My daughter, the reluctant alter server

[Sr_Sally]

Thank You dear maherite1977. My daughter choose to officially resign on Sunday after Mass–after she apologized for not helping out. I gave her an ultimatum–DECIDE–one way or another if you will serve or not. I guess she’s done. Now we know and she will probably not be asked anymore. Seems like the good Lord has other plans for her.

I think that was the best choice. She asked to resign before and then allowed herself to be negotiated into a sub role. Not every job is for everyone. She enjoy doing something more behind the scenes, or simply to participate in Mass as a regular parishioner. Maybe the 2 of you could offer to help with the altar linens?

Our parish usually has a good turnuot for altar servers and we recently had several young men “graduate” after 10 years or service! But I am sure there are others who only serve for a few years.

 

[obadiah]

I really don’t mean to start a war, but doesn’t anyone see a problem with girls serving? Its not as if they can ever be priests… maybe she just sees this isn’t for her as it’s on the lines of a vocation for men.

I agree with jules, I’m not Roman Catholic, But I cannot understand how far the Catholic Church has gone into being Protestantized, female altar servers, layity giving the precious Body and Blood to other laity, what’s next, female priests? femail Bishops? No wonder your Church is in such a mess. What really amazes me is there was not one peep from anybody except jules about this. It is really shocking to me. If I ever thought about becoming Catholic, now I know I would never do so. You have left the Faith of the Fathers. Sorry, but it seems to me that the Catholic Church is becoming more Protestant every day.

 

[chicago]

No wonder your Church is in such a mess.

Just as it has been for the last 2000 years, more or less.

What really amazes me is there was not one peep from anybody except jules about this. It is really shocking to me.

Someone else mentioned it earlier on the thread, also. Most of us chose to overlook it and not get into an argument about something which was not pertinent to the actual topic of a young person who didn’t want to perform a task of service and a parent who found this choice and attitude disappointing. Clearly, the matter at hand wasn’t about whether or not girls should be serving. That’s a debate which is entitled to it’s own thread, as I am certain there are more than a few of around this board.

 

[obadiah]

Just as it has been for the last 2000 years, more or less…

No, just the last 40 years or so. I am Eastern Orthodox, and am very concerned about the reforms, like altar girls.
I think that the daughter in question is hearing the Holy Spirit in this, the mother in question is very wrong. But what do I know? I’m a very traditional minded person.

 

[s4angel]

As a parent myself I can totaly understand your feelings but forgive me for a moment as I point one thing out.

You said yourself that you know she is “Burned out” She is twelve years old. You are an adult how do you feel when you are burned out?

Did she enjoy it at first or untill she was constantly filling in?? Maby she would just like to be at mass and pray and participate as a parishiner does? Like you and I? Instead of being worried if this or that was getting done but instead be a part of the assembly. Maby she just wants to enjoy the mass with out the worry? Do you go to mass with her at other times when she is not always being asked?? Even Jesus had his down time in prayer and except for those who the gift was given did not know about him untill he was 33 or there abouts except for when he was a youngster of about 12 but it was not constant yet. God as our father let him be a child. She is a child on the cusp of young adulthood perhaps if she is not always asked and is allowed to enjoy mass she will want to do it again? She has a lifetime of being asked let her enjoy the mass and learn from it with out the worry.

At least that is my take

 

[obadiah]

As a parent myself I can totaly understand your feelings but forgive me for a moment as I point one thing out.

You said yourself that you know she is “Burned out” She is twelve years old. You are an adult how do you feel when you are burned out?

Did she enjoy it at first or untill she was constantly filling in?? Maby she would just like to be at mass and pray and participate as a parishiner does? Like you and I? Instead of being worried if this or that was getting done but instead be a part of the assembly. Maby she just wants to enjoy the mass with out the worry? Do you go to mass with her at other times when she is not always being asked?? Even Jesus had his down time in prayer and except for those who the gift was given did not know about him untill he was 33 or there abouts except for when he was a youngster of about 12 but it was not constant yet. God as our father let him be a child. She is a child on the cusp of young adulthood perhaps if she is not always asked and is allowed to enjoy mass she will want to do it again? She has a lifetime of being asked let her enjoy the mass and learn from it with out the worry.

