J
Joe_5859
Guest
That sounds like a very good plan. I’m sure they would have great insight for you.
- Status
E
exnihilo
Guest
I’ve encountered a variety of priests. As you point out there is a huge difference in not liking the style of a priest and a priest who teaches and promotes error.
As for reporting if you do then you do need to be prepared for any consequences, including emotional. A lot of bad things happen because good people remain silent. Then again only you can know if you can handle it. And I don’t mean that in a condescending way. There are plenty of things I can’t handle. Pray and seek advice as you plan to.
As for reporting if you do then you do need to be prepared for any consequences, including emotional. A lot of bad things happen because good people remain silent. Then again only you can know if you can handle it. And I don’t mean that in a condescending way. There are plenty of things I can’t handle. Pray and seek advice as you plan to.
P
Prodigal_Son
Guest
No, it doesn’t help explain. The official teaching of the Church goes against what you are saying. “Disordered” describes dispositions; “wrong” describes actions. You cannot describe a disposition as wrong.
And it does not justify acting on SSA to say that SSA is not wrong, no more than it justifies adultery to say that my attraction to Kate Upton is not wrong.
D
Debbie_Kono
Guest
Really? Where is this taught in the Church? I’ve been under the impression that any sinful “disposition” is to be worked on and rooted out. Isn’t that what it takes to become a Saint? Or are we all Protestants now who simply believe that we are nothing more than snow covered dung?
R
Rau
Guest
When you say “wrong”, are you saying that to experience SSA is morally wrong - a sin? The CDF (Cardinal Ratzinger) disagrees.
CDF: Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons
See point 3 in particular, where he writes:
“Although the particular inclination of the homosexual person is not a sin, it is a more or less strong tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil; and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.”
Such a “disposition” (if it exists) would not be a good thing. But there is no moral evil solely on the basis of the inclination. I need to make a choice contrary to love of God and neighbour to sin.
Perhaps your analogy is better recast like this: If I have an “unchosen disposition” to be sexually attracted (to the opposite sex), is that wrong? No. But if I (choose to) lust, yes, it is. Lust is a choice, a “human act” - something which can be morally assessed. Attraction to the opposite sex, or to the same sex, is not.
Catechism on the Morality of Human Acts
"1749 Freedom makes man a moral subject. When he acts deliberately, man is, so to speak, the father of his acts. Human acts, that is, acts that are freely chosen in consequence of a judgment of conscience, can be morally evaluated. They are either good or evil. "
This is what the Church prescribes:
Chastity in the homosexual context
"2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. "
Last edited:
P
Prodigal_Son
Guest
See the quotations from Rau above.
But I agree with you that sinful dispositions aren’t things we want to hold onto. I’m more than open to any effective advice anyone might have about how I can cease being attracted to men. But the advice has to be effective. Saying that I’m wrong for feeling this way about men is not effective. in my experience. Saying that I have a disposition toward sin helps direct my guilt toward the right things – sins – not toward the wrong things – temptations.
C
Cruciferi
Guest
As a “man of the west" and descendant of Númenóreans, I’m blessed with a long life. I’m only 120 years old 
B
Bruised_Reed
Guest
Then you would miss the good ol’ days. 
L
Lovinglight
Guest
100% agree with your sound advice.
O
on_the_hill
Guest
And if they refuse to go into the confessional, have them thrown out onto the street.
Mark121359
Well-known member
Yes. The most sound advice that the OP could possibly receive.R_H_Benson:
100% agree with your sound advice.
E
exnihilo
Guest
I don’t think it is fair to suggest this priest may be homosexual. I don’t deny a problem, but there is no cause to suggest this priest is homosexual.
L
Livenotonevil
Guest
+Hereiam
Didn’t Saint Paul say “In the Church, there is no Jew nor Gentile, slave nor free, male or female?”
Why would you need to segregate the community in such a way that it seems like you are trying to advocate for moral despondency?
Didn’t Saint Paul say “In the Church, there is no Jew nor Gentile, slave nor free, male or female?”
Why would you need to segregate the community in such a way that it seems like you are trying to advocate for moral despondency?
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Maybe because the people coming to pray would like to have a space and time to do so where they don’t have to run into people making judgmental remarks about the “moral despondency” of having people like them praying?
L
Livenotonevil
Guest
Am I being judgmental? How is the term “moral despondency” judgmental?
I’m a grave sinner too - in fact, when it comes to lust, I am still in the chains of Asmodeus - but what makes them special?
The fact that you have to create “special community” for a “special type of sinner” is a foolish endeavor, because
A. Rather than having your community deal with the reality that those people are human beings who sin like the rest of the community does, you segregate them and isolate them to their own island.
B. By hosting these special events, you put up a flag inviting swarms of heretics to try to ruin the community.
C. The fact that you have such services suggests to those people that they can’t live a happy or healthy lifestyle ever again, or change who they are (if that’s possible - I know some people can, some people cannot).
What if I hosted a “Gangster Mass,” only for individuals making slightly above minimum wage and who have murder on their record?
Christ is a Physician of the Soul - He’s not a community organizer.
