"My church isn't spiritually fulfulling." Baptist

[josie_L]

I was born and raised in the Conference Baptist churches.

First of all, Baptist churches are NOT liturgical. So when Protestants say that the Catholic Church does the same thing week after week, of course they know that you do different Bible passages, different hymns, etc. But the ORDER OF SERVICE is the same, and yes, that is a whole lot easier on the priest to plan things. You will never (hopefully) see the homily moved to the beginning of the Mass so that there will be more time for the choir mini-concert at the end of the Mass, and the next week, the homily will be totally left out so that the puppet team can perform the mission program that they will be taking over to Ethiopia, and the week after that the Communion will be held at the beginning of Mass so that everyone will be able to watch the slide show of the Ethiopan mission trip after Communion.

But that’s the way Baptist churches work.

In Baptist churches, every single worship service is different. One week you might see a drama with no sermon at all. The next week, you might see a concert followed by an evangelical “tent-meeting style” sermon and altar call. Another week you might have a Question and Answer format.

It’s basically like planning a theatrical season, only many Baptist churches have two or more worship services on Sundays (and some are doing Saturday evening services now), so you will have anywhere from 52 to 156 “services” to plan. And they ALL have to be different.

That’s not counting all the missions conferences (usually a service every night of the week), the prayer conferences (usually at least three nights during the week), the Christmas/Easter cantata and other special Christmas/Easter services, and all of the weddings and funerals (which also are never liturgical).

And remember, in a Baptist church, if your sermon is not at least a half hour to 45 minutes long, you are NOT a good preacher.

And ALL of these services should be “different!” Nowadays, it is considered very bad when a church service is exactly the same week after week. “Variety” is the keyword in planning worship services. Keep the congregation on the edge of their seats. Don’t ever let them become “complacent,” (like those Catholics down the block!).

So please, Catholics, cut Protestants some slack here. I’ve been Catholic now for five years, and I play piano, and frankly, it’s soooooo easy to do Masses compared with the huge production process that is necessary to put on a good worship service week after week, month after month.

You can see why Baptist ministers “burn out.” Eventually, you just run out of ideas for making things “different.”

Saying one has the same service over and over again is not the same as saying one has the same structure in which the service is rendered over and over again. Allis was malinformed concerning what the CC Mass is, and she was malinformed about our priests as well. I don’t take to kindly to people who assume what our services are like and yet have probably never been to one.

If indeed she meant what you say she meant then all she has to do is answer our posts to correct us, otherwise what she (literally) said stands.

So please Cat cut us Catholics some slack.

 

[josie_L]

You have to understand that most baptist pastors do not stay with the same church for more than eight or ten years and with good reason.

No, you have to understand that priests don’t stay above 5 years with one congregation, some even leaving their loved ones behind (a great sacrifice) to preach the Word of God elsewhere (like impoverished countries).

A pastor wishes to see his congregartion grow spiritually.

As opposed to a priest who wishes his congregation to grow in numbers only.

Unlike catholic priest that say the same thing service after service,

I must be hallucinating then, because although Mass is structured, homilies in my Church are colorful and indicative of thoughtfulness and realistically sermonized for our times.

Baptist pastors (God bless them)

while priests are not.

have to perpare three or four sermons a week, 52 weeks a year.

And while they spend much of their time on preparing sermons, what do they do for the poor? See how condescending that sounds.

So to prevent stagnation they will move to another Church.

By stagnation do you mean boredom?

Maybe this has happen to your co-workers church

Maybe it is.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Well…I was hoping someone would tackle this one…any volunteers?

I’ll get to it after I listen to Scott Hahn’s “Four Pillars of the Church.”

 

[pismopal]

allischalmers doesn’t seem to have a reply to the numerous responses to his hit and run post…

 

[kalt]

sounds like you are going on how you feel reather than on what is taught. You will never find a perfect church. What the church believes is far more important that what they do. Right doctrine should lead to right actions. Orthodoxy leads to orthopraxy. Read Col. 1:9-15. be careful that you are making the right choice here when you say you want to leave. Action by a few are not a sign that the whole church feels this way. Have you talked to the Pastor about how you feel?

