up against bank robbers, drug dealers marching against prostitution, or gang violence against abortionists. Satan’s body is united in evil, while we argue and bicker. If we knew the person or experience that drove you from the faith, we could address exactly that concern. Nothing we believe has been invented. It has been revealed and handed on.

Since we are all here together, let’s understand one another. I have no idea how well catechized you were when you left. I find it hard to believe that you frequently participated in the Sacraments and had a strong devotion to the faith, then suddenly fell away. Possible, though. There is something you felt you could not overcome while remaining in the faith, otherwise, wouldn’t you still be here?

Christ’s peace.
I guess this proves that you don’t know everything about everybody. You obviously aren’t as sound in your relationship with God as you may think either. I wasn’t nearly as sound in my relationship with God either and that’s why I left.
 
While I agree with you that we shouldn’t compared ourselves to CARM, I think the point is that Brew has not been censured here as would have been the case if we would have posted our postitions on CARM.

Perhaps there are some threads where Catholics use vitriolic language, I have not seen this on the threads I have visited, mostly Protestantism.

A convert on one of these threads said one of his favorite tactics was to to make provoctive posts and then watch how riled up the Catholics became. I can’t find the post though. It was since Friday.
That is because I don’t use sladerous garbage such as this. That just shows how ignorant some folks are about faiths that they are unfamiliar with.
 
I guess this proves that you don’t know everything about everybody. You obviously aren’t as sound in your relationship with God as you may think either. I wasn’t nearly as sound in my relationship with God either and that’s why I left.
Why do you make this assumption about his relationship with God? :confused:

God Bless,
Michael
 
Why do you make this assumption about his relationship with God? :confused:

God Bless,
Michael
because he professes not to understand why not everyone is Roman Catholic. That would lead me to believe that he feels that if you are not Roman Catholic, you could not possibly have a relationship with God.
 
because he professes not to understand why not everyone is Roman Catholic. That would lead me to believe that he feels that if you are not Roman Catholic, you could not possibly have a relationship with God.
Perhaps he can clarify himself in this matter. Not understanding why everyone is not Catholic does not necessarily mean that he is saying that a Protestant cannot possibly have a relationship with God. As Catholics, however, we believe that we benefit of the means God Himself has established to strengthen and deepen that relationship (i.e the sacraments), means that Protestants unfortunately do not have access to (excluding baptism, of course). I still do not understand how you drew that conclusion regarding his relationship with God?

God Bless,
Michael
 
As for when Protestants use words like heretic and blasphemy to describe Catholic doctrine, again, this is a Catholic forum. If you wish to say those things, go elsewhere. I personally have never called anyone a heretic.
my point exactly.
Your point exactly? What that since this is a Catholic forum, that since we believe 100% that the Catholic Church is right, that we have the right to call Protestants heretics but you can’t do the same?

What exactly is your point?

As I said, I personally have never called anyone a heretic. I think it does little good whether it is true or not. Nor am I in a position of authority in the Church so it is not my job to declare who is a heretic and who isn’t.

AGAIN, I see little use in it. Very few use it and, in my opinion, although it maybe objectively true, it ignores the very good advice given at the top of forum rules.

“Love without truth would be blind; truth without love would be like ‘a clanging cymbal’ (I Cor 13: 1).”
– Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Homily

But the point is, any forum you go to that contains religious dialogue, the people who start it have the right to call the others blasphemous, heretics and otherwise if they so choose to. Start your own Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, whatever denomination forum you choose if you wish to be able to be the one who has the right to call others heretics.
 
My understanding is that this site is for people who are interested in learning about the Catholic faith to come and to exchange ideas, and information.

Presumably, this means Catholics, and non-Catholics alike, people of good faith.

I never understood that this site was a place for non-Catholics to come to engage in conflict, to do battle with believers, to attack the Catholic Church, to do polemics and protestant debate.
Suppose we ask the moderators whether this is a debate board or not?

Pragmatically, if you limit the board to people who are already committed to taking a favorable view of Catholicism, I think you’ll destroy the value of this board. One of the reasons so many people who come to this board hostile to Catholicism wind up changing their minds is that they can see that vigorous debate is encouraged here.

Edwin
 
Suppose we ask the moderators whether this is a debate board or not?

