"My church isn't spiritually fulfulling." Baptist

[josie_L]

The 1 Cor. 3 passage does mention purgatory. It is referring to roewards after salvation the we get for faithful service. These rewards can be lost but no our salvation.

The Final Purification, or Purgatory

1030 All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary **to enter the joy of Heaven. **

1 Corinthians 3: 11-15

For no one can lay foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work. If what he has built survives, he will receive his rewards. If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

This passage speaks of one being saved but nevertheless purified through fire. Where do you think this is happening if not in Purgatory?

The Rev. 21 verse does not refer to purgatory either. This passage says nothing about purgatory. It makes a statment about those whoe names are written in the book of life and those whoes names are not.

The first words of Rev 21:28 “Nothing impure will ever enter it. . .”

By “it” we can infer Heaven, correct, as such if nothing impure can be allowed to enter its domain, what say you to a little purification before admittance, as it is understandable that most die with some residue of sin still attached to them.

Context is very import my friend when understanding a pasage of scripture.

Yes, context matters my friend.

The Lk passage says nothing about purgatory either. If the lLuke passage is talking about purgatory then those who go there can never leave it. Luke 16:26-27

Where are they DLClark? In Hell, I don’t think so as Abraham is seen embracing Lazarus, are they in Heaven, no, for Jesus had not yet died on the cross and/or resurrected (hence the reason they could not leave). How about Sheol, do you think they are in Sheol, i.e., purgatory?

26’And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, **so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ **NASU

Yes, because in Sheol the righteous and unrighteous (obviously not bad enough to warrant Hell) were waiting (although separated by a chasm) for the Lord wherein “he preached to spirits in prison” 1 Peter 3:19.

You have just made my point. If tradition of your church are from God the Bible will support them. Purgatory is no found in the Bible.

You have not contradicted nor argued against purgatory. In fact, in stating what you did I was more able to clarify my position. Thanks.

Jesus did not say that we could pray to anyone else but to Him alone. We have one mediator between God and man and that Christ.
1 Tim 2:5-7
5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.
NASU

“But asking one person to pray for you in no way violates Christ’s mediatorship, as can be seen from considering the way in which Christ is a mediator. First, Christ is a unique mediator between man and God because he is the only person who is both God and man. He is the only bridge between the two, the only God-man. But that role as mediator is not compromised in the least by the fact that others intercede for us. Furthermore, Christ is a unique mediator between God and man because he is the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15, 12:24), just as Moses was the mediator (Greek mesitas) of the Old Covenant (Gal. 3:19–20).”

“The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something “good and pleasing to God,” not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.”

John 14:13-14
13 " Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.
NASU

John 15:16-17
so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.
NASU

John 16:23-24

" In that day you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you.
NASU

I have already mentioned in the above passages that praying to or for others does not disqualify Jesus as mediator.

The Jn 20 passage does not say that we have to go through priest to have our sins forgiven. It just talks about what the Apostles would be able to do. We have no apostles alive today. 1 John 1:8-10 tells us that if we confess our sins to God He will forgive them and restore us to fellsowhip. No sin sends a Christian hell except unbelief.

Apostolic succession as refered to in Acts 1;15-26, 1 Thessalonians 2:6,7

 

[Sunflower15]

Again the Bible does not support the false idea of praying to Mary. So this tradition is not from God or we would find it in the bible.

Too many points make it impossible to reach any TRUE communication…we don’t have to convince each other, but we are called to commune in some way for we are all Christians. Can we please go with one or two things at a time?

Mary, well…the simplest way to put it is that if I were sick right now, I would ask all of you to please pray for me, and you would probably do, right? Well, so does she…and she is very close to Jesus in Heaven, as she was on Earth…can we at least come to that middle ground?

 

[Cat]

This thread has gotten very OT. I plead with everyone to get it BACK on topic and to take the various debates to other threads.

When my husband and I started investigating Catholicism, we met with a fascinating couple in our parish (they’ve since been on The Journey Home and several radio shows, and done some presentations at Catholic Family Conferences).

One thing the wife said stuck with me. She said that while they were Protestant (her husband was a pastor), they were always interested in “all things Catholic.”

It’s almost as if they were being “drawn” home to the Catholic Church.

