My #1 reason for not converting...

[qui_est_ce]

Sure, a Protestant pastor can always “get it wrong” when preaching a sermon. In my opinion, this happens most often when the pastor deviates from the prescribed readings for the day, but it can happen at other times also. Of course, error can also be found in homilies preached by Catholic priests…y’all don’t claim the infallability of individual priests last time I looked. I suppose that, perhaps, mistakes may be less likely in the Catholic setting considering that the Catholic Church is a hiearchial church and the oversight of the Bishop could act as rod to keep things straight…in theory at least.

BTW, I agree that the “prosperity gospel” is garbage.

My point was not the homily, but the choosing of verses by the pastor that can lead to error.

So you do have prescribed readings. I do not know your denomination, but I know many nondenom’s do not have prescribed readings.

No, w’all don’t consider our priests infallible.

It’s the Wed before Thanksgiving, nobody is working,

 

[Hellisreal]

Please start a thread on this somewhere to let us know about the upcoming blessing!
Babies bring all faiths together in joy praising God’s glory.

Great point—this passage was featured in last Sunday’s Mass, so a timely one as well.

Baby number one is due in March for us. We believe it was the anointing which blessed us, and can’t wait for the baptism so our beloved deacon gets to do his thing.

 

[rr1213]

It’s the Wed before Thanksgiving, nobody is working,

Yeah…

 

[O.S.Luke]

I’ve also stipulated earlier to the fact that not every priest is a good homilist, and offered one reason why: the homily is not the focus of priesthood.

The homily/sermon is not the focus of the pastorate, either. It’s only 15 minutes on Sunday morning. If anyone can tell me how to make it the focus of my pastrorate, I’d be glad to know. I haven’t found a way to get it under 70-80 hrs a week yet.

And yes, I am still working today.

O+

 

[peary]

The homily/sermon is not the focus of the pastorate, either. It’s only 15 minutes on Sunday morning. If anyone can tell me how to make it the focus of my pastrorate, I’d be glad to know. I haven’t found a way to get it under 70-80 hrs a week yet.

And yes, I am still working today.

O+

I’ve always admired priests who LIVE their sermons and prefer that to their preaching them.

 

[Teflon93]

Sure, a Protestant pastor can always “get it wrong” when preaching a sermon. In my opinion, this happens most often when the pastor deviates from the prescribed readings for the day, but it can happen at other times also. Of course, error can also be found in homilies preached by Catholic priests…y’all don’t claim the infallability of individual priests last time I looked. I suppose that, perhaps, mistakes may be less likely in the Catholic setting considering that the Catholic Church is a hiearchial church and the oversight of the Bishop could act as rod to keep things straight…in theory at least.

No, we definitely don’t claim infallible homilies. And we have our share of priests who really deviate from Church teaching in their homilies, much to the consternation of the faithful—lots of threads to bear that out.

You’ve also raised an excellent point that having prescribed readings for the day helps. A lot of communities (particularly non-denominational) don’t have these to rely upon; that can lead to the problems Christine has highlighted.

 

[Teflon93]

The homily/sermon is not the focus of the pastorate, either. It’s only 15 minutes on Sunday morning. If anyone can tell me how to make it the focus of my pastrorate, I’d be glad to know. I haven’t found a way to get it under 70-80 hrs a week yet.

And yes, I am still working today.

O+

And may God bless you for it, as he’s blessed your flock with you.

I worked today myself, but banking’s less stressful than pastoral care by several orders of magnitude and would probably be a vacation in comparison.

 

[Teflon93]

Thanks, all—didn’t mean to sidetrack us by referencing the baby but certainly appreciate your kind responses.

Likewise, I should note that the best pastoral care we received before our conversion was through our Methodist pastor, Pastor Steve, one of the kindest and most godly men to walk the earth in my opinion. Having been members of various Protestant denominations which did not place as high a priority (heck, some didn’t do it at all) on pastoral care, we really appreciated those which did. If you’re getting great pastoral care in your community, by all means, appreciate it! And be kind to them on Sunday, since sermons are hard to prep and deliver when dog tired from tending the flock.

 

[cbrownell]

I am a recent convert to Catholicism, so I read this post with interest because, if there is one thing I am afraid of it is finding out a deal-breaker too late! But no, still Catholic after reading that post. I came from Anglo-Catholicism (so not far), but the one thing that convinced me was that the Catholic Church was started by Christ himself (what other group can say that?) and the Church remains true to its origins and true to its name, “universal.” The Catholic Church is the one true Church and if people knew that, every Christian, “on fire” or still growing, would become Catholic! The Holy Spirit is the original “on fire Christian” and I can promise you that He is part of the Church–just look at the preponderance of Catholic Saints!!