Was this written to me? The Baptist person who is trying to find a new Baptist church is a co-worker. I’m Catholic.

 

[Cat]

Thanks again for explaining what it looks like from the “outside”. I have been Catholic all my life. Not only that, I have been in Catholic schools all my life, 1st grade through college.

I don’t think God will grant me enough time to read all the Doctors of the Church, or the lives of all the saints…so that I can learn what is it like “humbly walking with God”…

I do notice that many people, [of all faiths], ask me to pray for them. Strangely, even when I say I pray the Rosary & the Divine Mercy Chaplet and I see them “wince”…their next statement is “please, pray for me”… When I explain something “Catholic” [just for clarity’s sake, I never try to convert anyone out of respect], they always, ALWAYS, answer…“but Everything [the music, the service, the prayer] in the Catholic church is SO DEAD”… I almost feel like replying: “so, why are You asking ME to pray for You, then?” Where do you think I “recharge” my batteries? At the Sacraments & the Liturgy & the Adoration Chapel & the Rosary/Divine Mercy Chaplet…none of those things feel “dead” to me! They give me LIFE! No exorbitant, dramatic “performance” needed…

What is it that looks “SO DEAD”? I am always left speechless… because I can’t possibly answer to something that alien to me. Or, they something to the effect that I should go to their church to meet Jesus and have a “personal” relationship with Him…what other type of relationship can persons have? If I don’t even know Jesus, How come they ask ME to pray for them? [much less have a relationship that allows me to intercede for others?]

I am always SO concerned that I might sound offensive, because I’m SO “lost” when they say something regarding Catholicism…the misunderstandings run so deep!

Thanks for explaining what it looks like from the “other” side

You sound like someone that the Holy Spirit is using in a powerful way to draw people home to Jesus and to the Catholic Church. When people see you, they see someone that Jesus listens to, and that’s why they ask you to pray for them.

I’m guessing that when you finally get to heaven, many people will run up to you and thank you for living out your faith and helping them to see the truth and beauty of the Catholic Church.

Before my husband and I became Catholic, we met many wonderful Catholics who, without knowing it, helped us to see that Catholics are truly Christians. Perhaps we met you at some point!

Keep letting God use you. God bless you in this work.

 

[MarkBrown]

This is what a co-worker told us recently. He is a Baptist, and is switching to another Baptist church because the one he’s going to doesn’t fulfill his spiritual needs.

I don’t get it. If he’s going to another church of the same denomination, and everyone professes the same faith, same doctrine, what’s going to be different?

If he weren’t a co-worker, I would have talked about it with him. Politics, religion and work don’t mix well.

Are any Baptists here who can explain what he meant and how he will find what’s missing in on Baptist church in another Baptist church.

As a former Baptist…not too much. Baptists change churches for many reason Catholics change parishes. I don’t like the priest, Latin Rite…not for me, guitar…ok lets go there, more programs for the kids…etc etc etc. I actually know Catholics that will not go to a parish due to the priest and other reasons listed. May not be you, but there are catholics like baptists. While baptist churches can and are in many cases centered around the personality of the preacher/minister, so can catholic churches. A parish here lost many families when a very loved Nun and Priest left and the Priest replacing was very business like and cold. A downtown parish is growing by leaps and bounds because the Priest is a GREAT Priest. I only go to the Stations of the Cross if he is the priest, he takes his time and very reverent and prayful. The priest who helps him, well the Stations are like a sprint to the meal afterwards!

Now for Baptist and Catholics that could never think of leaving the church or parish all this sounds very strange. As it should be! It is not about the programs and the priest, but the Word made Flesh.

My two cents…

 

[kalt]

YES!

My in laws are Baptist, I have 3 uncles that are Baptist preachers and I’m surrounded by all Baptist neighbors. None agree 100% on what they believe. A couple brief examples…Some view Baptism as symbolic only, others see it as washing away their sins. Some believe OSAS, others believe that they can fall from grace. The only thing they do agree on is…Wine was actually grape juice and to drink actual wine is a big no-no.