When I read the OP to my husband, he said essentially the same thing I did–“Sounds like that co-worker is kind of interested in the Catholic Church, but doesn’t want to admit it.”

I think a lot of Protestants go on the Church Hop and seek a church where they will be “fed” or “fulfilled” because they are subconsciously searching for the Catholic Church (but they don’t realize that). They want to be “Catholic” because that’s the Church that Jesus established, and since Protestants follow Jesus and the same Holy Spirit dwells in them (because of their baptism), of course they will be tugged towards Catholicism.

We really need to be sensitive to this, and when Protestants seem curious about or antagonistic towards Catholicism, we need to listen to what they’re REALLY saying, which is, “Please tell me more about the Catholic Church. I’m longing for it, but I haven’t realized that yet.”

 

[Sunflower15]

…

One thing the wife said stuck with me. She said that while they were Protestant (her husband was a pastor), they were always interested in “all things Catholic.”

It’s almost as if they were being “drawn” home to the Catholic Church.

…

Cat, I have a question regarding this “being drawn to all things Catholic”. I am surprised, in the sense that it almost seems to me that all “things Catholic” offend Protestants…I mean not only that they disagree.

Because I have to say that personally, I disagree and feel quite uncomfortable with some things Protestant, particularly Evangelical, such as their loudness and over dramatization of pretty much everything, and their exaggerated condemnation of ___[fill in the blank, gays, alcoholics, whatever] over and over again during a service. Now, it stops there. A disagreement and discomfort…nothing more. They are still my fellow Christians in baptism.

However, throughout the years, I have had many friends of different denominations, [though they all seem the same to me, they think there are worlds of difference between them] These friends are OFFENDED by things Catholic. How offensive can a cross possibly be? Or a medal of the Sacred Heart? I don’t get it! I won’t even get to Mary or the saints, who I don’t understand how they can be offensive either…but let’s not go so far and stay within Jesus. So, they disagree with wearing medals and crucifixes, ok. Why get offended and feel the need to say something about the images,etc?

I am happy that someone finds these Catholic things, attractive. I’m neither Jew nor Orthodox. However, I find Eastern Orthodox icons attractive. I have NOTHING against them. I find interesting how the Star of David has intercrossing triangles, one pointing above, one pointing to us…interesting! Not offensive at all!

My question is, do you know what is it that makes them wince at these things Catholic? And, do you find it more the norm that they don’t or that they do feel drawn to these things?

It helps to read how things look from the outside looking in…
Thanks!

 

[rolltidefan]

The thing I have never understood with this forum is…of course I do have to understand it is a Catholic forum…but the Catholics here get so uptight when it is said that we disagree or “question” some of the things that are Catholic. It is always, we as Protestants are being disrespectful and uncharitable. Have any of the Catholics here read back over some of the things and statements that are said about Protestants?? I agree with you there are some Protestants here that are very rude and I personally don’t like their attitudes either. HOWEVER, I have seen just the same amount out of alot of Catholics here also. Now, I am not saying that either side should not state what they believe, but there is a way that it can be done Christlike and with the love that Christ told us to have one for another. Just because Protestants come on here wanting to know certain things does not mean they are being disrespectful and it also does not mean they have a hatred for the Catholic church because they disagree. We as Christians need to understand one another. Also alot on here will say if you want to learn more about the Catholic church you need to stop believing what you hear and start reading and you bear false witness to state somethings…well there is a lot said on here about Protestants and certain protestants beliefs that I have NEVER heard said in church before…so does that make some of you guys on here false witnesses also??

Also just want to make a statement to Cat…I came here because I ended up marrying a Catholic. I have never been “drawn” to anything other than Christ himself and I get everything that I need out of my church that I attend. I came here because the beliefs are so different and I wanted to understand what my husband beliefs here. But I am 35 years old and up to the point of marrying a Catholic, I never have been “drawn” to learning any of this, because I have been perfectly content with my beliefs in what I believe and I know that I am on the right track. So, just because someone is here does not mean they are not getting what they need from their church and they are here for that. Alot of times it is just wanting to even learn about different religions. I go to many other Christian forums also that are Protestant…there are ALOT of Catholics that come there, am I to assume that they are looking or being “drawn” to that and away from the Catholic church??

