My child is badly behaved at mass :(

[EasterJoy]

Actually, in post # 60, Fatherof12 confirmed that he did in fact mean spanking the child before mass as a “warning shot”. He went on to say that it would not be appropriate for every child, and that it could possible cause the child to dread Mass if it were done all the time. So it really is what he meant. (Although, Fatherof12, if you are reading, even though I disagree with you on some things, you seem very fair-minded and are certainly a great dad! We can agree to disagree! )

At any rate, EasterJoy, I totally agree with you that kids and situations vary so widely, that you have to make expectations clear with children, and that they go through different phases that impact behavior and the ability to be still and quiet. I think as parents we just have to do the best we can at the various stages and places with our children and not beat ourselves up too much when our tots won’t be still!

I have known many families of ten or more and many families who used spanking, but I’ve never heard of a child getting a corporal signal on the same Richter scale as a punishment spank, only used as a warning against something he or she is not doing yet.

Fatherof12, by “warning shot”, are we talking about a locker-room level swat that says not “take that!” but rather “Game’s On!”? Otherwise, I’m puzzled concerning how that even works.

 

[EasterJoy]

and that child could be next bishop, or priest… just go with the flow and don 't force children or teens to do anything they don’t want to do. please dont make them go to church. they only stop going the minute they can so why prolong it. what right do adults have to enforce anything especially onto teens. Let them be. If they don’t want to go this week, don’t make them. why do they need to go just to keep you happy?

There is no necessary part of a child’s schedule, whether it is eating, sleeping, or going to church or school, that ought to be dispensed with for no other reason than that a child doesn’t happen to feel like doing it. The truth is, there is no one in an entire household who doesn’t have things to do that must be done even on the days they don’t feel like doing them. Can a child learn that too young?

So while I agree that you are wise to avoid forcing a family member to fulfill an obligation in one way when there is a more agreeable option that would meet the obligation just as well, I can’t agree that expecting all members of the household to meet their actual obligations falls under the category of “just to keep you happy.”

A better question is this: how, in good conscience, can we allow a child (or teen) to come to expect that it is his or her job to please no one but him or herself in no other moment than the present? I’m not saying that a child ought to be taught to ignore his or her own inner impulses entirely, doing only what everyone else wants to do, but still! A person who incorporates the kind of self-centeredness and shortsightedness into their thinking that says “if I don’t feel like it at the moment, then I don’t” is doomed to be unhappy.

 

[rhiannonh]

Rhiannonh,

I’m curious if I’m misunderstanding you or if you actually believe a child should never be forced to go somewhere or do something the don’t want to and should not be disciplined?

they shouldn’t be forced to go to church is what i say. My priest has two older children, 19 and one a bit older. the younger being quite anti God with her own experiences. the older being older knows when to show for family moral support or somthing. The priest before him son didn’t show. And the one before that the yonger came along but the elder didn’t want to know. None of them are forced to come to church

so yes on the point of view of church which is what this thread is about,they shouldn’t be forced to go. After all ‘you’ soon stop going if you disagreed with it all wouldn’t you. So why make children, teens be forced to keep their parents ‘happy’

 

[rhiannonh]

There is no necessary part of a child’s schedule, whether it is eating, sleeping, or going to church or school, that ought to be dispensed with for no other reason than that a child doesn’t happen to feel like doing it. The truth is, there is no one in an entire household who doesn’t have things to do that must be done even on the days they don’t feel like doing them. Can a child learn that too young?

So while I agree that you are wise to avoid forcing a family member to fulfill an obligation in one way when there is a more agreeable option that would meet the obligation just as well, I can’t agree that expecting all members of the household to meet their actual obligations falls under the category of “just to keep you happy.”

A better question is this: how, in good conscience, can we allow a child (or teen) to come to expect that it is his or her job to please no one but him or herself in no other moment than the present? I’m not saying that a child ought to be taught to ignore his or her own inner impulses entirely, doing only what everyone else wants to do, but still! A person who incorporates the kind of self-centeredness and shortsightedness into their thinking that says “if I don’t feel like it at the moment, then I don’t” is doomed to be unhappy.

Am talking about church here not their whole life. Honestly. If they don’t want to go then don’t make them. Let them stay home this week. Talk about. You wouldn’t go to church if you didn’t get something from it so why make another!