This is only my personal experience. I can’t speak for the other groups of Baptists because there’s many more that are not in my area.

This probably explains it. I wonder if he disagrees with something being tuaght at the church he’s going to now.

BTW, beliefs, not believes. I really do know the difference.

 

[Cat]

Saying one has the same service over and over again is not the same as saying one has the same structure in which the service is rendered over and over again. Allis was malinformed concerning what the CC Mass is, and she was malinformed about our priests as well. I don’t take to kindly to people who assume what our services are like and yet have probably never been to one.

If indeed she meant what you say she meant then all she has to do is answer our posts to correct us, otherwise what she (literally) said stands.

So please Cat cut us Catholics some slack.

josie L, allischalmers has been a member of these forums since 2005. You have been a member since 2008. I have been a member since 2004.

Oh, and I am Catholic. Please read my profile.

allischalmers knows what the Mass is like. I think you reading a bit too much into his post. He is not ignorant.

Perhaps he worded his post in a confusing way. He is correct to say that the priests “say the same thing over and over.” Not totally correct–what he meant to say is that the Catholic Mass is liturgical. But just because he didn’t word it like that doesn’t mean that you have to jump on him.

josie L, Baptist churches are not liturgical. Please read my earlier post for an accurate description of what Baptist pastors have to do to put on a worship service. It’s very difficult, and allischalmer’s point is that Baptist ministers often run out of creative ideas for presenting yet another new and different worship service.

 

[Cat]

josie_L:
This whole post is quite unfair. You are putting words into allischalmer’s mouth. He never said all these things that you imply that he said. And you can’t read his thoughts.

 

[Cat]

Quoted (cut and paste) response by josie L:
Originally Posted by allischalmers
You have to understand that most baptist pastors do not stay with the same church for more than eight or ten years and with good reason.

No, you have to understand that priests don’t stay above 5 years with one congregation, some even leaving their loved ones behind (a great sacrifice) to preach the Word of God elsewhere (like impoverished countries).

A pastor wishes to see his congregartion grow spiritually.

As opposed to a priest who wishes his congregation to grow in numbers only.

Unlike catholic priest that say the same thing service after service,

I must be hallucinating then, because although Mass is structured, homilies in my Church are colorful and indicative of thoughtfulness and realistically sermonized for our times.

Baptist pastors (God bless them)

while priests are not.

have to perpare three or four sermons a week, 52 weeks a year.

And while they spend much of their time on preparing sermons, what do they do for the poor? See how condescending that sounds.

So to prevent stagnation they will move to another Church.

By stagnation do you mean boredom?

Maybe this has happen to your co-workers church

Maybe it is.​

josie L, this whole post is quite unfair. You are putting very unkind words into allischalmer’s mouth and making him sound quite awful. You cannot read his mind and know his thoughts. And if you have read other posts of allischalmers over the years, you would know that he has no evil motives and is not anti-Catholic. Quite the contrary.

It is good of you to defend the Catholic Church, but it is not good to condemn others for things that they are not guilty of.

 

[MarkBrown]

You have to understand that most baptist pastors do not stay with the same church for more than eight or ten years and with good reason. A pastor wishes to see his congregartion grow spiritually. Unlike catholic priest that say the same thing service after service, Baptist pastors (God bless them) have to perpare three or four sermons a week, 52 weeks a year. So to prevent stagnation they will move to another Church. Maybe this has happen to your co-workers church

As a former Baptist minister and now Deacon in the Anglican Church I can look at both sides.