Anyway, this is just 2 cents for what it is worth. I just wish that as Christians that both sides could be a little more tolerant and Christlike. God Bless You All.

 

[Ahimsa]

Also just want to make a statement to Cat…I came here because I ended up marrying a Catholic.

Hmmm…why did you end up marrying a *Catholic??? *There must be some, subconscious desire within you to be Catholic, don’t you think?

 

[Bill_Pick]

Apostolic succession as refered to in Acts 1;15-26, 1 Thessalonians 2:6,7

YOUR WORDS “No sin sends a Christian hell except unbelief” YOU JUST MADE ME RIGHT ABOUT MY THREAD ON OSAS===so you are saying I believe and murder some one I will still go to heaven----please keep this b tween me and you and do not tell my wife.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Hmmm…why did you end up marrying a *Catholic??? *There must be some, subconscious desire within you to be Catholic, don’t you think?

Don,t put that on him I,m Cathloic and got married to a Baptist for about 17 years and we had kids and the romance was over.–shame

 

[graceandglory]

kalt:
I think it all comes down to faith and morals. When you have a preacher centered service, if he isn’t teaching the faith and Christian morals, then someone would say they aren’t being spiritually fulfilled. Another way to say it is they "aren’t being spiritually fed."

 

[rolltidefan]

Hmmm…why did you end up marrying a *Catholic??? *There must be some, subconscious desire within you to be Catholic, don’t you think?

You are kidding me right?? We actually ended up together because we both met because we lost siblings. He lost his sister and I lost my brother. We were part of a support group for sibling loss. It sure had nothing to do with religion that either was attracted to each other. I can assure you it was not because he was at my church or I was at his.

 

[Sunflower15]

…

Anyway, this is just 2 cents for what it is worth. I just wish that as Christians that both sides could be a little more tolerant and Christlike. God Bless You All.

I do agree with you in that just because one wishes to learn about a religion doesn’t necessarily mean one wants to convert. I also agree that all Christians should be more “charitable” and understanding, and respectful of each other.

I am not sure what “scares” us about one another…and I use that word because the reaction one sees sometimes seems only justifiable by fear. One thing that I noticed is that each of us seems to use a certain language, almost like a “code” that means something to us, but to the other, it means something completely different…and then communication simply stops.

I wonder if we did an experiment, trying to refer to our beliefs by using new words or expressions…not the “usual” ones…maybe the concepts themselves won’t be so far off our mutual beliefs!

And if we did this, then we would know what to say when someone casually mentions to us that they are “looking around” as that co-worker did…without feeling that we are going to be taken as trying to “convert” them…since we believe that would only be achieved by God.

btw, How nice that your husband and you are able to love each other regardless of religious differences! And, that you are making an effort to learn what his beliefs are! If you have specific questions, I encourage you to start a new thread and ask.

 

[kalt]

I do agree with you in that just because one wishes to learn about a religion doesn’t necessarily mean one wants to convert. I also agree that all Christians should be more “charitable” and understanding, and respectful of each other.

I am not sure what “scares” us about one another…and I use that word because the reaction one sees sometimes seems only justifiable by fear. One thing that I noticed is that each of us seems to use a certain language, almost like a “code” that means something to us, but to the other, it means something completely different…and then communication simply stops.

I wonder if we did an experiment, trying to refer to our beliefs by using new words or expressions…not the “usual” ones…maybe the concepts themselves won’t be so far off our mutual beliefs!

And if we did this, then we would know what to say when someone casually mentions to us that they are “looking around” as that co-worker did…without feeling that we are going to be taken as trying to “convert” them…since we believe that would only be achieved by God.

btw, How nice that your husband and you are able to love each other regardless of religious differences! And, that you are making an effort to learn what his beliefs are! If you have specific questions, I encourage you to start a new thread and ask.

That doesn’t seem to work. I’ve tried to get someone, anyone, to explain OSAS to me, and few respond. When they do respond, they either don’t know what they believe or they are at a loss to explain it.

All they seem to understand is that once they believe in God, they are saved, once and for all.

When you bring sin into the mix, they don’t know what to say about it.

I think the difference on that one point between Catholics and many Protestants is that Catholics have a well-formed, specific, detailed, and bible-based position on Salvation.

We have explained the difference between redemption and salvation, but the Protestants here don’t even respond to that point when its made.

