My atheist boyfriend and I

[flick26]

Hi all, I’m new to this board and I’m just looking for some objective views on my situation and I apologise in advance for the long post!

I’m 22 years old and I’ve been with my boyfriend for just over two years. He is an atheist, always has been but doesn’t deny the possibility (even if it is very small in his opinion) of the existence of a God. But he believes that all religion is man-made, destructive and is the cause of all worldly problems and held (or continues to hold in some ways) scientific research back. As a Catholic who is very sure of her faith, I disagree with all of his aforementioned views.

Every now and again, the topic of religion or scientific topics like evolution come about and it always ends in quite a heated discussion. Sometimes, I really hate that he disagrees with me and I get angry with him. But he has yet to get angry with me. Although, he has never been disrespectful to my Catholic religion or my beliefs in God (he has actually only ever been curious despite the fact that he despises religion), he is very, very, very stubborn with his beliefs and some times twists my arguments and just won’t accept my opinion.

When our relationship started getting serious at around 6 months in, we seriously discussed the future of our relationship in relation to religion and the upbringing of any children we might have. If we saw any problems, we would split up right there and then to avoid further hurt. He did not oppose to me bringing up our children in Catholicism (this included attending church, baptism, he was about dubious regarding their first holy communion) but stressed that they should be aware of other religions or the concept of no religion at all and they can make their choice when they reach that age (they could either be confirmed into the Catholic church or go down a different path). I agreed with this, as I want my children to be entirely sure of their faith and not feel like they are forced into my religion as many of my peers feel. (My parents taught me about Catholicism but never forced anything upon me and I feel that this ultimately made my faith stronger than it would have been if I felt like they wanted me to.)

Of course, it would be more ideal if I married a Catholic man but I have fallen in love with my boyfriend and there is no one else that I could ever imagine spending my life with. He treats me so well, he is loving and supportive and the most important thing is that he never patronises my beliefs or tries to convert me to atheism.
But here is the problem, our views on religion and science (e.g. the purpose of evolution) are so different and we always agree to disagree. But is this how I want my children to be raised? In a household where mom and dad can’t even agree on this huge topic? Mom believes in God but dad doesn’t really and doesn’t like religion? I want my children to grow up in a solid household with firm beliefs. If we are married, who will I turn to for spiritual advice? If I lose God, who will help me find him? Apart from my father and my mother, no one it seems. This is causing me great conflict but is my worry worth me destroying my entire relationship? I have always guided myself with my faith, none of my friends were Catholic, in times of hardship with my faith I read books and the Bible and searched the internet. I have never relied on anyone.

So does this mean I should break up with my boyfriend of 2 years? I have invested my whole heart into this relationship and I have never met anyone who makes me feel happier. But I feel so conflicted and I wonder if we will run into trouble ten years down the line.

I wonder if anyone could offer me some advice or anecdotal stories or just anything really. Much appreciated, A

 

[1ke]

When our relationship started getting serious at around 6 months in, we seriously discussed the future of our relationship in relation to religion and the upbringing of any children we might have. If we saw any problems, we would split up right there and then to avoid further hurt. He did not oppose to me bringing up our children in Catholicism (this included attending church, baptism, he was about dubious regarding their first holy communion) but stressed that they should be aware of other religions or the concept of no religion at all and they can make their choice when they reach that age (they could either be confirmed into the Catholic church or go down a different path). I agreed with this, as I want my children to be entirely sure of their faith and not feel like they are forced into my religion as many of my peers feel.

OK, stop right here.

If you baptize your children Catholic, they ARE Catholic. There is no “choosing” when they are older. There is no “choosing” to be confirmed or not. You misunderstand Confirmation if you believe it to be some sort of “choice” to be Catholic. The bishop does the confirming, and what he is confirming is the candidate’s baptism. All Catholics are obligated to receive Confirmation upon the call of the bishop at the appropriate age. Together Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist form the three Sacraments of Initiation.