Your statement is false in many ways as follows:

1. At my baptist seminary, New Orleans Baptist Seminary, I learned where to go on the web to down load fully prepared sermons. Learned it from other students and staff.
   As I was very calvinistic, I was shocked, dismayed that one would hold the word of God so cheaply.
2. Baptist pastors save their sermons and retread them ever so often. Especially if moving to another church. I still have all of mine (100’s) in binders etc. Yes your pastor does it too.
   3)We, Baptist Pastors, use to joke you know it is time to leave when you have preached all your sermons!
   4)Yes the liturgy is the same week after week, Thanks be to God. The sermons are not and the songs/hymns are not. Baptist churches cycle through the same hymns, the hymnal I have on my desk has 666 songs in it…wait 666 songs…glad I am no longer a dispensationalist, not all are sung in a year, two or three. People have their favorite songs and the song leader/worship leader better know it. All the spontaneous prayers have many of the same words and phrases. As a pastor if I called on Bro Mac to pray, I knew about 50% of his prayer before he opened his mouth, Bro Cleve almost 100%.
3. I preach weekly in the parish I supply for. Yes I have my readings from the prayer book and base my homily on the gospel (usually). I still have to prepare, make visitations, perpare for classes, help with the College ministry, food ministry, work my secular job, study for my seminary classes (yes back in seminary per my Bishop…and a Catholic one at that!), help out at my home parish. Oh yes I have a wife and 5 kids so lets factor that in.

As you are retired, go to several Catholic services. They usually have daily Mass with a sermon, so a priest may have to prepare 365+ sermons a year. More than the 208, using your data. Go to a Mass and watch, participate as allowed and learn. No you maynot become a Catholic, but it should take away misinformation you have about the Catholic Church.

God Bless.

Dcn Mark

 

[MarkBrown]

The homely that your priest uses is not prepared from the Bible but from the teaching magesterium of the church. On the other hand the pastor of a Bible/Baptist church uses onlt the Bible God Word and that alone for his message. He prepares it himself using sound exegesis and hermenuetics.

You know not what you say!

The scripture readings are straight from the Bible. The sermon is based
upon the scripture readings.

Is the priest taught how to prepare a sermon? yep. In a seminary.
Is a baptist/bible preacher taught how to prepare for a sermon? yep.
In a seminary, just not the same one. Or a Bible School.
Very few do not have any training, God help the congregation is
they don’t.

Also, many baptist pastors use commentaries etc from the Baptist
greats of today and yesterday. Just like the Catholic Priest. But they
have a long list to pull from!

Before believing the stuff you wrote, why not sit down with a Catholic
Priest and talk with him and find out how he prepares for a sermon.

 

[Cat]

One possibility that the OP has to remain sensitive to is that some sort of “scandal” is happening in the co-worker’s church. E.g., a sexual sin, money problems, divorce, drugs or other addiction, an open hostile conflict between two church members, etc.

The OP should be discreet and not ask. Knowing won’t help the situation.

These scandals are horrible for the church members. If this is happening, it’s no wonder the co-worker wants to find another church. It’s so emotionally-draining for everyone.

 

[deb1]

The homely that your priest uses is not prepared from the Bible but from the teaching magesterium of the church. On the other hand the pastor of a Bible/Baptist church uses onlt the Bible God Word and that alone for his message. He prepares it himself using sound exegesis and hermenuetics.

My priest certainly does teach from our scriptural readings. I know, I am there every weekend.

The way that you are using the word magesterium is confusing to me. I should hope that my priest would not teach anything against our faith. Is that what you meant?

 

[Sunflower15]

To Deacon Mark,

Thanks so much for your post. I like learning from different perspectives, since I’m Catholic since birth.

I wanted to ask you why do you go to a Catholic seminary? Are there other non-Catholic seminarians/deacons as well?

I also wanted to mention that when I was a child, I went to Catholic school but on Sundays, I went to an Episcopalian Mass with a friend.
[My parents did not go to church at all…and I wanted to go.]
My friend went to the same school as I, but on Sundays went to Episcopalian worship because her mom was Catholic and her dad Episcopalian, and that was their arrangement until all 4 kids were 18, then all of them chose Episcopalian.

At any rate, the Mass was similar. Maybe things had different meanings, but looked similar.

I also wanted to ask you something.
I used to go to communion in that church. I asked their priest if I could, explaining I was Catholic. He said so were they…and that I could…so I did. Every week
I just realized that a Catholic priest would probably disagree on that one, right?

Thanks for your post.

 

[Sunflower15]

The homely that your priest uses is not prepared from the Bible but from the teaching magesterium of the church. On the other hand the pastor of a Bible/Baptist church uses onlt the Bible God Word and that alone for his message. He prepares it himself using sound exegesis and hermenuetics.