It’s not about Protestants’ misunderstanding Catholic terminology, or Catholics’ refusal to understand Protestant terminology.

To be honest, when discussing salvation on this forum, it’s about Protestants’ refusal to hear.

Catholics can’t understand what Protestants refuse to or can’t explain. It leaves many of us, I’m sure, believing that many Protestants don’t really know why they believe what they believe. (If you can’t explain your belief on salvation so it makes sense, do you really understand it yourself?)

If a Protestant wants to start another thread and explain their terminology on salvation, I will be very happy to read it. It’s not that Catholics here aren’t very willing to hear you. It’s that when we ask a direct question about salvation and sin, you sidestep it.

And to be honest again, this is what happens with most questions to Protestants on this forum.

I don’t see this with the Jewish and Muslim posters here. When asked a direct question, they answer it.

 

[Cat]

That doesn’t seem to work. I’ve tried to get someone, anyone, to explain OSAS to me, and few respond. When they do respond, they either don’t know what they believe or they are at a loss to explain it.

All they seem to understand is that once they believe in God, they are saved, once and for all.

When you bring sin into the mix, they don’t know what to say about it.

I think the difference on that one point between Catholics and many Protestants is that Catholics have a well-formed, specific, detailed, and bible-based position on Salvation.

We have explained the difference between redemption and salvation, but the Protestants here don’t even respond to that point when its made.

It’s not about Protestants’ misunderstanding Catholic terminology, or Catholics’ refusal to understand Protestant terminology.

To be honest, when discussing salvation on this forum, it’s about Protestants’ refusal to hear.

Catholics can’t understand what Protestants refuse to or can’t explain. It leaves many of us, I’m sure, believing that many Protestants don’t really know why they believe what they believe. (If you can’t explain your belief on salvation so it makes sense, do you really understand it yourself?)

If a Protestant wants to start another thread and explain their terminology on salvation, I will be very happy to read it. It’s not that Catholics here aren’t very willing to hear you. It’s that when we ask a direct question about salvation and sin, you sidestep it.

And to be honest again, this is what happens with most questions to Protestants on this forum.

I don’t see this with the Jewish and Muslim posters here. When asked a direct question, they answer it.

I think a lot of this depends on the Protestant.

In the 1970s, a lot of Protestant churches changed the way they did Sunday school for kids. I grew up doing a “survey” of the entire Bible, from 1st grade on through 8th grade. It was taught like school, with homework assignments and workbooks and required memory of Bible verses. It was pretty tough and definitely not entertaining. I really enjoyed it because I was one of those geeky brains who loved getting perfect scores and and doing all my homework. But many kids hated it and a lot of kids dropped out of church after 8th grade. At any rate, by the time we finished 8th grade, we had been through the entire Bible.

But many churches stopped doing this “school approach” in the 70s and started doing a more “needs-based” “current” approach. I can remember singing a lot, and getting into small groups and talking over various current topics. Our church youth group still did a high school “Bible study,” but it was not so much teaching as it was discussing the Bible.

The younger kids went from doing homework to making mobiles, dressing up in Bible costumes and doing skits, doing crafts, etc. in their Sunday school classes.

Along with that change came a change in confirmation classes and other non-Sunday educational activities for children and young teens. Even though I was Baptist and we didn’t have confirmation, we DID have a “pastor’s class” that children attended up through 8th grade, where we were taught about church doctrine. And the clubs that we attended were more Bible than activity.

But in the 70s, our church and many others stopped having “pastor’s classes,” (kids were too busy to come to them anyway), and a lot of the confirmation classes became somewhat like the Sunday schools–more interactive, less lecture, less homework. VBS was once a “bible school,” but then it became more focuses on “loving the kids” and “giving them a positive experience in church.” (Perhaps it had something to do with the proliferation of divorces in the 1970s–you couldn’t just assume that a child had both a mom and a dad at home anymore). And a lot of the club ministries became more like scouting than Bible clubs.

I’m not criticizing the teaching METHODs. I do think that interactive teaching is so much more interesting than sitting quietly and listening to lectures and filling out workbooks.

Even the ADULT Sunday school classes changed. Many of these classes became more about the “teacher” than the subject.