At least that is my take

Why is there no outrage about girls serving at the Altar? This is totally scandalous. Or is the Roman Church so totally gone over the edge there is no turning back?

 

[whatevergirl]

If it were ***that ***scandalous…wouldn’t the Pope object to it?

 

[jules11]

If it were ***that ***scandalous…wouldn’t the Pope object to it?

There has been many scandalous things that the Popes have often been silent on.
This, in my opinion is a very bad decision to make…girls cannot be priests and never will be. So why play with fire and tease them? Girls should not be serving. It sends them the wrong message. How many girl altar servers wonder why if they can serve the mass, that they can’t be priests?. It just causes unnecessary problems. I am so surprised that people cannot see that. Pretty obvious to me.

 

[obadiah]

If it were ***that ***scandalous…wouldn’t the Pope object to it?

I think Pope Benedict is sending a VERY strong message when he does not allow female altar servers at the Vatican. But all the liberal Catholics just don’t get the hint. Being Orthodox I have to side with the traditional Roman Catholics and speak up for them if nobody else will defend the Ancient Tradition of the Catholic Church. ( except Papal Domination )

 

[whatevergirl]

I think Pope Benedict is sending a VERY strong message when he does not allow female altar servers at the Vatican. But all the liberal Catholics just don’t get the hint. Being Orthodox I have to side with the traditional Roman Catholics and speak up for them if nobody else will defend the Ancient Tradition of the Catholic Church. ( except Papal Domination )

I still don’t think that the Pope would allow popular opinion to matter in his decisions…in the big scheme of so much happening within the RCC…maybe this isn’t on the top of his radar screen? My daughter used to serve…she doesn’t want to serve at our new parish anymore for some reason. But, she served with great zeal, and humility…graces bestowed upon her by God. A nun actually had asked her some three years ago to serve, not a liberal Catholic.

I think the RCC has bigger fish to fry…which is why the Pope leaves this up to the individual Diocese. For example…I was a EEM in our prior parish as well…and during that time, the Pope no longer wanted the EEM’s to cleanse the chalices. They had to be left for the priests presiding over mass. So…one would have to think that he would take a stance, if he felt that this was important to change. He ordered each Bishop to dictate the cleansing of chalices right down to individual EEM’s…so, why couldn’t he dictate this? He could…he just doesn’t see the significance of it. Maybe another Pope will, but I have yet to see it be that much of a concern at his level within the RCC. I have heard many more lay people complain about it than I have ever heard priests or religious complain over, frankly. lol

Just my thoughts.

 

[Tom317]

I still don’t think that the Pope would allow popular opinion to matter in his decisions…in the big scheme of so much happening within the RCC…maybe this isn’t on the top of his radar screen? My daughter used to serve…she doesn’t want to serve at our new parish anymore for some reason. But, she served with great zeal, and humility…graces bestowed upon her by God. A nun actually had asked her some three years ago to serve, not a liberal Catholic.

I think the RCC has bigger fish to fry…which is why the Pope leaves this up to the individual Diocese. For example…I was a EEM in our prior parish as well…and during that time, the Pope no longer wanted the EEM’s to cleanse the chalices. They had to be left for the priests presiding over mass. So…one would have to think that he would take a stance, if he felt that this was important to change. He ordered each Bishop to dictate the cleansing of chalices right down to individual EEM’s…so, why couldn’t he dictate this? He could…he just doesn’t see the significance of it. Maybe another Pope will, but I have yet to see it be that much of a concern at his level within the RCC. I have heard many more lay people complain about it than I have ever heard priests or religious complain over, frankly. lol

Just my thoughts.

Or, maybe this Pope is taking a one-step at a time approach.

 

[whatevergirl]

Or, maybe this Pope is taking a one-step at a time approach.

When he passes down that girls can/should no longer serve…I will agree with it.

 

[chicago]

I still don’t think that the Pope would allow popular opinion to matter in his decisions…in the big scheme of so much happening within the RCC…maybe this isn’t on the top of his radar screen?