Maybe you really meant something else and instead we’re understanding that you think priests don’t preach from the Bible.
Because they actually do, every day, 365 days a year! They read to us from the Bible, or someone else does, and then, they preach & teach from that Scriptural passage, which rotates until we have heard and been taught/preached the entire Bible…not a single line missing! [it takes about 3 years]

In regards to the teachings of the Magisterium…well, we don’t want a priest to “make up” something. The role of the Magisterium is to guide all teachings to stay within the Biblical precepts [taking the WHOLE Bible, not a particular section they like better], in light of the centuries of tradition that includes the Apostles, the Early Church, the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, the Saints, and especially the main character, God - Father, Son & Holy Spirit in relation to His people.

I fail to understand why anyone would think that a pastor, any wonderful pastor out there, would be better able to prepare a sermon than a wonderful priest, following the Magisterium’s guidance, using the same Bible…

 

[elvisman]

The homely that your priest uses is not prepared from the Bible but from the teaching magesterium of the church. On the other hand the pastor of a Bible/Baptist church uses onlt the Bible God Word and that alone for his message. He prepares it himself using sound exegesis and hermenuetics.

This is, without a doubt - the most ignorant and immature argument I’ve ever read on these forums - and that is saying a lot.

What evidence do you have that every priest gets his sermons (holimies) from the “Catholic Playbook”?

Secondly, what is the “Bible God Word”?

---

Lastly, show me 2 Protestant minsisters (let alone the thousands that exist) who think exactly alike and give the same message on Sunday.

UNbelieveble . . .

 

[josie_L]

josie L, allischalmers has been a member of these forums since 2005. You have been a member since 2008. I have been a member since 2004.

Oh, and I am Catholic. Please read my profile.

allischalmers knows what the Mass is like. I think you reading a bit too much into his post. He is not ignorant.

Perhaps he worded his post in a confusing way. He is correct to say that the priests “say the same thing over and over.” Not totally correct–what he meant to say is that the Catholic Mass is liturgical. But just because he didn’t word it like that doesn’t mean that you have to jump on him.

josie L, Baptist churches are not liturgical. Please read my earlier post for an accurate description of what Baptist pastors have to do to put on a worship service. It’s very difficult, and allischalmer’s point is that Baptist ministers often run out of creative ideas for presenting yet another new and different worship service.

I know you are Catholic Cat, I never said otherwise, however, I stand by what I said.

P.S. I read your posts, but I wonder if allischalmers has read ours. Do you think he’ll respond anytime soon?

 

[josie_L]

Quoted (cut and paste) response by josie L:
Originally Posted by allischalmers
You have to understand that most baptist pastors do not stay with the same church for more than eight or ten years and with good reason.

No, you have to understand that priests don’t stay above 5 years with one congregation, some even leaving their loved ones behind (a great sacrifice) to preach the Word of God elsewhere (like impoverished countries).

A pastor wishes to see his congregartion grow spiritually.

As opposed to a priest who wishes his congregation to grow in numbers only.

Unlike catholic priest that say the same thing service after service,

I must be hallucinating then, because although Mass is structured, homilies in my Church are colorful and indicative of thoughtfulness and realistically sermonized for our times.

Baptist pastors (God bless them)

while priests are not.

have to perpare three or four sermons a week, 52 weeks a year.

And while they spend much of their time on preparing sermons, what do they do for the poor? See how condescending that sounds.

So to prevent stagnation they will move to another Church.

By stagnation do you mean boredom?

Maybe this has happen to your co-workers church

Maybe it is.​

josie L, this whole post is quite unfair. You are putting very unkind words into allischalmer’s mouth and making him sound quite awful. You cannot read his mind and know his thoughts. And if you have read other posts of allischalmers over the years, you would know that he has no evil motives and is not anti-Catholic. Quite the contrary.

It is good of you to defend the Catholic Church, but it is not good to condemn others for things that they are not guilty of.

If I am putting unkind words into his mouth then let him say so.