So what happened is that the very detailed education of Christians stopped in the 1970s. Many kids grew up knowing very little theology and doctrine and Bible. They could list the Top Ten of Christian rock songs, but they didn’t know the Ten Commandments.

So now all THOSE kids are in their 30s and 40s, and they don’t necessarily know a whole lot. Of course there are exceptions; some Christians on their own studied the Bible in depth, along with systematic theology, apologetics, church doctrine, history, etc., and THOSE Christians are the ones that Catholics don’t seem to meet very often! If Catholics DO meet up with those educated Christians, they WILL get very good answers to a lot of their questions about Protestant beliefs.

But all too often, Catholics meet up with people like me who are old enough that we don’t remember what we were taught!–or with people who are younger me who were never taught to begin with.

What I’ve said above is a simplification and generalization, of course. But I’ve actually heard Protestant speakers in seminars describe it pretty much the way I’ve described it above, and plead for Christians (Protestants) to STUDY the tough topics and learn their faith.

 

[DLClark]

Actually, we’ll have to disagree with your interpretation, but as far as purgatory, you might also want to check 2 Macabees 12:46.

Are you going to answer the questions that were posed to you previously?

Have you ever been to a Catholic Mass?
Have you ever asked questions about the Mass?
Have you done any research regarding the Mass?
Why do protestants ignore John 6?

6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Aren’t you ingoring God by ignoring this?

We anxiously await your answer.

Does not the Lk passages say this 26’And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ NASU

What does the Lk passage say? Doesn’t it say that there is chasm that can’t be crossed? Or are you ignoring this fact?
The Apocrypha is not Scripture because it is full of errors. Yes, I have been to a mass and john 6 is not talking about the mass. To eat and dirnk is to be understood metaphrically as faith or believe. You have heard the phrase,“please digest these facts” that is what Jesus is saying. John 6:47 tells us that when we believe we have eternal life. The Bible will not say one thing in one place and something different in another. The Bible is lazor accurate in that faith alone saves us. Eph 2:8-9.

 

[Cat]

The thing I have never understood with this forum is…of course I do have to understand it is a Catholic forum…but the Catholics here get so uptight when it is said that we disagree or “question” some of the things that are Catholic. It is always, we as Protestants are being disrespectful and uncharitable. Have any of the Catholics here read back over some of the things and statements that are said about Protestants?? I agree with you there are some Protestants here that are very rude and I personally don’t like their attitudes either. HOWEVER, I have seen just the same amount out of alot of Catholics here also. Now, I am not saying that either side should not state what they believe, but there is a way that it can be done Christlike and with the love that Christ told us to have one for another. Just because Protestants come on here wanting to know certain things does not mean they are being disrespectful and it also does not mean they have a hatred for the Catholic church because they disagree. We as Christians need to understand one another. Also alot on here will say if you want to learn more about the Catholic church you need to stop believing what you hear and start reading and you bear false witness to state somethings…well there is a lot said on here about Protestants and certain protestants beliefs that I have NEVER heard said in church before…so does that make some of you guys on here false witnesses also??

Also just want to make a statement to Cat…I came here because I ended up marrying a Catholic. I have never been “drawn” to anything other than Christ himself and I get everything that I need out of my church that I attend. I came here because the beliefs are so different and I wanted to understand what my husband beliefs here. But I am 35 years old and up to the point of marrying a Catholic, I never have been “drawn” to learning any of this, because I have been perfectly content with my beliefs in what I believe and I know that I am on the right track. So, just because someone is here does not mean they are not getting what they need from their church and they are here for that. Alot of times it is just wanting to even learn about different religions. I go to many other Christian forums also that are Protestant…there are ALOT of Catholics that come there, am I to assume that they are looking or being “drawn” to that and away from the Catholic church??

Anyway, this is just 2 cents for what it is worth. I just wish that as Christians that both sides could be a little more tolerant and Christlike. God Bless You All.

Of course it isn’t true of all Protestants. I’m only saying that we need to be sensitive. In the case of the OP, the Protestant co-worker actually shared with the OP a spiritual lacking and journey. Why? Why would they go to a Catholic instead of a trusted Protestant friend? I think there is something going on here. It sounds like the OP has a sensitive heart and will handle the situation with grace and love.