Baptizing your child Catholic is an obligation of a Catholic parent, and a requirement to receive a dispensation from your bishop to marry an unbaptized person. Baptizing your child Catholic binds that child FOREVER to the Catholic Church AND to Canon Law. You place upon them all the obligations of a Catholic. So, there is no such thing as teaching them a plurality of religious beliefs and letting them choose.

You and he both need to understand this FULLY. He needs to be aware that undermining the child’s faith with atheism is not acceptable.

Of course, it would be more ideal if I married a Catholic man but I have fallen in love with my boyfriend and there is no one else that I could ever imagine spending my life with.

Yeah, I thought the same thing when I was 21, in college, and dating my atheists boyfriend who I thought was the only man I would ever love. Such is young love. You move past it, and you get over it and then you find what God has in store for you if you allow him to be the Lord of your entire life.

I am happily married to the most wonderful Catholic man, a man I know God truly gave me as the ultimate gift in my life. No way does atheist-boy compare in any way to this Godly man.

He treats me so well, he is loving and supportive and the most important thing is that he never patronises my beliefs or tries to convert me to atheism.

Not something to base a marriage on.

. But is this how I want my children to be raised? In a household where mom and dad can’t even agree on this huge topic? Mom believes in God but dad doesn’t really and doesn’t like religion?

No.

I want my children to grow up in a solid household with firm beliefs. If we are married, who will I turn to for spiritual advice? If I lose God, who will help me find him? Apart from my father and my mother, no one it seems. So does this mean I should break up with my boyfriend of 2 years?

I think you know the answer to this. An atheist husband is not compatible with your vision for faith, family, and marriage.

I have invested my whole heart into this relationship and I have never met anyone who makes me feel happier. But I feel so conflicted and I wonder if we will run into trouble ten years down the line.

Yes, you learned the lesson the hard way. So did I. I am sorry you have invested so much time and emotion into a relationship that has had an elephant in the living room the entire time. You have avoided it for the most part, and you cannot avoid it any more.

I wonder if anyone could offer me some advice or anecdotal stories or just anything really. Much appreciated, A

No one can tell you what to do. Anecdotally, you will get many people on here who will tell you that they are married to a non-believer and that it “works”. I would suggest that any mixed faith marriage “works” by way of compromises that one or the other makes. Either one or the other isn’t seriously practicing their faith/non-faith and that one lets the other take the lead with the children and religion.

Two people who are serious about their faith, or lack of it, are not going to have a peaceful, successful marriage. How can they? One will have to compromise a part of who they are and what they believe OR live in strife.

No way would I wish that on my worst enemy. I can only tell you that I believe if you put God first in all things, you will grrow in holiness and if marriage is your vocation you will find a man with whom you are equally yoked and who God has in store for you.

 

[flick26]

OK, stop right here.

If you baptize your children Catholic, they ARE Catholic. There is no “choosing” when they are older. There is no “choosing” to be confirmed or not. You misunderstand Confirmation if you believe it to be some sort of “choice” to be Catholic. The bishop does the confirming, and what he is confirming is the candidate’s baptism. All Catholics are obligated to receive Confirmation upon the call of the bishop at the appropriate age. Together Baptism, Confirmation and Eucharist form the three Sacraments of Initiation.

Baptizing your child Catholic is an obligation of a Catholic parent, and a requirement to receive a dispensation from your bishop to marry an unbaptized person. Baptizing your child Catholic binds that child FOREVER to the Catholic Church AND to Canon Law. You place upon them all the obligations of a Catholic. So, there is no such thing as teaching them a plurality of religious beliefs and letting them choose.

You and he both need to understand this FULLY. He needs to be aware that undermining the child’s faith with atheism is not acceptable.

Yeah, I thought the same thing when I was 21, in college, and dating my atheists boyfriend who I thought was the only man I would ever love. Such is young love. You move past it, and you get over it and then you find what God has in store for you if you allow him to be the Lord of your entire life.