 

[FatherOfTwelve]

I have known many families of ten or more and many families who used spanking, but I’ve never heard of a child getting a corporal signal on the same Richter scale as a punishment spank, only used as a warning against something he or she is not doing yet.

Fatherof12, by “warning shot”, are we talking about a locker-room level swat that says not “take that!” but rather “Game’s On!”? Otherwise, I’m puzzled concerning how that even works.

Yes to “Games On”! My one daughter whom we had to use this tactic like I said was very stuborn and hard-headed, But also VERY joyful, playful , mischevious, easily excited (some may say HDDD or whatever the acronym is), all rolled into one little ball of energy. So,

Here’s how it would go down…
Bend down to her level, “Honey, we are going into the Church now, please”…BUT DADDY did you see Fr. , and the geese outside and the the birds, and OH! there’s Cindy my friend :bounce: Daddy can I go to her house after Church, OH! I need to go to the bathroom, and can we have icecream for lunch? Dad, WHACK! “Honey! NOW LOOK! We are going into Church!!! You are going to behave!” Yes Sir…

It’s all about bringing her to “FOCUS” Where we are, what we are going to do, etc. IKNOW every parent has been in this situation with at least ONE of their kids.
I just verbalized (Written) it.
Peace,
FoT

 

[FatherOfTwelve]

Yea and my spel’n stincks:shrug:

 

[EasterJoy]

Am talking about church here not their whole life. Honestly. If they don’t want to go then don’t make them. Let them stay home this week. Talk about. You wouldn’t go to church if you didn’t get something from it so why make another!

Well, no, actually, I do go to church when I don’t feel I’m going to get something from it, just like I go to a lot of things when I don’t think I’m going to get something from it. There are other people who benefit from having me there. I need to be there for them and I need to experience them being there for me, too.

Yes, sometimes people stray and come back, but the Catholic faith isn’t a “me and Jesus” religion. It is a “we and Jesus” religion. We are not only bound to worship together on Sundays when it is a realistic possibility, but to encourage others in the Body of Christ to do the same. I have violated that rule, but I have never violated that rule to my profit. The truth is, I violated it to my great peril. I am thankful that I did not fall away for good.

This is why St. Paul said in answer to this very old question:* “Therefore, brothers, since through the blood of Jesus we have confidence of entrance into the sanctuary by the new and living way he opened for us through the veil, that is, his flesh, and since we have “a great priest over the house of God,” let us approach with a sincere heart and in absolute trust, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed in pure water. Let us hold unwaveringly to our confession that gives us hope, for he who made the promise is trustworthy. We must consider how to rouse one another to love and good works. We should not stay away from our assembly, as is the custom of some, but encourage one another, and this all the more as you see the day drawing near. If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”* Heb. 10:19-27

That is not to say you always ought to force a child go to church when they are not obliged. It is to say that this is a matter for you to decide as a parent, and not something that should ride on the whim of the child. That is a very bad precedent.

 

[StarFireKK]

Am talking about church here not their whole life. Honestly. If they don’t want to go then don’t make them. Let them stay home this week. Talk about. You wouldn’t go to church if you didn’t get something from it so why make another!

What about if they don’t want to eat their veggies? Or do their homework? Or go to bed on time? Or tell the truth? Or respect someone else’s property?

I’m sure to you I am being silly but to a Catholic attending Mass on Sunday is more important than all the things I listed above.

Besides it is a parent’s job to help a child build good habits. Letting a child skate their duty because they don’t feel like it hurts their sense of responsibility and work ethic.

