My daughter, the reluctant alter server

[blacktiger057]

It is against the Tradition of both the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches for women to serve at the Altar, and for the Laity to distribute the Eucharist. That’s why we have Deacons.
I myself have received from deacons, it’s their job to help the priest.

But that was 2,000 years ago. 2,000 years ago, we had slaves and women weren’t even represented. That is why only males can be priests, because according to “Ancient Tradition” the people who made the tradition were males. Time means change…I think the Church should start following this saying.

 

[chicago]

Who knows what goes on inside the mind of the Pope.

Reminds me of a joke appropriate for today’s feast of St. Ignatius. There are, it is said, only two things that even God does not know: “How many Franciscans there are in the world and what in the world Jesuits are thinking.”

 

[s4angel]

everyone brought up a good point so I wanted to ask this.

My church allows woman (older females to read the first or second readings) to stand at the alter. the mans role is to be the head and I have yet to see a woman allowed to serve the mass or homily and I hope I never do at first I was shocked and then I just had faith that those appointed to obey and inforce the rules (like the pope) were devinly guided by god in perpetuaty of the first father of the church. Am I wrong??

 

[whatevergirl]

Maybe he’s waiting to see what happens with the new/old Latin Mass.

oh for pete’s sake. HA! You’re too much. That was funny.

 

[obadiah]

Reminds me of a joke appropriate for today’s feast of St. Ignatius. There are, it is said, only two things that even God does not know: “How many Franciscans there are in the world and what in the world Jesuits are thinking.”

 

[obadiah]

But that was 2,000 years ago. 2,000 years ago, we had slaves and women weren’t even represented. That is why only males can be priests, because according to “Ancient Tradition” the people who made the tradition were males. Time means change…I think the Church should start following this saying.

Oh boy, here we go, the cat’s out of the bag. What else do you want to change? Female Priesteses? Married Bishops? Graham crackers and kool aid for Holy Communion? Might as well throw out the 2,000 year old idea of an organized Church. Maybe sit under a tree and sing kum by yah.

 

[s4angel]

Obediah,

You are nuts but where is the line drawn??? Do we not live by faith?? And do we not believe that our church is lead by divinity?? Our Pope is a wonderful man in my opinion, perhaps not infallible but Jesus Christ is infallible so would he not guide his own church?

 

[obadiah]

everyone brought up a good point so I wanted to ask this.

My church allows woman (older females to read the first or second readings) to stand at the alter. the mans role is to be the head and I have yet to see a woman allowed to serve the mass or homily and I hope I never do at first I was shocked and then I just had faith that those appointed to obey and inforce the rules (like the pope) were devinly guided by god in perpetuaty of the first father of the church. Am I wrong??

We have women’s month where the women read the Epistle in March. Boy was I shocked when I first saw that in an Orthodox Church. After about ten years of that, I still cringe when March rolls around.

 

[obadiah]

Obediah,

You are nuts but where is the line drawn??? Do we not live by faith?? And do we not believe that our church is lead by divinity?? Our Pope is a wonderful man in my opinion, perhaps not infallible but Jesus Christ is infallible so would he not guide his own church?

Call me a nutty Orthodox Christian:bounce: but I happen to like Tradition, it makes me feel secure.

 

[obadiah]

oh for pete’s sake. HA! You’re too much. That was funny.

I just wanted to lighten up, because I thought I was sounding too rigid.

 

[whatevergirl]

I just wanted to lighten up, because I thought I was sounding too rigid.

I like your lighter side. But truly…whatever the Pope says goes…I just need to hear it from him to believe it is of that much significance.

 

[obadiah]

I like your lighter side. But truly…whatever the Pope says goes…I just need to hear it from him to believe it is of that much significance.

Thanks. I do tend to get a bit picky (overly so) and you are right to stick with the Pope.
AND… there have been rumours floating around Orthodoxy about Female Deacons taken from the Nuns. So I shouldn’t freak out so much. By the way, how many Orthodox Christians does it take to change a light bulb? CHANGE?!? What is this talk of change?!?

 

[s4angel]

Obediah,

No I meant nuts in a good way. I to like tradition but at the same time I value faith over tradition. There is a line and that line is man was meant to be the head to teach and to lead. Woman as his reflection is meant to back him up to be a helper to support him in his passion as Mary backed up Jesus when she said to do what ever he tells you.

A womans job is not less than a mans just different that is all. As for girls as alter girls I do not see where that infringes on a mans role after all she is not conducting the mass just backing up the leader. she does not teach. or perhaps she does in the way Mary taught us how to be daughters, mothers and sisters.

 

[whatevergirl]

Thanks. I do tend to get a bit picky (overly so) and you are right to stick with the Pope.
AND… there have been rumours floating around Orthodoxy about Female Deacons taken from the Nuns. So I shouldn’t freak out so much. By the way, how many Orthodox Christians does it take to change a light bulb? CHANGE?!? What is this talk of change?!?

that’s great!!!