I am happily married to the most wonderful Catholic man, a man I know God truly gave me as the ultimate gift in my life. No way does atheist-boy compare in any way to this Godly man.

Not something to base a marriage on.

No.

I think you know the answer to this. An atheist husband is not compatible with your vision for faith, family, and marriage.

Yes, you learned the lesson the hard way. So did I. I am sorry you have invested so much time and emotion into a relationship that has had an elephant in the living room the entire time. You have avoided it for the most part, and you cannot avoid it any more.

No one can tell you what to do. Anecdotally, you will get many people on here who will tell you that they are married to a non-believer and that it “works”. I would suggest that any mixed faith marriage “works” by way of compromises that one or the other makes. Either one or the other isn’t seriously practicing their faith/non-faith and that one lets the other take the lead with the children and religion.

Two people who are serious about their faith, or lack of it, are not going to have a peaceful, successful marriage. How can they? One will have to compromise a part of who they are and what they believe OR live in strife.

No way would I wish that on my worst enemy. I can only tell you that I believe if you put God first in all things, you will grrow in holiness and if marriage is your vocation you will find a man with whom you are equally yoked and who God has in store for you.

I do apologise, I always thought that confirmation was your choice to confirm your faith. Unfortunately, I was never called by my bishop, I had to ask and apply to attend confirmation classes. This is what lead me to the assumption that it was my choice. Just out of interest, what happens with those who do not have their confirmation? Or those who were baptised but never practise their faith or “pretend” to be Catholic or even choose to become atheist later in life? Is there a procedure to “undo” their baptism?

Thank you for your reply. I know that I am young and I have no idea what’s ahead of me but letting him go is the most difficult thing I can imagine. I agree with you, I definitely tried to avoid this topic and pushed it to the back of my mind and whenever it was brought up I guess I looked at it with rose-tinted glasses and assumed everything would be fine. But in the event that we do marry (which I know will not be a sacramental marriage), is this a sin in the eyes of God?

 

[Allegra]

Assuming he has never been married before and he acknowledges that you are required to raise your children in the Catholic faith, you will probably be granted a dispensation to marry this man. However, I really fear for your future if you do. A husband is supposed to be the spiritual leader of the family. The Christian view of marriage requires that a wife submit to her husband and her husband submit to the will of God. I just don’t see how that equation can work when the husband is a non-believer. Besides that, who will be there for you when your faith is failing? (You may think that will never happen to you but few manage to go their whole lives without their faith being challenged.) A person needs a spouse to be the strong one in such a situation. It would be very difficult for you if you have to carry your whole family spiritually with no help from your husband. (Or possibly, even hindrance from him) Alot of people will tell you that their special atheist eventually came to Christ after they were married and yes, that sort of thing does happen. But it is a pretty big risk to take.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Research has shown that even if the mother is devout, it is the FATHER who has more influence over the spiritual direction of the children. So if your boyfriend is an atheist, your kids would have an uphill battle to stay practicing Catholics (assuming he keeps his word - many don’t). The whole “let them decide” garbage means that the kids effectively grow up with NO FAITH whatsoever and it’s really hard to create that for yourself once you are an adult. In the interest of “fairness” or whatever, the parent who believes “The child can decide for himself” goes about tearing down ALL faiths equally, leaving the child with nothing to draw upon. It’s a very bad thing.

Please don’t risk this - it is your children’s eternal futures we are talking about!

 

[flick26]

Research has shown that even if the mother is devout, it is the FATHER who has more influence over the spiritual direction of the children. So if your boyfriend is an atheist, your kids would have an uphill battle to stay practicing Catholics (assuming he keeps his word - many don’t). The whole “let them decide” garbage means that the kids effectively grow up with NO FAITH whatsoever and it’s really hard to create that for yourself once you are an adult. In the interest of “fairness” or whatever, the parent who believes “The child can decide for himself” goes about tearing down ALL faiths equally, leaving the child with nothing to draw upon. It’s a very bad thing.