I’m a grave sinner too - in fact, when it comes to lust, I am still in the chains of Asmodeus - but what makes them special?
The fact that you have to create “special community” for a “special type of sinner” is a foolish endeavor, because
A. Rather than having your community deal with the reality that those people are human beings who sin like the rest of the community does, you segregate them and isolate them to their own island.
B. By hosting these special events, you put up a flag inviting swarms of heretics to try to ruin the community.
C. The fact that you have such services suggests to those people that they can’t live a happy or healthy lifestyle ever again, or change who they are (if that’s possible - I know some people can, some people cannot).
What if I hosted a “Gangster Mass,” only for individuals making slightly above minimum wage and who have murder on their record?
Christ is a Physician of the Soul - He’s not a community organizer.
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself
Patron
How do you know they are “sinning”? They may very well be living a chaste life while struggling with their temptations. Having a same-sex attraction is not a sin if you don’t act on it.
The mere fact that you start with that assumption that they’re “special sinners” is pretty revealing.
Last edited:
H
Hereiam
Guest
There is no indication of segregation of the LGBTQ community from others, this is only an example of serving the LGBTQ community, nobody said that the Vespers were limited to LGBTQ and that others could not attend.
And, although your quote by St Paul cannot be disputed, Jesus at the Last Supper spoke, himself, on the need for us to serve others. And indeed the gospel is full of references to serve the marginalized, which in those days were the poor, the orphan, the widow, yet today includes the undocumented immigrant alien, and the LGBTQ.
Employing your logic would call for the end of parish small group ministries including women’s prayer groups, the Knights of Columbus, and multi or bi-lingual Masses.
And, although your quote by St Paul cannot be disputed, Jesus at the Last Supper spoke, himself, on the need for us to serve others. And indeed the gospel is full of references to serve the marginalized, which in those days were the poor, the orphan, the widow, yet today includes the undocumented immigrant alien, and the LGBTQ.
Employing your logic would call for the end of parish small group ministries including women’s prayer groups, the Knights of Columbus, and multi or bi-lingual Masses.
Last edited:
E
ErraticFaith
Guest
People would be naive to think that’s it isn’t just an excuse for propaganda.
The church is constantly compromising its ideals to suit the changing times. I’m surprised people try and claim anything to the contrary.
Their faith is weak and they lack the courage to tell people what they are doing is wrong. A pretty simple concept.
Whether or not you accept the apologetic of ‘accepting everyone’ and trying to be political with the idea. The reality is that one or two views don’t matter.
The growing opinion is that the church happily welcomes homosexuality (supported by documentation or not hardly matters to the layman) and beyond now, in many places could be argued to support it. In a similar vein to the constant battle for female clergy.
If it were me, I’d have the crusaders throw them out with the rest of the trash. I have love for all people, and understand sin and struggle very well. But the house of God is no place for watery semantics.
If the church really wanted to address the flaw of LGBT it would do so directly. What we have is ‘tolerance’ born of public majority support. The church is going to have no effect on these people or come close to making them think they are ‘sinners’. That’s ridiculous.
These people are ingrained in being what they are. Want to change the church to accept that; And everyone is affraid to comment to the contrary.
The church is constantly compromising its ideals to suit the changing times. I’m surprised people try and claim anything to the contrary.
Their faith is weak and they lack the courage to tell people what they are doing is wrong. A pretty simple concept.
Whether or not you accept the apologetic of ‘accepting everyone’ and trying to be political with the idea. The reality is that one or two views don’t matter.
The growing opinion is that the church happily welcomes homosexuality (supported by documentation or not hardly matters to the layman) and beyond now, in many places could be argued to support it. In a similar vein to the constant battle for female clergy.
If it were me, I’d have the crusaders throw them out with the rest of the trash. I have love for all people, and understand sin and struggle very well. But the house of God is no place for watery semantics.
If the church really wanted to address the flaw of LGBT it would do so directly. What we have is ‘tolerance’ born of public majority support. The church is going to have no effect on these people or come close to making them think they are ‘sinners’. That’s ridiculous.
These people are ingrained in being what they are. Want to change the church to accept that; And everyone is affraid to comment to the contrary.
Last edited:
L
Livenotonevil
Guest
If they are not sinning, then why do they need same-sex services?
And the clear intention of such services is to try to legitimatize moral heresy that goes against what Saint Paul said, as you point out, just in order to “feel comfortable” with the wretched times.
Communities surrounded around one’s sins “defining who they are” is a blasphemy against God. Once again, should we start communities and Masses for rapists? After all, it’s not a sin if they don’t act on it!
I argue that the “LGBTQ” community is no community - its a sect of sinners trying to justify their immoral behavior.
And the clear intention of such services is to try to legitimatize moral heresy that goes against what Saint Paul said, as you point out, just in order to “feel comfortable” with the wretched times.
Communities surrounded around one’s sins “defining who they are” is a blasphemy against God. Once again, should we start communities and Masses for rapists? After all, it’s not a sin if they don’t act on it!
I argue that the “LGBTQ” community is no community - its a sect of sinners trying to justify their immoral behavior.
Last edited:
M
Miguel25
Guest
I wonder if the bishop knows that
- Status