 

[chicago]

Here are the references which I had in mind in a previous post:

from the official note confirming the permission for women to serve:

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWCOMM.HTM

1. The Holy See respects the decision adopted by certain Bishops for specific local reasons on the basis of the provisions of Canon 230 2. At the same time, however, the Holy See wishes to recall that it will always be very appropriate to follow the noble tradition of having boys serve at the altar. As is well known, this has led to a reassuring development of priestly vocations. Thus the obligation to support such groups of altar boys will always continue.

from John Paul II’s Letter to Priests on Holy Thursday 2004:

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2PR04.HTM

Special care for altar servers

1. In the light of this, dear brother priests, I would ask you, among other initiatives, to show special care for altar servers, who represent a kind of “garden” of priestly vocations. The group of altar servers, under your guidance as part of the parish community, can be given a valuable experience of Christian education and become a kind of pre-seminary. Help the parish, as a family made up of families, to look upon the altar servers as their own children, like “olive shoots around the table” of Jesus Christ, the Bread of Life (cf. Ps. 127:3).

With the help of the families most involved and catechists, be particularly concerned for the group of servers so that, through their service at the altar, each of them will learn to grow in love for the Lord Jesus, to recognize him truly present in the Eucharist and to experience the beauty of the liturgy. Initiatives for altar servers on the diocesan or local level should be promoted and encouraged, with attention to the different age groups. During my years of episcopal ministry in Krakow I was able to see the great benefits which can accrue from a concern for their human, spiritual and liturgical training. When children and young people serve at the altar with joy and enthusiasm, they offer their peers an eloquent witness to the importance and beauty of the Eucharist. Thanks to their own lively imagination and the explanations and example given by priests and their older friends, even very young children can grow in faith and develop a love for spiritual realities.

Finally, never forget that you yourselves are the first “Apostles” of Jesus the High Priest. Your own witness counts more than anything else. Altar servers see you at the regular Sunday and weekday celebrations; in your hands they see the Eucharist “take place”, on your face they see its mystery reflected, and in your heart they sense the summons of a greater love. May you be for them fathers, teachers and witnesses of Eucharistic piety and holiness of life!

 

[obadiah]

Here are the references which I had in mind in a previous post:

from the official note confirming the permission for women to serve:

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWCOMM.HTM

from John Paul II’s Letter to Priests on Holy Thursday 2004:

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2PR04.HTM

Where does the Pope say anything about female altar servers?
I read both documents, the first by the Bishop interpreting the words of the Pope, the second by John Paul II himself. J.P.II never specifically mentions female altar servers, although he uses the generic term children, still, he links altar servers with the ordained priesthood. So that in itself would preclude female altar servers.

 

[Cristiano]

I was out of this thread for a while and I was happy to notice that it took only 36 posts to hijack the topic and start to blast the idea of female altar servers.

I am disappointed that instead of intelligent people trying to discuss the core of the issue that is about how a 12 y/o can feel stressed by serving, we get people that just choose to go over the same topic that has been discussed over and over in hundreds of previous posts.

Some people cannot see further than their nose and they are not able to address different topics. It reminds me of kids that argue with their parents about dessert when they are really asked to choose between beef or chicken at the start of the dinner. Please stay focused on the topic.

 

[obadiah]

I was out of this thread for a while and I was happy to notice that it took only 36 posts to hijack the topic and start to blast the idea of female altar servers.

I am disappointed that instead of intelligent people trying to discuss the core of the issue that is about how a 12 y/o can feel stressed by serving, we get people that just choose to go over the same topic that has been discussed over and over in hundreds of previous posts.

Some people cannot see further than their nose and they are not able to address different topics. It reminds me of kids that argue with their parents about dessert when they are really asked to choose between beef or chicken at the start of the dinner. Please stay focused on the topic.

I read all the posts, and I sure thought it was about female alterservers, I really feel this issue needs to be discussed. It’s time to kick the ultra liberals out and bring back Traditional Catholics and the true standard back to the forefront. Maybe the daughter in question is feeling the Holy Spirit warning her about tresspassing on Holy ground. Something reserved for Men and Boys only, the Holy Priesthood. Thank you very much.

 

[Cristiano]

I read all the posts, and I sure thought it was about female alterservers, I really feel this issue needs to be discussed. It’s time to kick the ultra liberals out and bring back Traditional Catholics and the true standard back to the forefront. Maybe the daughter in question is feeling the Holy Spirit warning her about tresspassing on Holy ground. Something reserved for Men and Boys only, the Holy Priesthood. Thank you very much.

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[obadiah]

Thanks for proving my point.

What, I can’t express my own opinion? The whole point of a discussion about female altarservers is: does it conform to TRADITION? Maybe the daughter felt a reluctence to serve at the altar was because she felt uncomfortable BEING at the altar. We could start another thread, and discuss the merits vs demerits of women serving at the altar, if that’s what you want. I did not intend to hijack this thread, I just wanted to express my opinion about WHY she felt uncomfortable. Peace to you and God bless. Obadiah.