 

[qui_est_ce]

I am a recent convert to Catholicism, so I read this post with interest because, if there is one thing I am afraid of it is finding out a deal-breaker too late! But no, still Catholic after reading that post. I came from Anglo-Catholicism (so not far), but the one thing that convinced me was that the Catholic Church was started by Christ himself (what other group can say that?) and the Church remains true to its origins and true to its name, “universal.” The Catholic Church is the one true Church and if people knew that, every Christian, “on fire” or still growing, would become Catholic! The Holy Spirit is the original “on fire Christian” and I can promise you that He is part of the Church–just look at the preponderance of Catholic Saints!!

Well said. Thanks for sharing.

I’m at work, just nobody’s working here and on the Forum!

 

[4EVER_Catholic]

The homilies of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI are being collected online—they show up in updates to the “Welcome to the Catholic Church” software package for anyone interested.

And I would say these homilies are AMAZING.

Wondeful, do you have a link for this site? Thank you in advance.

 

[4EVER_Catholic]

Great point—this passage was featured in last Sunday’s Mass, so a timely one as well.

Baby number one is due in March for us. We believe it was the anointing which blessed us, and can’t wait for the baptism so our beloved deacon gets to do his thing.

Congratulations what great news.

 

[Deconi]

I just dropped in and read a few posts here.
Debate can become emotional and contentious. This is understandable when the things debated have great importance to the debaters. For those invloved in this great wave of Catholic apologetics that has emerged in the past decade or so, and who are very enthusiastic about it, be mindful that you may win the debates and accomplish nothing for souls. I have won my share of debates. It is not difficult to refute error if you know how. I have found that a much greater influence with people is not intellectual superiority, but love, or charity. Love is irresistable when it is genuine. Losing an argument only proves that a person did was unable to answer a challenge to his doctrine. That does not prove there is no answer. Do we want to prove our doctrine is true and someone else’s is in error, we are right and they are wrong, or do we want to see souls blessed and receive the benefits of grace? Of course this is not an either/or question. We want both, but how we go about telling the story determines whether it will be accepted or rejected as much as the rightness of the story. You can win all the debates and arguments and drive people away from the truth. Paul says if we do not have love we are clanging gongs. Are we clanging or loving? That is the either/or question.

A gem.

** AMEN **

 

[redrider]

Greetings,
I’m a convert, I’ve been brought up as a Baptist. Was confirmed as an Espcalian at the age of 11. I left the church at the the age of 22.
I attended a Catholic mass with my future wife about 30 years ago. When entering, I started to cry realizing how much I’d missed the Eucharist. That part of my life I had to have back again. So I took instruction and became a Catholic. I’ve never felt a stronger faith than I have right now. Sure I have times I disagree with some of the rules, so I pray for guidence, And usually get good answers.
I hope I haven’t been too lengthy, but I know I’ve made the right choice. As I hope you wil. God Bless.
Red Rider

 

[Deconi]

Greetings,
I’m a convert, I’ve been brought up as a Baptist. Was confirmed as an Espcalian at the age of 11. I left the church at the the age of 22.
I attended a Catholic mass with my future wife about 30 years ago. When entering, I started to cry realizing how much I’d missed the Eucharist. That part of my life I had to have back again. So I took instruction and became a Catholic. I’ve never felt a stronger faith than I have right now. Sure I have times I disagree with some of the rules, so I pray for guidence, And usually get good answers.
I hope I haven’t been too lengthy, but I know I’ve made the right choice. As I hope you wil. God Bless.
Red Rider

Welcome, Red.

That ain’t long enough! Lol

Welcome and God Bless

 

[Gara3987]

Hi,

I know title is provoking. But seriously, I’m not looking for a fight.

There are many things in Catholicism that I like, and it seems to be the church that makes the most sense compared to others. Dogmas are well-defended and generally plausible.

However, I know so many Christians that are not Catholics (mainly Lutheran Charismatics) yet are on fire for God. I don’t talk about worship-song-i-love-you-jesus on fire, but REALLY on fire, giving their lives to the Lord, trusting in him. And I see God bless them, do miracles through them. I know several prophets and a few that speak in tongues, and some time ago, a miracle somewhat like the one with loaves and fish happened at a church I know.

If I looked solely at teachings and apologetics, I might as well be a Catholic, but when I look at these people, I can’t really believe that the Catholic Church is superior to other churches, as it claims. I can’t believe that these people are not the church.

If these miracles are not due to God, who then? I can’t believe it’s the devil.

• CB

You must understand how the devil operates. One thing that the head Exorcist Priest Father Amorth has stated in an interview was “His (the devil) strategy is always along the same lines. I have told him this and he admits it. He makes people believe that hell does not exist, that sin does not exist, and that he is nothing but one more experience to try out. Concupiscence, success and power are the three great passions on which Satan relies.”

In fact we must remember that The Devil was once an angel of light and can take on that form at any time, in fact the devil may take the form of even our Lord Jesus, or Even Our Blessed Mother Mary. Saint Teresa Of Avila asked our Lord how would she know that it would be our Lord and not the devil she spoke with. Which she was even worried that it may be the devil.