Please don’t risk this - it is your children’s eternal futures we are talking about!

My boyfriend’s father is in fact a devout Christian (not Catholic though and he never raised his children in the religion, so he was not even baptised) and his family effectively disowned him for marrying an atheist as my boyfriend’s mother is an atheist. But I suppose in this case, he just followed his mother’s path.

I’m not sure I agree with your point in bold. To be truthful, religion only came into my life when I was nine years old. As untraditional as it sounds (and I am a little embarrassed), religion only played a major part in my life from the age of 10 and from there I developed my own faith. I had no real (name removed by moderator)ut from my parents (who were also Catholic), just a few mentions of God and the Bible. No one except the church and my sunday classes created a spiritual environment for me.
By the age of 15, my faith was undoubtedly stronger than the vast majority of my peers at my Catholic high school who had been brought up from a young age in Catholicism. These kids didn’t attend church outside or inside of school, they were never interested in our Bible studies, they just went along with what their parents had told them. They are just Catholic by name and that was something that really annoyed me and still does to this day. Maybe it was because we were teens but heir religion had no significance in their life. But I was also a teen and religion was a vital component of myself.

I really don’t want my children to end up like this. So, I figured by teaching them about Catholicism (why would I tear down my own faith?!) but not forcing them to do whatever I say without understanding what they are doing and why, I would raise children who turned out like myself. But I am only in my early twenties and children will not be coming until a decade or so. In time, I will probably figure out the best method to ensure my children don’t live as “Catholics” by name. I would rather my children be true, believing Catholics or don’t be one at all.

 

[1ke]

I do apologise, I always thought that confirmation was your choice to confirm your faith. Unfortunately, I was never called by my bishop, I had to ask and apply to attend confirmation classes. This is what lead me to the assumption that it was my choice.

The Bishop doesn’t call you personally, by calling on the phone or sending a letter. The “call” of the bishop is through the Church. Therefore it is through the priest and the religious education program-- they prepare you for confirmation and then the Bishop determines when/where Confirmation takes place for the youth of the parish.

If your parents did not have your enrolled in religious education then perhaps that is why you were not confirmed with the others at the appropriate time and instead had to attend a class for adults or had to ask about it.

That aside, I am glad you received Confirmation and the graces that flow from it.

Just out of interest, what happens with those who do not have their confirmation?

Well, their sacraments of initiation remain incomplete and they do not receive the graces Christ intends for them. From a canon law perspective, one is to be confirmed before marriage or ordination, so they may find themselves in need of confirmation class and Confirmation before receiving either of those sacraments. Spiritually, they have not received the gifts of the Holy Spirit sacramentally and the graces that come with the Sacrament.

Or those who were baptised but never practise their faith or “pretend” to be Catholic or even choose to become atheist later in life?

They remain a Catholic, albeit one who is in an objective state of grave sin. Of course, we cannot judge whether or not they are actually in a state of mortal sin because we don’t know the state of their souls and their culpability in their decision to leave the Church (i.e. out of ignorance, or willfully with full knowledge, etc). We do know they place their souls in jeopardy and cut themselves off from the sacramental grace of Christ. We pray for them to return, and God awaits their return.

Is there a procedure to “undo” their baptism?

No, baptism changes us permanently. It removes original sin, washes away any actual sin, regenerates our soul, and incorporates us into the Body of Christ, the Church. It is an indelible mark on our souls and cannot be repeated nor can it be “undone”. The same is true for Confirmation-- it too imparts a character on the soul and cannot be repeated.

Thank you for your reply. I know that I am young and I have no idea what’s ahead of me but letting him go is the most difficult thing I can imagine. I agree with you, I definitely tried to avoid this topic and pushed it to the back of my mind and whenever it was brought up I guess I looked at it with rose-tinted glasses and assumed everything would be fine.

I hope you do not think I am making light of your age. I am not. My own ordeal with the atheist boyfriend was very painful and when that relationship ended I mourned it for a long time. It was very hard. It seemed like my world was upside down. It hurt deeply. I didn’t date again for three years.