 

[SheaWilson]

I don’t understand… I thought children loved Mass. I heard on Immaculate Heart Radio with Patrick Coffin, when he had a guest. She said children, “…just don’t want to leave.” And, Jesus tells us to be like children… I’m going to go on a long-stretch here and say something you may not like… Don’t be offended. Maybe it’s because your husband isn’t practicing in full faith according to the Catholic Church, or maybe it has something to do with home life. This is just a guess. I hope I don’t madden anybody or the OP. I’m actually quite hesitant to post this, but if I am wrong, then I will know.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

Someday your little one will be grown up and won’t misbehave in church and you will miss that little one sometimes and think a fit or two is worth it

 

[StarFireKK]

they shouldn’t be forced to go to church is what i say. My priest has two older children, 19 and one a bit older. the younger being quite anti God with her own experiences. the older being older knows when to show for family moral support or somthing. The priest before him son didn’t show. And the one before that the yonger came along but the elder didn’t want to know. None of them are forced to come to church

so yes on the point of view of church which is what this thread is about,they shouldn’t be forced to go. After all ‘you’ soon stop going if you disagreed with it all wouldn’t you. So why make children, teens be forced to keep their parents ‘happy’

I just saw your posted religion. At first I was very shocked to read your priest has two children.

But anyways, you just have to understand Catholics view Mass very differently than most other Churches do. You don’t have to like it or agree with it but you should understand you are going to be hard press to find a Catholic (especially on this forum) who will say it is “okay” to miss Mass.

It is funny you say teenagers should be able to choose. I have several siblings who are no longer practicing Catholics and when we have family gatherings, everyone still attends Mass (but not Communion). They use to do it because no one wanted to have to explain to my mother what they thought was more important than attending Mass and worshiping God. If someone had the nerve to say to my mom “Well, I don’t believe in God?” she would just say “Well, consider it insurance.”

 

[mini_me640]

I don’t understand… I thought children loved Mass. I heard on Immaculate Heart Radio with Patrick Coffin, when he had a guest. She said children, “…just don’t want to leave.” And, Jesus tells us to be like children… I’m going to go on a long-stretch here and say something you may not like… Don’t be offended. Maybe it’s because your husband isn’t practicing in full faith according to the Catholic Church, or maybe it has something to do with home life. This is just a guess. I hope I don’t madden anybody or the OP. I’m actually quite hesitant to post this, but if I am wrong, then I will know.

I assume you have no children . Just because someone on a Radio show said that children love Mass doesnt mean that a 2 year old in real life has the attention span to sit through anything that involves being still and quiet for an hour or more. Have you ever been around a toddler? They tend to want to explore and play - they are not really able to reflect and absorb as an adult would. My husband and I are happily married practicing Catholics and we have the same issues with our kids although the one almost turnIng 3 is finally getting to the point of being able to make it through Mass with minimal disruption. Older children (like 6 or older) have much better ability to appreciate Mass as they have better attention spans and can understand more about what’s going on.

When Jesus said to be like children, any parent could tell you he didn’t mean toddlers . Plus Jesus was referring to having childlike trust I think, not childish behavior.

 

[rhiannonh]

I just saw your posted religion. At first I was very shocked to read your priest has two children.

But anyways, you just have to understand Catholics view Mass very differently than most other Churches do. You don’t have to like it or agree with it but you should understand you are going to be hard press to find a Catholic (especially on this forum) who will say it is “okay” to miss Mass.

It is funny you say teenagers should be able to choose. I have several siblings who are no longer practicing Catholics and when we have family gatherings, everyone still attends Mass (but not Communion). They use to do it because no one wanted to have to explain to my mother what they thought was more important than attending Mass and worshiping God. If someone had the nerve to say to my mom “Well, I don’t believe in God?” she would just say “Well, consider it insurance.”

naturally it is in response to the opening post of this whole thread and trying to encourage that you go to heaven because God lets you in. He doesn’t use the same judgement criteria as we all do because he loves us. So if you are only going to Mass for insurance purpose of getting into Heaven. Then isn’t that a sin in itself? You not going because you want to, because you love God but because you want to get to heaven.

Hmm going to mass for insuring your way into heaven is a sin itself

 

[rhiannonh]

I don’t guess I do, and I guess my children are just outright abnormal… After all using disipline has never stopped them from wanting to do anything else, I’ll take them to the doc immediately for a mental exam. Thank you

don’t be soft… the doc will take one look at them and say they’re normal.

there is absolutely no need to discipline children with physical violence no matter how soft the slap may be.

they know their barriers and you can discpline them by making them earn the things they love. making sure they keep some things they love otherwise it gets too much

 

[cemiller]

don’t be soft… the doc will take one look at them and say they’re normal.

there is absolutely no need to discipline children with physical violence no matter how soft the slap may be.

they know their barriers and you can discpline them by making them earn the things they love. making sure they keep some things they love otherwise it gets too much

I just disagree with you. There was a new study done that I heard about (sorry don’t have a link, so you can take this or leave it) that showed that the students that teachers usually noted as the best behaved came from families that used spanking as one tool of many for discipline. I’m not saying that all parents should spank, but it is a valid form of discipline. I got spanked, my brother and sister got spanked. My mother and father were both spanked as kids. None of us have lasting side effects from being spanked. We weren’t abused, we were disciplined; and for the most part, it worked.