It was a bigger issue before the early 90’s when the Vatican recognized that 1983 Code of Canon Law does not forbid females to serve in such liturgical capacities. Before that it was controversial as no one had ever given formal permission and it was just being widely done (some claimed in disobedience). There is no doubt that a lot of the reason why girls were allowed to serve was to satisfy demands of equality. It is, further, quite clear that a lot of people hoped that this was one small step towards women’s ordination, eventually. To combat this, when the clarification was offerred by Rome it was also noted that there has been a long tradition of reserving this role to boys, the value of doing such still, and the recommendation that pastors and bishops (who have the final say as to who gets to serve) be mindful of this and their judgement be respected.

In practice, however, almost all dioceses and parishes (at least here in the U.S.) have now gone over to having servers of both genders. There are worthwhile arguments for either way of doing things. And, in fact, an argument can be made that neither boys nor girls ought to be the ones serving, but instead formally installed adult males in the ministry of acoltyle.

But it is what it is for now, and while some would argue that it is not an ideal and presents its own problems, neither is it an inherant evil.

 

[whatevergirl]

It was a bigger issue before the early 90’s when the Vatican recognized that 1983 Code of Canon Law does not forbid females to serve in such liturgical capacities. Before that it was controversial as no one had ever given formal permission and it was just being widely done (some claimed in disobedience). There is no doubt that a lot of the reason why girls were allowed to serve was to satisfy demands of equality. It is, further, quite clear that a lot of people hoped that this was one small step towards women’s ordination, eventually. To combat this, when the clarification was offerred by Rome it was also noted that there has been a long tradition of reserving this role to boys, the value of doing such still, and the recommendation that pastors and bishops (who have the final say as to who gets to serve) be mindful of this and their judgement be respected.

In practice, however, almost all dioceses and parishes (at least here in the U.S.) have now gone over to having servers of both genders. There are worthwhile arguments for either way of doing things. And, in fact, an argument can be made that neither boys nor girls ought to be the ones serving, but instead formally installed adult males in the ministry of acoltyle.

But it is what it is for now, and while some would argue that it is not an ideal and presents its own problems, neither is it an inherant evil.

Thank you. I like your post. Some could argue the point, and in some ways, I’m not against this argument, that young boys taking a part in altar serving…can have the potential to attract them to the priesthood. But, there is a plethera of reasons why the priesthood is diminishing…I don’t see this being at the top of the totum pole, frankly. lol

Again–if the Pope declares this…I wouldn’t find anything wrong with his decision. He is the Pope, and I respect him. The reasoning behind it by lay people is not convincing for me. I know if the Pope decides against it, he would provide a far better explanation for his decision…and one of course, enlightened by the Holy Spirit.

 

[obadiah]

When he passes down that girls can/should no longer serve…I will agree with it.

It is against the Tradition of both the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches for women to serve at the Altar, and for the Laity to distribute the Eucharist. That’s why we have Deacons.
I myself have received from deacons, it’s their job to help the priest.

 

[whatevergirl]

It is against the Tradition of both the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches for women to serve at the Altar, and for the Laity to distribute the Eucharist. That’s why we have Deacons.
I myself have received from deacons, it’s their job to help the priest.

Why doesn’t the Pope step in? He is not a liberal man, by any stretch…and not afraid of ruffling feathers…so…why doesn’t he change the direction of this then?

 

[obadiah]

Why doesn’t the Pope step in? He is not a liberal man, by any stretch…and not afraid of ruffling feathers…so…why doesn’t he change the direction of this then?

Who knows what goes on inside the mind of the Pope.

 

[whatevergirl]

Who knows what goes on inside the mind of the Pope.

LOL
Are we saying he means to change it, but isn’t? He has no problem mouthing his requests. If he felt the need to change it–he would simply request his Bishops to put the change into practice.

 

[blacktiger057]

I wouldn’t make her, if she didn’t want to. Not all of us are called to service in the sanctuary.

Yeah…my brother was the same way. She probably dreads going to Church as it is right now if she has to alter serve everytime, and she doesn’t even like alter serving. Some people just can’t find the closeness to God they need in a church…they can serve God in many, many other ways. Don’t worry!

 

[obadiah]

LOL
Are we saying he means to change it, but isn’t? He has no problem mouthing his requests. If he felt the need to change it–he would simply request his Bishops to put the change into practice.

Maybe he’s waiting to see what happens with the new/old Latin Mass.