Pragmatically, if you limit the board to people who are already committed to taking a favorable view of Catholicism, I think you’ll destroy the value of this board. One of the reasons so many people who come to this board hostile to Catholicism wind up changing their minds is that they can see that vigorous debate is encouraged here.

Edwin
I’ve been waiting for you to come to this thread. What are your reasons?🙂
 
This is simply not true. The truth according to you that is stated without equivocation is ultimately your opinion and the opinions of the Catholic church. It is not the opinion of everybody. When a Protestant challenges a Catholic statement, the Protestant is labeled uncharitable and I have seen this happen countless times. But, when a Catholic refutes something Protestant, it is automatically the unequivocal truth to never be contested rightfully for ever and ever Amen. This isn’t some divine revelation of truth bestowed upon us by the grace of God; it is a blatant double standard.

So many times I have seen Protestants belittled here with statement after statement, but let those Protestants start using words such as heretic and blasphemy to describe Catholic doctrine and then see what happens.
Max! Don’t reduce God’s revealed truth to mere man’s flawed opinion! Just because you disagree with God’s revealed truth does not make it false. Your own expressed philosophy reveals the handicap of Protestantism. It’s not YOU, it’s the limitations of Protestanism. We must disagree with you if we are to be charitible, for to confirm a brother in error is no charity.
 
I guess this proves that you don’t know everything about everybody. You obviously aren’t as sound in your relationship with God as you may think either. I wasn’t nearly as sound in my relationship with God either and that’s why I left.
As Catholics, we “work out (y)our salvation with fear and trembling”. We cannot be so conceited as to assume our salvation. I do not know everything about anything-and very little about a lot. One thing I do know is that it is distressing to see Brewmax become Madmax. If you believe we are in error, if you cannot be persuaded to return, then remain in peace with the assurance that we pray for you.

Christ’s peace.
 
This is simply not true. The truth according to you that is stated without equivocation is ultimately your opinion and the opinions of the Catholic church. It is not the opinion of everybody.
Truth is not an opinion. Read ECF’s. Ignatious was the first one to describe the Early Church Catholic.
When a Protestant challenges a Catholic statement, the Protestant is labeled uncharitable and I have seen this happen countless times.
Maybe I am reading you wrong, but you seem to lable anyone who disagrees with you as uncharitable.
But, when a Catholic refutes something Protestant, it is automatically the unequivocal truth
The Catholic Church is the unequivocal truth.
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BrewMax:
to never be contested rightfully for ever and ever Amen.
The purpose of this Forum is to invite debate and exchange ideas. This furthers understanding. I have learned a LOT here about my own misconceptions of what some Protestants believe.
This isn’t some divine revelation of truth bestowed upon us by the grace of God;
, Oh but it is, and it’s not my opinion. Read the ECF’s.
"The combination “the Catholic Church” (he katholike ekklesia) is found for the first time in the letter of St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans, written about the year 110. The words run: “Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be, even as where Jesus may be, there is the universal [katholike] Church.” " It is the Catholic Church, which under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, determined which NT writings were divinely inspired.
it is a blatant double standard.
to disagree with you is not a double standard.
So many times I have seen Protestants belittled here with statement after statement, but let those Protestants start using words such as heretic and blasphemy to describe Catholic doctrine and then see what happens.
Not that it gives Catholics the right to belittle Protestants, look to your own posts to me where you said I used lies and propoganda (see below). I never called you names, a heretic, blasphemy, but you saw fit to belittle me “I expected this from you.”
 
To be as annoying as possible until someone stops me:p

Edwin
Edwin, I suspect that you are biding your time here until there is nothing left in Episcopalianism to return to. Perfectly OK, since we both have an idea of how patient God has been with us.

Christ’s peace.
 
This is simply not true. The truth according to you that is stated without equivocation is ultimately your opinion and the opinions of the Catholic church. It is not the opinion of everybody. When a Protestant challenges a Catholic statement, the Protestant is labeled uncharitable and I have seen this happen countless times. But, when a Catholic refutes something Protestant, it is automatically the unequivocal truth to never be contested rightfully for ever and ever Amen.
That’s not true. Catholics here criticize each other all the time, and when Catholics do beat up on Protestants, there are often other Catholics who jump on them. This is a remarkably fair-minded, open place to have a religious discussion. It’s not perfect, but that should go without saying.

Edwin
 
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