 

[BareKnuckler]

This is what a co-worker told us recently. He is a Baptist, and is switching to another Baptist church because the one he’s going to doesn’t fulfill his spiritual needs.

I don’t get it. If he’s going to another church of the same denomination, and everyone professes the same faith, same doctrine, what’s going to be different?

If he weren’t a co-worker, I would have talked about it with him. Politics, religion and work don’t mix well.

Are any Baptists here who can explain what he meant and how he will find what’s missing in on Baptist church in another Baptist church.

All churches are different, no matter what denomination, their is different attitudes to each, or at least, that is what I have percieved out of the churches I’ve visited.

Not all baptists are under the same rules/leaders, their is the SBC, and then their is others, some are non-denom but call themselves a Baptist church.

I am a ex-baptist, and all Baptist churches are different, that is why when I see some people on here talking about baptists, I don’t reply cause they usually never get that just cause 1 church says one thing doesn’t mean the same for another church. If the church I was baptized at said “Gays go to hell” that doesn’t mean the baptist church I used to go to with my grandpa’s says the same.

 

[DLClark]

Dear DL Clark…that is a pretty generalized statement…without saying exactly [or approximately at least] what part of the Tradition is in opposition [in your opinion] to the Scriptures that Tradition produced, it borders on breaking the 8th commandment [the one about bearing false witness with the intent to harm] that we are ALL bound by.

It seems to me like you heard this somewhere and simply accepted it at face value without inquiring. Not only sad, but actually sinful when you “let it out” and do false witnessing…

St. Irenaeus, I believe from the 3rd century, is a wonderful example of what the Church throughout history has protected and remembered, he mentions the Catholic [universal] Church by name.

The Council of Nicaea, in 325, produces the formula for the Trinity. That word is NOT in the Bible…Do you believe in the Trinity? Then, you believe in the Tradition of the Catholic Church…because belief in the triune God, three persons in one Godhead - Father, Son & Holy Spirit, comes from that council, not Scriptures.

Now, would you please give us at least one or two examples, [as I have done, it’s only fair], why you believe that Tradition counters the Bible it compiled?

It does not matter what history says or does not say. History is not the judge as what is true Scripturally. the bible is. Here are three areas where the Bible and tradtions are not in agreement.

1. Praying to Mary is not supported in the **
   **ible. We have only one mediator
2. That we need to go to a priest to have our sins forgiven1 John 1:8-10
   A If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
   NASU

Heb 4:14-16

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
NASU

1. That there is such a thing as purgatory. All the believer sins are forgiven them through the blood of Christ. Christ death was the exact payment need for the sins of the world. Whe one accepts by faith the Jesus as Savior that person sins are forgive. That is there is no sin that will ever cause the believer to ose his salvation. At death the believer goes into the presence of God.2 Cor 5:8
   I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
   NASU

1 John 2:12-13

12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake.
NASU

Rom 8:31-33

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33 Who will bring a charge against God’s elect?
NASU

 

[4Squarebaby]

Of course it isn’t true of all Protestants. I’m only saying that we need to be sensitive. In the case of the OP, the Protestant co-worker actually shared with the OP a spiritual lacking and journey. Why? Why would they go to a Catholic instead of a trusted Protestant friend? I think there is something going on here. It sounds like the OP has a sensitive heart and will handle the situation with grace and love.

Why go to a Catholic and not a trusted Protestant friend, or perhaps another member of the home church? Well perhaps we don’t see the big distinction which the fundamentalist among us say exist. We would just be speaking to another brother/sister who is more comfortable worshiping God in a different tradition. Just because one raises his hands while another presses his hands together can be meaningless to the person who initiates the conversation.

 

[Cat]

Cat, I have a question regarding this “being drawn to all things Catholic”. I am surprised, in the sense that it almost seems to me that all “things Catholic” offend Protestants…I mean not only that they disagree.

However, throughout the years, I have had many friends of different denominations, [though they all seem the same to me, they think there are worlds of difference between them] These friends are OFFENDED by things Catholic. How offensive can a cross possibly be? Or a medal of the Sacred Heart? I don’t get it! I won’t even get to Mary or the saints, who I don’t understand how they can be offensive either…but let’s not go so far and stay within Jesus. So, they disagree with wearing medals and crucifixes, ok. Why get offended and feel the need to say something about the images,etc?