But, the old adage time heals all wounds is true. From my vantage point it all seems so long ago, and so silly now. Of course it wasn’t silly at the time, but I gotta tell you that a few years and some distance and perspective really makes you go, “what on Earth was I thinking???”

But in the event that we do marry (which I know will not be a sacramental marriage), is this a sin in the eyes of God?

Not a sin, per se.

The Church discourages marriages between Catholics and the unbaptized-- particularly someone who is athesit and hostile to the faith. Paul writes about unequally yoked individuals and warns Christian widows against remarrying unbelievers.

So, no it isn’t a sin, but it is terribly imprudent. God gives us the help of the Holy Spirit to grow in virtue. The cardinal virtues are prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance.

Prudence would tell us that entering into an intimate relationship with a person who rejects God and his Church is not prudent.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

My boyfriend’s father is in fact a devout Christian (not Catholic though and he never raised his children in the religion, so he was not even baptised) and his family effectively disowned him for marrying an atheist as my boyfriend’s mother is an atheist. But I suppose in this case, he just followed his mother’s path.

I’m not sure I agree with your point in bold. To be truthful, religion only came into my life when I was nine years old. As untraditional as it sounds (and I am a little embarrassed), religion only played a major part in my life from the age of 10 and from there I developed my own faith. I had no real (name removed by moderator)ut from my parents (who were also Catholic), just a few mentions of God and the Bible. No one except the church and my sunday classes created a spiritual environment for me.
By the age of 15, my faith was undoubtedly stronger than the vast majority of my peers at my Catholic high school who had been brought up from a young age in Catholicism. These kids didn’t attend church outside or inside of school, they were never interested in our Bible studies, they just went along with what their parents had told them. They are just Catholic by name and that was something that really annoyed me and still does to this day. Maybe it was because we were teens but heir religion had no significance in their life. But I was also a teen and religion was a vital component of myself.

I really don’t want my children to end up like this. So, I figured by teaching them about Catholicism (why would I tear down my own faith?!) but not forcing them to do whatever I say without understanding what they are doing and why, I would raise children who turned out like myself. But I am only in my early twenties and children will not be coming until a decade or so. In time, I will probably figure out the best method to ensure my children don’t live as “Catholics” by name. I would rather my children be true, believing Catholics or don’t be one at all.

Your case is different from the statistics. Of course there will always be exceptions, but IN GENERAL, letting children decide for themselves which religion they want to participate in, leads to atheism.

Also, are you really thinking of not having children until you are in your 30’s? because many young women put off having children until they feel “ready,” only to find out that their fertile years are gone. I suggest that when you do marry, you have children as soon as possible (since our faith demands that we be open to life when we are married).

 

[Cyclone_Ranger]

An interfaith (or faith/no faith) marriage is HARD. It’s so much easier when it’s just the two of you and you can agree to disagree. But when the kids ask what happens to grandma after she dies, or you’re “forcing” the kids to go to Mass instead of watching cartoons on Sunday, it gets tough.

There may come a time when the kids ask about unbelievers and why daddy doesn’t believe. If he answers them, then he’s essentially telling them that your faith is untrue. Ditto for when you say why you do believe in God. One of our kids follows my faith, while the other does not. He won’t get baptized, and I can’t “force” him until he makes his own decision.

I’m going to echo what someone said above, that at 22, you are still young. Like the person above, I’m not saying you’re immature or putting you down. I was thinking the other day about a breakup I had at age 22. It was 15 years ago, and I still remember the exact date. It was like the world was ending. After a year, it still hurt. After 2, I was ok. After 5, I was happy and didn’t care about the breakup. After 7 or so years, I was so happy that I didn’t end up with him. I’m now super grateful that I didn’t end up with him.

 

[joanofarc2008]

For all the reasons 1ke mentioned and hearing the experiences of others I will give you some advice:

Don’t do it, run, now. Let him find someone who shares his beliefs. You find someone who shares yours.