The only way the the devil can do this is because God alone allows it, for what ever His reason, it is not for us to ask. The Devil is capable of more than most believe or want to believe. On October 13, 1884, Pope Leo XIII had a vision.

Exactly 33 years to the day prior to the great Miracle of the Sun in Fatima, that is, on October 13, 1884, Pope Leo XIII had a remarkable vision. When the aged Pontiff had finished celebrating Mass in his private Vatican Chapel, attended by a few Cardinals and members of the Vatican staff, he suddenly stopped at the foot of the altar. He stood there for about 10 minutes, as if in a trance, his face ashen white. Then, going immediately from the Chapel to his office, he composed the prayer to St. Michael, with instructions it be said after all Low Masses everywhere. When asked what had happened, he explained that, as he was about to leave the foot of the altar, he suddenly heard voices - two voices, one kind and gentle, the other guttural and harsh. They seemed to come from near the tabernacle. As he listened, he heard the following conversation:

The guttural voice, the voice of Satan in his pride, boasted to Our Lord:
“I can destroy your Church.”

The gentle voice of Our Lord:
“You can? Then go ahead and do so.”

Satan:
“To do so, I need more time and more power.”

Our Lord:
"How much time? How much power?

Satan:
“75 to 100 years, and a greater power over those
who will give themselves over to my service.”

Our Lord:
“You have the time, you will have the power.
Do with them what you will.”

Let us think about this for a minute. This happened in 1884. The devil said he needed 75 to100 years. Well, 75 years from 1884 is 1959. Wow, what a coincidence that it was on January 25, 1959, that John XXIII publicly summoned the Second Vatican Council.

Remember that after the vision, Pope Leo XIII immediately wrote the Prayer to St. Michael to help us overcome the devil in his quest. He instructed that it be said after every low Mass.

One of the first changes to come from Vatican II, was the deletion of the Leonine Prayers which included the prayer to St. Michael. These prayers were eliminated in 1964, the 80th year of the devils 75 - 100 years needed to destroy the Catholic Church. It would seem that this would be the time to especially say that prayer, not to delete it.

The 100th year would be 1984. By 1984 John Paul II had let the devil develope a church that is called Catholic, but is not.
This is obvious from his teachings.

The Rest of the information is located @ On October 13, 1884, Pope Leo XIII had a vision.

The Devil will give anything to keep your friends and those around from seeing the truth, That the Roman Catholic Church is the One True Church founded by our Lord Jesus Christ, God Himself.

 

[DebChris]

I scanned through the last posts which seem to focus on the effectiveness or lack of effectiveness of various preachers and homilists.
At the monastery in Conyers, a homily is not necessarily given after the gospel. Instead, the Word proclaimed in the gospel is allowed to resonate within the soul of the listener. It is not the length of the homily that is important. What is important is how the homily reflects and explains the Word of God. Personally, I have heard very few poor homilies.

 

[MariaG]

I’ve heard plenty of Protestant sermons in my life time in plenty of Protestant Churches, including the Methodist, Episcopal, Presybterian, Baptist and Lutheran Churches among others. The sermons have ranged from absolutely amazing and convicting teaching to worthless babble. Most were ok. I have also heard a decent number of homilies from Catholic priests. Some were ok, most were pretty meaningless and none were great. I suppose that the focus in the Catholic Church has been on the Eucharist rather than the homily and, as a consequence, the homily has often suffered. The quality of homilies is an area where, in my opinion, the Catholic Church needs improvement. If I recall correctly, it is also an area where the US Bishops and/or the Vatican have recognized that there needs to be improvement.

I scanned through the last posts which seem to focus on the effectiveness or lack of effectiveness of various preachers and homilists.
At the monastery in Conyers, a homily is not necessarily given after the gospel. Instead, the Word proclaimed in the gospel is allowed to resonate within the soul of the listener. It is not the length of the homily that is important. What is important is how the homily reflects and explains the Word of God. Personally, I have heard very few poor homilies.

I was going to agree with rr1213 from a personal level. But as I started to think about it, out of the three priests I have heard more than once and the 3 pastors, it is a dead heat. 2 out of 3 were/are good in both Catholic and non.

But interesting, my PERCEPTION is still to react with agreement to rr1213 that overall, protestants tend to have better homilies than Catholics.

I wonder if it is because in the Protestant churches I always underlined and took notes, so it FELT as if I got more/better sermons?

Don’t know but as odd as it seems, even though my personal experience does not in fact support the notion that, in general, Protestants have better sermons, I haven’t shaken the notion that they do:shrug:

 

[rr1213]

Sermons and congregational singing. For better or for worse, these are areas where many Protestant Churches excel and many Catholic parishes could use improvement.

 

[redrider]

Greetings,
I think that the reason Protestant sermons are sometimes better than Catholic homalies is, most of the homalies are read rather than spoken from the heart. I can understand this, because a lot of your country priests have to say more than one mass. They have to serve more than one parish; so the time spent on homilies has to be cut short. Times are tough in the country. NOT ENOUGH PRIESTS.
GB, Redrider