My question is, do you know what is it that makes them wince at these things Catholic? And, do you find it more the norm that they don’t or that they do feel drawn to these things?

It helps to read how things look from the outside looking in…
Thanks!

To most Protestants, the “physical” is not “good.” At very best, it is “suspect,” and at the worst, it is sinful.

It is really hard for Catholics to understand this, because they weren’t raised this way. But Protestants, especially evangelical Protestants, are born and raised in a setting that does not recognize the eternal value of the physical.

When I was growing up, I was taught that I should seek to break away from the physical things of this earth and to concentrate on the spiritual things. My body was just a shell, it was my soul that was important. And nothing on this earth was of any eternal significance or importance. Only souls.

Often, we were told at the beginning of a church services, “It’s time to forget about everything else and concentrate on Jesus only.”

This, BTW, is one of the reasons that many Protestants do NOT bring their babies or young children with them into the worship service, and do not like it when others bring babies and young children in with them. You CANNOT concentrate on Jesus alone when you have a baby and small child crawling all over you nursing or asking for a drink or telling you they have to go potty! And the noise that small children naturally make interferes with the concentration on Jesus. That’s why you see very spacious, well-run (usually) well-staffed NURSERIES in Protestant churches, and why some ushers will actually ask parents, “Would you like to take your children to our nursery?” (Often they do not mean this as a question, BTW, they are giving you a very strong hint that you should take your small children to the nursery!) In fact, in some churches, you will read in the bulletin a directive that it is preferred that small children be taken to the nursery.

It’s that separation of physical and spiritual. A small child making physical demands makes it impossible to concentrate on the more important spiritual things. They do not comprehend the melding of physical and spiritual. This is not something that is in their concept of God and Christianity.

I’ve learned since becoming Catholic that this separation of the physical and spiritual is wrong. Jesus is the Illustration of God’s purpose for creating us physical and spiritual. Jesus did not disdain human flesh or the things of this earth, but became incarnate as a human being and lived on earth.

Protestants have a lot of problems accepting the physical. Many Protestants are very abstemious (although not so much anymore), avoiding alcohol, cigarettes, certain foods, and all drugs. They do this to shake off the physical and to concentrate on their soul and spirit.

**So to a Protestant, a physical object of any kind is not capable of having any spiritual value. **

In fact, the physical object takes our eyes OFF Jesus (Who is never present in a real physical way on this earth anymore).

The physical object is often seen as an idol or a channel for Satan to use to obsess or even possess humans.

When it comes to any physical image of God, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit, there is a group of Protestants that will NOT accept images because of the prohibition in the Ten Commandments. J.I. Packer, an extremely popular evangelical teacher and author, is one of the main teachers of this doctrine. To these Christians, the statues and images of Jesus, and even more so, of the Mary and the saints, represent outrageous disobedience to the BIBLE.

As for the crucifix, many Protestants are offended because Jesus has risen from the dead. They feel that a crucifix depicts Jesus as dead. It’s interesting how many Protestants, even though they glibly say, “Jesus died on the cross,” don’t necessarily seem to grasp that truth. I was a teenager at a showing of Godspell back in the 70s. It was the first time I had seen the show, and I said to my boyfriend (who is now my husband)–“What a blasphemy! They depicted God as actually dead!”

And my boyfriend looked at me and said, “Well, He did die. Jesus was God, and He really, truly died.”

It hit me like a brick. I had never really grasped that fact until I saw Godspell. I had just reeled off the sentence without understanding. And I think other Protestants are sometimes the same way about the death of Christ. (I think the Mel Gibson movie was really great to help people understand that God really did die.)

I hope this is helpful. To any Protestants who are reading this, yes, I realize that I am making generalizations. YOU and YOUR CHURCH may have taught something entirely different. I am speaking primarily of the evangelical Protestant churches.

 

[SD_Catholic]

It does not matter what history says or does not say. History is not the judge as what is true Scripturally. the bible is. Here are three areas where the Bible and tradtions are not in agreement.

Once again… it would be best to start a new thread on these subjects… or read some of the threads that have already discussed these in great detail… I can promise you won’t get shorted information by starting a new thread with a title that asks each of these questions individually… plus it is the polite thing to do

SD