 

[Julian0404]

Mart Twain was atheist and he married a christian woman who was intent on converting him. When she died, she was also atheist as his strong personality and arguments caused her to lose the faith.
You are already agreeing with this man on “non-christian concepts” regarding how to raise any future children. He has already swayed you from the foundation of your true faith.
Walk away, you have already started to surrender to please him, just walk away - he knows the reason, this is no long good bye, your soul is in danger if you continue to confuse your faith with his “reasoning”.

 

[Gordon_Shaw]

Hello, Ms. A.
While searching some material on something else, I came across this blog in which you participated. My wife and I are elderly Protestants who care about people regardless of their religious preferences. Neither of us were married until we were around fifty (two decades ago)–two teachers, now retired. See Gordon Shaw on Facebook. My life is open and I seek Christ and his Glory.

I have seen this situation result in good and bad results. I would always say never marry an atheist but I do understand love and in my earlier life “dated” many sorts of religious and non-religious preferences. God will give you the man He wants you to have when the time comes. Maybe this man is that man. Paul, in 1Cor 7:16 says that once you are married, it is best to remain if possible, with your spouse: For how knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband ? Or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife ? (Douay-Rheims)

I have no doubt that he is a find young man, in most regards, or you would not be seeing him. You might in the end, marry him. However, you will have many problems attached to the fact that he is not a believer. I may be too harsh, not knowing the young man, but many times the atheist husband (or wife) may become contemptuous of your beliefs. He may, as time goes on, resent the fact that you are desirous to raise your children in any belief system, for which also he may have contempt.

I would again remind you of something else God said through Paul. 2 Co 6:14-15: 14 Bear not the yoke with unbelievers. For what participation hath justice with injustice? Or what fellowship hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath the faithful with the unbeliever? (Douay-Rheims)

So yes, if you marry a man who is quite tolerant and open, I emphasize open, you may have a wonderful marriage. If he is not tolerant and perhaps somewhat antagonistic toward God and His Christ, you may run into many, many problems, and much heartache.

I would recommend you see your Priest, who I think will agree with me wholeheartedly, and ask for as many counseling sessions as he your Priest thinks fit to see what reason your beau has against God. You know, regarding religious wars down through history, we must remember that no matter what that all men (and women) ourselves included, are sinners who muddle along through life. I spent an entire career teaching American and World History and tell about a few Atillas, Hitlers, Stalins and many others. You can see how the world becomes WITHOUT religion, particularly the religion of Jesus Christ.

When I complete this letter, I am going to pray for you both; for your momentous decision and for God to turn his heart to the Lord.

Best wishes in your walk in Jesus Christ.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Couple of other questions as this will impact your marriage:

How does he feel about contraception/NFP?

How does he feel about getting married in the Church?

Does he understand that pre-engagement sessions with a priest will be a requirement?

How has he been about chastity prior to marriage?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

They remain a Catholic, albeit one who is in an objective state of grave sin. Of course, we cannot judge whether or not they are actually in a state of mortal sin because we don’t know the state of their souls and their culpability in their decision to leave the Church (i.e. out of ignorance, or willfully with full knowledge, etc). We do know they place their souls in jeopardy and cut themselves off from the sacramental grace of Christ. We pray for them to return, and God awaits their return.

No, baptism changes us permanently. It removes original sin, washes away any actual sin, regenerates our soul, and incorporates us into the Body of Christ, the Church. It is an indelible mark on our souls and cannot be repeated nor can it be “undone”. The same is true for Confirmation-- it too imparts a character on the soul and cannot be repeated.

Hm, someone said that before and I was baffled by it then, too. I thought you could leave the Faith without being “jumped out,” so to speak.