 

[cemiller]

naturally it is in response to the opening post of this whole thread and trying to encourage that you go to heaven because God lets you in. He doesn’t use the same judgement criteria as we all do because he loves us. So if you are only going to Mass for insurance purpose of getting into Heaven. Then isn’t that a sin in itself? You not going because you want to, because you love God but because you want to get to heaven.

Hmm going to mass for insuring your way into heaven is a sin itself

I agree with this. Just going to Mass is definitely not going to help if some one is doing it just for “insurance” I really don’t think that was what the mother was probably really meaning though. She was probably hoping that her children might catch the meaning of a homily one day and feel God’s tug on their heartstrings… Just my guess though

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I agree with this. Just going to Mass is definitely not going to help if some one is doing it just for “insurance” I really don’t think that was what the mother was probably really meaning though. She was probably hoping that her children might catch the meaning of a homily one day and feel God’s tug on their heartstrings… Just my guess though

You should not be agreeing with this non-Catholic POV. The poster is being disrespectful of the Catholic faith, which you are studying to enter. Catholics are obligated to go to Mass weekly unless there are true obstacles to attending, such as being in travel at the time, or illness. Having a young child does not automatically exempt us from that obligation, especially since most churches have a cry room or child care, and the parents can take turns being with the child at home and go to separate Masses if necessary. The children are not under the same obligation until they reach the age of reason.

We do not attend Mass for “insurance.” It is the Lord’s Supper which he commanded us to celebrate.

 

[MissRose73]

My mother took me and my sister to Mass from the time we were babies. I have no idea how she did so at times as my younger sister was much more challenging behavior wise & required more supervision. Children who are taken to Mass even from a very young age can learn from it even if its small bits at a time.

I am not a parent myself but I’d rather see and/or hear a parent (or other adult in charge of them) make a genuine effort to calm their child(ren) in church, compared to those who ignore their children’s antics. I have to remain charitable in my thoughts at those times even if a child’s screaming may be giving me a migraine headache.

The few times I have attended Mass with my sister’s kids, they are generally well behaved for the most part but they are pre-teens now, and have been taught well by my mother (who takes them most of the time) & a few others even if most of the people in their lives are not much into church going.

 

[EasterJoy]

naturally it is in response to the opening post of this whole thread and trying to encourage that you go to heaven because God lets you in. He doesn’t use the same judgement criteria as we all do because he loves us. So if you are only going to Mass for insurance purpose of getting into Heaven. Then isn’t that a sin in itself? You not going because you want to, because you love God but because you want to get to heaven.

Hmm going to mass for insuring your way into heaven is a sin itself

I think the “insurance” comment was tongue-in-cheek.

Still, using religious observance as fire insurance is like going to Grandma’s for Thanksgiving only because you don’t want to be left out of the will. Grandma can see through that kind of motivation, and so can God. Still, it is better to go to Grandma’s only to stay in her good graces than to stay at home because you know Grandma won’t punish you for not showing up. If your decision-making includes either train of thought, you really need to check your attitude.

If a child is questioning his or her faith, though, it is better to surround him or her with good people who really believe it.

 

[Rob_in_Oregon]

I haven’t read all the posts, but I wanted to offer this:

This situation won’t last forever. My son was an absolute 2-year-old terror sometimes at mass. Once, when I tried to discipline him during the liturgy, he made a fist and smashed me in the eyeglasses (Don’t worry, I’m okay). He’s now a devout Catholic 16-year-old who loves the faith and can’t get enough of theology and apologetics.

I know this is a difficult time for you. Hang in there; God sees your struggle and effort. It’s Good Friday now; Easter is coming. I believe you’ll be able to laugh about this when it’s over. My son and I do.

• Rob in Oregon