Can one not undo baptism by renouncing their baptism in words and formally expressing their rejection of the Holy Spirit and all of its works?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

The whole “let them decide” garbage means that the kids effectively grow up with NO FAITH whatsoever and it’s really hard to create that for yourself once you are an adult. In the interest of “fairness” or whatever, the parent who believes “The child can decide for himself” goes about tearing down ALL faiths equally, leaving the child with nothing to draw upon. It’s a very bad thing.

Please don’t risk this - it is your children’s eternal futures we are talking about!

I don’t get it. If we’re analyzing all faiths on equal ground, would not Catholicism stand out? So why the worries?

What do you mean by “creating” a faith?

What is it about being an “adult” that makes Catholicism “really hard”? Plenty of adults convert to the Church.

Since our God has gifted us with free will, why insist so firmly on visiting the choice of parents upon the children with regards to something like this?

I don’t know about you, but I’m not particularly fond of the other religions doing this, so I can’t let my own off the hook, either.

 

[flick26]

Mart Twain was atheist and he married a christian woman who was intent on converting him. When she died, she was also atheist as his strong personality and arguments caused her to lose the faith.
You are already agreeing with this man on “non-christian concepts” regarding how to raise any future children. He has already swayed you from the foundation of your true faith.
Walk away, you have already started to surrender to please him, just walk away - he knows the reason, this is no long good bye, your soul is in danger if you continue to confuse your faith with his “reasoning”.

I just want to make it clear that I have not surrendered to ANY of his concepts. My provisional idea on how to raise my future children was a decision I made long before I met him and it’s a decision that I have justified in previous posts. I think it is unfair that you are just assuming this.

 

[flick26]

Couple of other questions as this will impact your marriage:

How does he feel about contraception/NFP?

How does he feel about getting married in the Church?

Does he understand that pre-engagement sessions with a priest will be a requirement?

How has he been about chastity prior to marriage?

We have discussed contraception (I know the Catholic teaching says be open to life but I really don’t want more than two children) and also agreed on no pre-marital sex. He does not mind getting married in the Church (must be down to some of his dad’s influence) but it was actually him who warned me that the marriage would not be sacramental and not valid in the eyes of Catholicism and God(?). Yes he knows and he is a virgin.

 

[LilyM]

Hm, someone said that before and I was baffled by it then, too. I thought you could leave the Faith without being “jumped out,” so to speak.

Can one not undo baptism by renouncing their baptism in words and formally expressing their rejection of the Holy Spirit and all of its works?

Nope. The analogy I use is your biological parents. They give you and any biological siblings DNA. You have it from the moment you are conceived.

No matter what you try to do to cut ties in later life if you don’t like them - move away, change your name, send them letters formally severing all ties or dance on their graves - you cannot sever that DNA link.

And that relationship will always carry certain implications and responsibilities - you cannot ever marry a biological parent or sibling as you can a non-relative, for example.

 

[Cinette]

Hi all, I’m new to this board and I’m just looking for some objective views on my situation and I apologise in advance for the long post!
…

When our relationship started getting serious at around 6 months in, we seriously discussed the future of our relationship in relation to religion and the upbringing of any children we might have. If we saw any problems, we would split up right there and then to avoid further hurt. He did not oppose to me bringing up our children in Catholicism (this included attending church, baptism, he was about dubious regarding their first holy communion) but stressed that they should be aware of other religions or the concept of no religion at all and they can make their choice when they reach that age (they could either be confirmed into the Catholic church or go down a different path). I agreed with this, as I want my children to be entirely sure of their faith and not feel like they are forced into my religion as many of my peers feel. (My parents taught me about Catholicism but never forced anything upon me and I feel that this ultimately made my faith stronger than it would have been if I felt like they wanted me to.)Your boyfriend sound like a good man to me. Remember that when we reach heaven we are likely to find a number of atheists there too! Of course that implies that they convert even if it is at the moment of death! My husband was an atheist and at one time he was a communist sympathiser (lived under fascism) His parents were also communist sympathisers and atheists although his Mother changed a few years before her death.

Of course, it would be more ideal if I married a Catholic man but I have fallen in love with my boyfriend and there is no one else that I could ever imagine spending my life with. This might be part of God’s plan for you both! You have your work cut out for you! He treats me so well, he is loving and supportive and the most important thing is that he never patronises my beliefs or tries to convert me to atheism.
But here is the problem, our views on religion and science (e.g. the purpose of evolution) are so different and we always agree to disagree. But is this how I want my children to be raised? In a household where mom and dad can’t even agree on this huge topic? Mom believes in God but dad doesn’t really and doesn’t like religion? I want my children to grow up in a solid household with firm beliefs. If we are married, who will I turn to for spiritual advice? If I lose God, who will help me find him? Apart from my father and my mother, no one it seems. This is causing me great conflict but is my worry worth me destroying my entire relationship? I have always guided myself with my faith, none of my friends were Catholic, in times of hardship with my faith I read books and the Bible and searched the internet. I have never relied on anyone.I think you need to study more about the Faith so that you can instruct your children. Apologetics is terrible important as it gives you the reasons why you believe what you believe. When I returned to the Church after 27 years I realised that had I been FULLY catechised I would never have left the Church. With this tool you would assist in the proper formation of your children and, who knows, your husband could become interested! Ultimately it is the Holy Spirit’s job!

So does this mean I should break up with my boyfriend of 2 years? *No!*I have invested my whole heart into this relationship and I have never met anyone who makes me feel happier. But I feel so conflicted and I wonder if we will run into trouble ten years down the line. You need to sort this out with him. You must tell him that you have a dilemma and that you so want to be with him because you love him and right now you trust him also. That he must agree to help you to raise the children as you know to be right. You won’t force them but intend to present them with the truth. Remember that our Catholic faith is based on Faith and Reason. That should persuade your boyfriend that your approach will be reasonable and scientific although Faith is a mystery.

I wonder if anyone could offer me some advice or anecdotal stories or just anything really. Much appreciated, A

*My husband converted after over 30 years of marriage and is a faithful, committed Catholic who is a daily communicant. That could happen to your husband also. I never insisted, never tried to persuade him. I prayed. He read different books from me - his were scientific. *

 

[Cinette]

My boyfriend’s father is in fact a devout Christian (not Catholic though and he never raised his children in the religion, so he was not even baptised) and his family effectively disowned him for marrying an atheist as my boyfriend’s mother is an atheist. But I suppose in this case, he just followed his mother’s path.

I’m not sure I agree with your point in bold. To be truthful, religion only came into my life when I was nine years old. As untraditional as it sounds (and I am a little embarrassed), religion only played a major part in my life from the age of 10 and from there I developed my own faith. I had no real (name removed by moderator)ut from my parents (who were also Catholic), just a few mentions of God and the Bible. No one except the church and my sunday classes created a spiritual environment for me.
By the age of 15, my faith was undoubtedly stronger than the vast majority of my peers at my Catholic high school who had been brought up from a young age in Catholicism. These kids didn’t attend church outside or inside of school, they were never interested in our Bible studies, they just went along with what their parents had told them. They are just Catholic by name and that was something that really annoyed me and still does to this day. Maybe it was because we were teens but heir religion had no significance in their life. But I was also a teen and religion was a vital component of myself.

I really don’t want my children to end up like this. So, I figured by teaching them about Catholicism (why would I tear down my own faith?!) but not forcing them to do whatever I say without understanding what they are doing and why, I would raise children who turned out like myself. But I am only in my early twenties and children will not be coming until a decade or so. In time, I will probably figure out the best method to ensure my children don’t live as “Catholics” by name. I would rather my children be true, believing Catholics or don’t be one at all.

*I forgot to mention in my first post that although my ex-atheist husband is now a committed, daily communicant, our children are not even Christian (one out of four is) and my youngest who is a mother herself has never been baptised. So you see the risk? In my case it was my fault. Had I raised my children Catholic my husband may not have objected although I cannot be sure. You sound like a serious Catholic and I am sure you will pray for the courage to make the right decision.

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